Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Johann]

Continue the quote there . . .

1 Timothy 1:8-11 KJV
8) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11) According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

So then the Law was not given for Jesus, Himself being righteous already. Can we rightfully say it was given for those who have been made righteous in Christ? For me, the answer is no, it was not. These, for me, harmonizes with those passages like, we are dead to the Law.

I just don't see how, as we are in Christ, that our lives are governed by the Law.

Much love!

@marks through the years I have read various interpretations on law and don't claim I'm an expert on this, I've told you I'm still in a process of being "unleavened" from religiosities-still a work in progress, a late-starter, but I accept your correction.
God bless
Johann.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'd like to!

The heartfelt and committed concern and care for another person's wellbeing that comes from God to fill our hearts, and motivates us to help others.

Much love!

Sorry, but I've lost the context for my question. I know you know what "love" is, but I don't recall the reason for my asking this?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Even “Mormons” don’t accept things uncritically. A person being thoughtful in their faith and investigating is always a good thing. Mocking on the other hand shows a lack of thought. No Christian of any denomination needs that.

That's true. There are "researchers" even in the most "spiritual" groups. Some groups place a premium on *not* having an education, though. Cults generally want people to remain in their ignorance and feed off of trust in the leadership.

 

[marks]

1. It is expected that the Christian man will, by confession, clear himself of all suspicion of having his will in his sin.

2. Then God will entirely forgive the sin, and remove it as a hindrance to fellowship.

I believe this is fully resolved by Christ on the cross. If I yet need additional forgiveness from what was already given, how can I say I'm reconciled to God?

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Too true, and that is the whole point I wished to make, as well. Behold seems to want everything involving Salvation to revolve back upon Christ's Cross in the past, completely ignoring our role in accepting that work and our role afterwards in obeying Christ.

The last couple of days I am struggling brother, can't think coherently, just keep on listening to praise and worship music, so I won't comment now.
Personally, I think there is a lot of "miss-communication"
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Continue the quote there . . .

1 Timothy 1:8-11 KJV
8) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11) According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

So then the Law was not given for Jesus, Himself being righteous already. Can we rightfully say it was given for those who have been made righteous in Christ? For me, the answer is no, it was not. These, for me, harmonizes with those passages like, we are dead to the Law.

I just don't see how, as we are in Christ, that our lives are governed by the Law.

Much love!

This passage, however, is not properly understood by many, though I do accept your point, that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect. What Paul is actually saying is not what many Christians think, though, that the Law had no validity in its time, and ceases to be instructive about our own righteousness in the NT period.

Paul is saying that our Covenant relationship with God is now Salvation, and is based on an exquisite righteousness that comes from the sinless Christ. The Law, on the other hand, was designed to show our need for him--not the inability saints have in being able to do good.

The covenant of Law enabled Israel to be righteous, though it could not win for them Salvation. Since we now have Salvation in Christ, why go back to a system designed to show us our need for one who is already among us?

 

[marks]

Sorry, but I've lost the context for my question. I know you know what "love" is, but I don't recall the reason for my asking this?

I don't need a reason, I just like to write about it. But I think it had to do with accountability.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I believe this is fully resolved by Christ on the cross. If I yet need additional forgiveness from what was already given, how can I say I'm reconciled to God?

Much love!

And I concur @marks-why take excerpts of the post?

 

[Randy Kluth]

I believe this is fully resolved by Christ on the cross. If I yet need additional forgiveness from what was already given, how can I say I'm reconciled to God?

Much love!

The Cross is not the end all of Christian living. !st we accept it, and then we have to live it. Certainly in living it we have to look back to the Cross for the basis of our Salvation. But this doesn't mean Christ did it all for us, so that we don't have to do anything ourselves.

On the contrary, in 1 John 2 we read that the Christian proves his Salvation by choosing to be "like Christ." I'm sure you agree we must choose to be "like Christ" even though we received the basis of our Salvation at the Cross?

To live "like Christ" we have to confess what Jesus indicated, that we are sinners in regular need of cleansing. We are purified by his word, but we have to *remain* in him, or abide in his word. That's just what Jesus said, and we must believe that there is some value in showing that we are abiding in him, such as regularly confessing our sins?

 

[Ritajanice]

The heartfelt and committed concern and care for another person's wellbeing that comes from God to fill our hearts, and motivates us to help others.

Amen!!...it’s God who opens hearts to love others....unfortunately if one stays stuck in the flesh, like I did for years, how can he open/ soften our hearts to love, he can’t and he won’t...why....because it’s all about us and our pride,ego,arrogance,etc etc.....there is no glory in that....

We must humble ourselves and put others before us.think lowly of ourselves.....all this puffing up is boring,

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't need a reason, I just like to write about it. But I think it had to do with accountability.

Much love!

I like how you always close your posts with "Much love!"
It really comes across....

 

[Behold]

It is still about YOU. Are you unable to discuss biblical matters without bringing up personal matters -

Being that you are basically re-starting some previous posts of yours, over and over...., let me just go with this next quote by you, as you are not able to actually stay on the Thread's topic... So, as you want me to rabbit trail with you, i'll do it in this post, again, for you Randy Kluth.......by showing you some more of my auto-biography, as this is interesting, also.
You'll see why.

I'm not at all questioning whether you're smart, or whether you have a teaching gift.

Here is the thing Randy.

Most of the forum members, on any Christian forum, are not there or here to learn.
They're not.
They are there or here because they have some Theology in their head and a few topics that are their obsession, and they want to post and post their argument.
That's why they, most, are here........not all are like that.....but most have that issue.
They are not there to learn, but its only to try to enforce their Theological rebuttal....
= They SEE every Thread as "DEBATE TIME".
Not "learn time".
As you know.

So, im not like that. I dont go to Forums to try to WIN.
Im not here to WIN, an argument, or a debate.
My Purpose is not to be here to try to WIN, and most people on forums are trying to argue to win.
Im only here to Teach.
Im here for 3 reasons..

1.) Expose (heretical) Theology that can ruin the faith of a Believer...especially a new Christian.. I want to prevent this from happenting.

2.) I Teach only The Cross of Christ as Your Blood Atonement, (Basic Pauline Theology) so that deliverance from "law keeping" "sin Consciousness".... "confessing" and "trying to stay saved" ....and similar mental/Theological strongholds can be destroyed (torn down), so that the Believer can be delivered into The Grace of God and actually begin their discipleship, as designed by God.

3.) Dial into that occasional one, who reads my Teaching, (Pauline Theology) and a LIGHT goes off in their Spirit, and they begin to hear.
This often happens also to the people who are angry with me. On one hand they are trapped by their cult and theology, but yet, they read what i write and it speaks to their heart, and then they sit in silence and read me, or they keep reading and keep Trolling.

So.......Im just here to do what i do.
Ive helped a whole lot of people escape their cult, that is often not just a denomination, but is a Commentary type of Study that is blocking them from God's Grace or any TRUE Revelation Knowledge.

So, my little story.. for you.

Im on Christianfourms.net.... a couple of years ago, obo.

Im there about 3-4 months and there is this Mod there.....a woman....Reba.
She's also a member of many other forums, but i wont expose her "Alt"., as you might know it., reader.

So, the way some forums work is that you can receive "warnings", and these add up.

Well, one day Reba gives me a "warning".
Her reason?

Ill paraphrase it..

"Fella.... you know more than they do, so, its not fair that you always win the argument.
They should be able to win sometimes, and you dont ever let them win, and then, they pm me, over and over, they keep "reporting" your post, because you wont let them win, and im tired of it, so, im WARNING YOU....
= you now have a warning logged against you". "be more careful".

Now see that?
Imagine that is a MODERATOR....
How does that Happen?

A.) She does not care if Truth is preached, taught, shared, as the Bible is just a "man made" book, in her carnal opinion.
A.) She is not interested in seeing people delivered from theology that has ruined their Walk with God for 40 yrs, till they die, if they are not helped.
A.) She does not care if really bad theology is harming brand new Christians, on her "christian FORUM."
Her only carnal Point of View, is that you're "winning" or not = is what matters on a Christian Forum, and some of her "forum favorites" were not doing so well.

A.) She is not interested in GOD's WORK, at all.

I am.

 

[Johann]

I like how you always close your posts with "Much love!"
It really comes across....

--as much love, accountability, love is not a feeling but an act of the will.
Johann.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe this is fully resolved by Christ on the cross. If I yet need additional forgiveness from what was already given, how can I say I'm reconciled to God?

Exactly....Amen!

 

[marks]

I like how you always close your posts with "Much love!"
It really comes across....

That's for my own accountability. I have to ask myself that question every post I close with . . .

Much love!

Is it?

 

[marks]

@marks through the years I have read various interpretations on law and don't claim I'm an expert on this, I've told you I'm still in a process of being "unleavened" from religiosities-still a work in progress, a late-starter, but I accept your correction.
God bless
Johann.

Just remember, I'm right there with you, just another wayfaring stranger . . .

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Just remember, I'm right there with you, just another wayfaring stranger . . .

Thank you, this means a lot to me, more than you'll ever know.

 

[marks]

Thank you, this means a lot to me, more than you'll ever know.

I'm learning lots of things from you, and not just Scripture (though lots of that), but seeing your character gives encouragment to me!

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Being that you are basically re-starting some previous posts of yours, over and over...., let me just go with this next quote by you, as you are not able to actually stay on the Thread's topic... So, as you want me to rabbit trail with you, i'll do it in this post, again, for you Randy Kluth.......by showing you some more of my auto-biography, as this is interesting, also.
You'll see why.




Here is the thing Randy.

Most of the forum members, on any Christian forum, are not there or here to learn.
They're not.
They are there or here because they have some Theology in their head and a few topics that are their obsession, and they want to post and post their argument.
That's why they, most, are here........not all are like that.....but most have that issue.
They are not there to learn, but its only to try to enforce their Theological rebuttal....
= They SEE every Thread as "DEBATE TIME".
Not "learn time".
As you know.

So, im not like that. I dont go to Forums to try to WIN.
Im not here to WIN, an argument, or a debate.
My Purpose is not to be here to try to WIN, and most people on forums are trying to argue to win.
Im only here to Teach.
Im here for 3 reasons..

1.) Expose (heretical) Theology that can ruin the faith of a Believer...especially a new Christian.. I want to prevent this from happenting.

2.) I Teach only The Cross of Christ as Your Blood Atonement, (Basic Pauline Theology) so that deliverance from "law keeping" "sin Consciousness".... "confessing" and "trying to stay saved" ....and similar mental/Theological strongholds can be destroyed (torn down), so that the Believer can be delivered into The Grace of God and actually begin their discipleship, as designed by God.

3.) Dial into that occasional one, who reads my Teaching, (Pauline Theology) and a LIGHT goes off in their Spirit, and they begin to hear.
This often happens also to the people who are angry with me. On one hand they are trapped by their cult and theology, but yet, they read what i write and it speaks to their heart, and then they sit in silence and read me, or they keep reading and keep Trolling.

So.......Im just here to do what i do.
Ive helped a whole lot of people escape their cult, that is often not just a denomination, but is a Commentary type of Study that is blocking them from God's Grace or any TRUE Revelation Knowledge.

So, my little story.. for you.

Im on Christianfourms.net.... a couple of years ago, obo.

Im there about 3-4 months and there is this Mod there.....a woman....Reba.
She's also a member of many other forums, but i wont expose her "Alt"., as you might know it., reader.

So, the way some forums work is that you can receive "warnings", and these add up.

Well, one day Reba gives me a "warning".
Her reason?

Ill paraphrase it..

"Fella.... you know more than they do, so, its not fair that you always win the argument.
They should be able to win sometimes, and you dont ever let them win, and then, they pm me, over and over, they keep "reporting" your post, because you wont let them win, and im tired of it, so, im WARNING YOU....
= you now have a warning logged against you". "be more careful".

Now see that?
Imagine that is a MODERATOR....
How does that Happen?

A.) She does not care if Truth is preached, taught, shared, as the Bible is just a "man made" book, in her carnal opinion.
A.) She is not interested in seeing people delivered from theology that has ruined their Walk with God for 40 yrs, till they die, if they are not helped.
A.) She does not care if really bad theology is harming brand new Christians, on her "christian FORUM."
Her only carnal Point of View, is that you're "winning" or not = is what matters on a Christian Forum, and some of her "forum favorites" were not doing so well.

A.) She is not interested in GOD's WORK, at all.

I am.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't care for it when Mods cut people off, period. I started on "debate forums" on Usenet in an unregulated forum. I enjoyed it until the trolls completely took over. So I do respect what the Mods have to do, as imperfect as they may be. I sincerely feel for you if a Mod dumped on you without sufficient warrant, but I wasn't there....

I appreciate what you're trying to do, and would support you except for your tendency to see your view of things as "you vs. the world." Being that you're not trying to "win," just try not to get a Martyr's Complex, like so many. And try to quit the condescension. I don't find you smarter than anybody else here. Perhaps you have some knowledge, but that's supposed to translate into patience, kindness, and love. I'm sure you know what I mean? I have to work at it *all the time!!*

 

[marks]

I'm sure you agree we must choose to be "like Christ" even though we received the basis of our Salvation at the Cross?

We must choose to be like Christ if we want to participate in the renewing of our minds. But we don't "must choose to be like Christ" as a part of being reborn, and receiving eternal life. Right?

Much love!