Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Randy Kluth]

That's for my own accountability. I have to ask myself that question every post I close with . . .

Much love!

Is it?

That's why I recognized it--I have to do this all the time, every day! And I certainly wish to encourage this among believers, particularly in places where we have the courage to address difficult subjects that we certainly will disagree on. The hope is that Christ's love will always steer us back to common fellowship in him.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Just remember, I'm right there with you, just another wayfaring stranger . . .

Much love!

A blast from the past: CLICK
Degarmo and Key

 

[Behold]

The Cross is not the end all of Christian living.

My Thread is NOT entitled '"""what is your Discipleship".... Randy.

My Thread is Teaching that by being "in Christ", born again...' we are ETERNALLY Sanctified by Christ....Who is become our "redemption. Justification, Sanctification".

How do you know?
Its "Because GOD has made Him to be so".

1 Corinthians 1:30

= DONE DEAL
= COMPLETED

This is the effect of CHRIST's Redemption as applied to the Believer as "the gift of Salvation" and '"The Gift of Righteousness".

Listen reader.

There is a point in your Faith, when you have to understand that you are "made righteous".... and you dont work for that, because you have become that, for eternity, as a "new Creation in Christ".
Now, the Devil howls against this, because He wants you to be trying to do that for yourself, by confessing sin, and so forth.
However,.....Once you SEE that You are made righteous by The Blood of Jesus and Kept Righteous by the Blood of Jesus, then on that day, you have understood your Salvation as ETERNAL REDEMPTION Through CHRIST and not before that day.....have you understood this yet.

Listen,
When you were saved, you were told that Jesus is your Savior, and you had sin, and to come and BELIEVE and be saved.
or, you were told that the water will wash your sin away.
So, one is true and one isnt. But in both cases, both will believe that they have to now go and DO to be Righteous, ...vs exist as having been completed as "in Christ". "Made Righteous".
So...Until you can see that you are "the righteousness of GOD in Christ", you will try to DO THAT for yourself, or keep that for yourself.
That is BROKEN FAITH.
"Broken"
That means your faith is not in Christ to have completed your Salvation for you, on the Cross.


Now, Randy.....
i can write a Thread, entitled....."now that you are eternally sanctified in Christ", "made righteous", and have become "one with God", "the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD">..."in Christ' you have BECOME, as a "new Creation in Christ"...

Now.....Lets now talk about your DISCIPLESHIP, that you perform, because you are already "Sanctified" "Justified", "Redeemed", by the Blood of Jesus.

So, THAT THREAD, is..

'"present your body a living Sacrifice"... as that's your DISCIPLESHIP that you are to walk, which is what Paul said He completed as "His Course".

Discipleship is not Salvation.
Discipleship, is not "Righteousness"
"Presenting your body a living Sacrifice" to God, can not save you, does not make you or keep you righteous, and isn't. your Salvation.
Its only Your DISCIPLESHIP.
Discipleship is not Salvation.

= Jesus is Salvation.

Jesus is your Salvation.
Not you, doing something, now, or later.

DISCIPLESHIP....is what you do, BECAUSE you are "sanctified". "Justified".."Redeemed"..."Made Righteous" and "Now made free from SIn.... Already by the BLOOD and DEATH of JESUS.

 

[Ritajanice]

We must choose to be like Christ if we want to participate in the renewing of our minds. But we don't "must choose to be like Christ" as a part of being reborn, and receiving eternal life. Right?

Once your birthed that’s it, your born again and have received eternal life, set free from eternal damnation,as were in Christ..my belief.

Since I have given up this flesh business, the renewing of my mind seems to be coming on leaps and bounds...all this fleshy thinking just doesn’t have a strong hold like it did.

When we let go of self and let God, it’s amazing ....I’m not perfect as soon as I get a negative thought, i blank it out.,,just my thoughts ,Brother.

 

[Behold]

the Law of Moses is no longer in effect.

1.) """"""The law came by Moses.......GRACE and TRUTH came by JESUS The Christ."""""

2.) The born again = """"""you are not UNDER THE LAW, but under GRACE"""""

3.) """"Christ is the END OF THE LAW For Righteousness, to everyone that believes"""".

4.) :"""""Christ has redeemed us (the born again) from the CURSE of the LAW""""""

5.) """"""The power of SIN< is the LAW"""""".

"Law" means...... you are trying to stay saved by being good.
Its any type of "here is what i have to do, to keep myself saved".

That is "the LAW"......its not just the 613 Law's of Moses

A.) Its LEGALISM

Paul said that the "law Gospel", or that someone trying to put the LAW back on the Believer is : Galatians 1:8

Here is how a Heretic would teach the "law Gospel".

Listen....

"Christ saved you, so that you can now go and Keep the Law and the Statues"....ect.

In other words..... The New Covenant is given so that you can go back now and keep the Old Covenant.

Thats a "doctrine of Devils". Hebrews 13:9

 

[Behold]

.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, and would support you except for your tendency to see your view of things as "you vs. the world."

All i see is what is happening when i deal with people who never write the word CROSS in a post.
So, be careful as your finger is pointing a lot , and at the same time, you are the man.

 

[Randy Kluth]

My Thread is NOT entitled '"""what is your Discipleship".... Randy.

My Thread is Teaching that by being "in Christ", born again...' we are ETERNALLY Sanctified by Christ....Who is become our "redemption. Justification, Sanctification".

You say this, and then you add later about "doing." This is inconsistent! If you don't want to talk about Discipleship, don't go on to talk about Discipleship yourself!

For some, like myself, the subject is related. But if not for you, and you complain about it being brought up, why bring it up yourself at all?

How do you know?
Its "Because GOD has made Him to be so".

1 Corinthians 1:30

= DONE DEAL
= COMPLETED

This is the effect of CHRIST's Redemption as applied to the Believer as "the gift of Salvation" and '"The Gift of Righteousness".

I agree with this much. And I fully support you in this.

Listen,
When you were saved, you were told that Jesus is your Savior, and you had sin, and to come and BELIEVE and be saved.
or, you were told that the water will wash your sin away.
So, one is true and one isnt. But in both cases, both will believe that they have to now go and DO to be Righteous, ...vs exist as having been completed as "in Christ". "Made Righteous".
So...Until you can see that you are "the righteousness of GOD in Christ", you will try to DO THAT for yourself, or keep that for yourself.
That is BROKEN FAITH.
"Broken"
That means your faith is not in Christ to have completed your Salvation for you, on the Cross.

This is where you're inconsistent in saying that the thread is not about Discipleship, and not about "doing righteousness." Now you're stepping in the direction of Sanctification.

And whether we're talking Salvation or Sanctification, we step beyond our initial Salvation to discuss what is beyond being "born again in Christ" to discuss what we have to "do," in terms of Discipleship. So you don't get to decide the course of the discussion, just because you think Discipleship is separate from Salvation.

Salvation can be defined as the initial act of getting saved, or it can be defined as the whole process of living in the Salvation of Christ. It is context that determines the use. And perhaps semantics is part of the problem here?

Now, Randy.....
i can write a Thread, entitled....."now that you are eternally sanctified in Christ", "made righteous", and have become "one with God", "the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD">..."in Christ' you have BECOME, as a "new Creation in Christ"...

Now.....Lets now talk about your DISCIPLESHIP, that you perform, because you are already "Sanctified" "Justified", "Redeemed", by the Blood of Jesus.

So, THAT THREAD, is..

'"present your body a living Sacrifice"... as that's your DISCIPLESHIP that you are to walk, which is what Paul said He completed as "His Course".

Discipleship is not Salvation.
Discipleship, is not "Righteousness"
"Presenting your body a living Sacrifice" to God, can not save you, does not make you or keep you righteous, and isn't. your Salvation.
Its only Your DISCIPLESHIP.
Discipleship is not Salvation.

= Jesus is Salvation.

Jesus is your Salvation.
Not you, doing something, now, or later.

DISCIPLESHIP....is what you do, BECAUSE you are "sanctified". "Justified".."Redeemed"..."Made Righteous" and "Now made free from SIn.... Already by the BLOOD and DEATH of JESUS.

Of course. I've never said otherwise. You seem to be presupposing my position as "doing" apart from the Cross of Christ? As I've always said, everything we do as a Christian is based upon what Christ did at the cross.

My concern is with those who think that our will plays no role in accepting Christ, and no role in obeying Christ. Sounds crazy, but that's kind of what I've heard being said. This bypasses human reasoning, and our critical faculties, and can be a real problem.

 

[Behold]

Perhaps you have some knowledge, but that's supposed to translate into patience, kindness, and love.

First of all, your opinion, is just your opinion.
You value it, I dont.

ive read your Theology for over 2 yrs, and its Legalism, and has no Cross in it.
If you post a Post about the Cross, it'll be because i embarrassed you, so then you might do it.
Your Theology is Legalism.
People like me can help you, but the issue is, there are few left who will come to a forum and deal with the Calvinists and the Legalists, and the hatred.
Get it while its available, as you wont find it in your Church.

You are often found trying to turn another member against me, and then you want me to offer you love, and kindness....respect.
So, that kind of behavior that then requires of me, what you are not offering, is carnality issues, and you need to deal with it.

 

[Ritajanice]

And perhaps semantics is part of the problem here?

Yes, I believe it does indeed.

 

[Behold]

You say this, and then you add later about "doing."

And whether we're talking Salvation or Sanctification, we step beyond our initial Salvation

Not on THIS Thread.

I explained to you that THIS THREAD is not about "present your body as a living Sacrifice".

That is not THIS THREAD's Topic.

THIS THREAD is not about DISCIPLESHIP.... Its only about "being Sanctified, entirely", as ;

1 Corinthians 1:30

Paul said to us..........taught this...>"And be found IN CHRIST not having my OWN Righteousness that is of the LAW, but to only have the Righteousness of GOD, in Christ".

English Standard Version
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and redemption,

Berean Literal Bible
But out of Him, you are in Christ Jesus, who has been made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and redemption,

New American Standard Bible
But it is due to Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and SANCTIFICATION, and redemption,

 

[Behold]

That's my favorite version!

Also from that album,

Much love!

Marks,
I'd appreciate it, if you'd not use my Thread as a Juke Box that is discussing another Topic, not related to the Thread's Topic.
Now, you can abuse my non- music Thread by posting Music Vids, as long as you realize that your next Thread, is going to be treated as you chose to treat mine.

Im good if you are.

much love,-

<B><

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not on THIS Thread.

I explained to you that THIS THREAD is not about "present your body as a living Sacrifice".

That is not THIS THREAD's Topic.

THIS THREAD is not about DISCIPLESHIP.... Its only about "being Sanctified, entirely", as ;

Some threads lead to a number of related subjects. Big deal! I give up....

 

[marks]

is going to be treated as you chose to treat mine.

Hmm. I've deleted my post per your request. But is this the way to talk? All you had to do was ask.

Much love!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That's true. There are "researchers" even in the most "spiritual" groups. Some groups place a premium on *not* having an education, though. Cults generally want people to remain in their ignorance and feed off of trust in the leadership.

I agree with this, with the caveat that “cults” are not denominations/group, but rather a way of thinking- that “I want the black and white, follow my Leader, don’t think/examine, just bang my drum”. Such people exist in every group.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I agree with this, with the caveat that “cults” are not denominations/group, but rather a way of thinking- that “I want the black and white, follow my Leader, don’t think/examine, just bang my drum”. Such people exist in every group.

Well, cults are certainly "denominations," as such, though not as we mean it in the conventional Christian sense. But I get your point.

Cults think in terms of gathering around a particular teacher or inward teaching, exalting that particular group over others. The point is not intellectual agreement as much as membership in the cult.

There has to be some overriding theme giving validity to its exclusive, or elitist status. As such it goes well beyond "reasoning together with the Lord," or critical thinking of the Western kind.

BTW, I do not belong to a Cult, such as Behold suggested. He should not have entered that into "His Thread."

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well, cults are certainly "denominations," as such, though not as we mean it in the conventional Christian sense. But I get your point.

Cults think in terms of gathering around a particular teacher or inward teaching, exalting that particular group over others. The point is not intellectual agreement as much as membership in the cult.

There has to be some overriding theme giving validity to its exclusive, or elitist status. As such it goes well beyond "reasoning together with the Lord," or critical thinking of the Western kind.

You and I are actually disagreeing here. But oh well.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You and I are actually disagreeing here. But oh well.

It's okay, Jane. Sometimes definitions get lost in all of the syntax. (Did I use "syntax" right?)

 

[Randy Kluth]

First of all, your opinion, is just your opinion.
You value it, I dont.

ive read your Theology for over 2 yrs, and its Legalism, and has no Cross in it.

No, you misrepresent my views. They aren't in any sense "Legalism," except that you want to define it as such.

1) I believe that we are saved unto Eternal Life by the atonement of Christ alone. No work we do achieves atonement for our sin except accepting Christ's atonement and the righteousness his atonement requires of us. He died for us *so that* we might do good works through him!

1 John 2.6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

However, saying we need to accept Christ is *not* Legalism. Saying we must work righteousness does not mean our work is the work of atonement Christ alone accomplished. Saying we do righteousness is not saying we are accomplishing righteousness *apart from Christ!* Sanctification is, for me, not just receiving as fact Christ's atonement, but more, a walk with Christ, reflecting that understanding.

2) I believe that whatever we do, in terms of obeying Christ following our initial Salvation, is based on a living relationship with Christ through his Word, which began at the inception of our Salvation. That is not "Legalism." That is Discipleship and Sanctification.

We disagree on Sanctification because you believe it strictly has to do with what Christ did on the Cross, and not with anything we do after that event, making Discipleship separate from Sanctification. Many Christians would agree with me who are not in the least "Legalists."

You are just trying to smear me and name-call. I have no interest in separating you from your fellow Christian. I am, however, interested in persuading others, who follow you, to put Jesus as the primary Teacher.

Matt 23.8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers."

If you post a Post about the Cross, it'll be because i embarrassed you, so then you might do it.
Your Theology is Legalism.

That's untrue. I do not believe we "earn our own Salvation." But I do rightly believe that true Salvation requires that we obey Christ.

People like me can help you, but the issue is, there are few left who will come to a forum and deal with the Calvinists and the Legalists, and the hatred.
Get it while its available, as you wont find it in your Church.

You are often found trying to turn another member against me, and then you want me to offer you love, and kindness....respect.
So, that kind of behavior that then requires of me, what you are not offering, is carnality issues, and you need to deal with it.

Stop the name-calling and we can engage in more responsible discussions. We don't have to agree, but neither do we have to name-call.

 

[Behold]

1 John 2.6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Are you "Living as Jesus lived" when you watch a Movie that has sex in it, or doesn't?

Paul said not to Marry, because you have to give your life to your family, (>your time<), and you will be caught up in it, and that is time you dont have for Christ....
So, are you like that, Randy?
Are you married?
Its ok to be married, but.......

= "As Jesus Lived", and notice, Jesus wasn't married.

Are you "living as Jesus Lived" when you watch "NetFlix"? Maybe "Game of Thrones"?

Do you have Any of the 'Movie" packs, that you can get with your Cable TV or DIRECT TV subscription?

If you have Cable TV, and you just watched something for an hour.......was your mind on Jesus for that hour?
Were you "living as Jesus lived"?

Do you watch TV or Use the Internet?
Are you on Facebook, Instagram, TicToc, Twitter, ...... ??? Is that "Living as Jesus Lived"?
Are you "Living as Jesus lived", when you are spending hours doing any of that that, later?

So, exactly when does your "must live as Jesus lived" actually begin for you, Randy?

.... You are quite annoying, with your verses that you post that you dont actually understand, much less anything else.

 

[Behold]

Hmm. I've deleted my post per your request. But is this the way to talk? All you had to do was ask.

Much love!

I did ask.
I asked on the Thread.
I didn't pm you about it, because you didn't pm me about it, before you posted the Video that isn't related to the Thread's Topic.

If it is, post it.
Its fine.