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Ive never used the term "conditional security" in my life.
So, you are a liar.
Same as you are on every forum, just before they realize it, and kick you off.
And just so you know.
I teach Eternal Security, as found in Pauline Theology.
My respsone to you, is to read my 200+ Threads.
Then compare them to yours, if if you ever write one.
And if you do, it'll be cut and paste from a commetary, and it'll be the same thing over and over.
You have one message, and its not your message, and it only prove you have a compulsion, that is not of God, to try to define everyone as a "do nothing".
You have issues, David.
Let me answer with a quote from myself,
Help is found in every case in trusting Jesus, what He did on the cross, that this means we are fully and truly reconciled to Him, and knowledge - faith - liberates us from the after-effects of the flesh, which now has no power over us.
We're not trying to make the flesh more dead, it's already dead, we are alive, now we are to live that life, the just shall live by faith.
Much love!
This is false. This is what you attacked and accused @Gideons300 of over and over again on the other Forum.
For the record what I teach is eternal security as well, Just not as a doctrine that is to be believed but as something we must arrive at through Christian life. Just like you are not considered a doctor because you claim to be one or believe to be one, but you must go through med school and residency and become one. This is what Assurance of the faith entails.
Kind of like the following commercials....
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Hebrews10:22)
Question in response: when you were first born again did you immediately become an elder in the church? No, there is a process to this growth, whatever you call it. I call it progressive sanctification, some call it "discipleship" some just call it "growing in Christ", etc. We are all on that journey at different stages of it, and to say you are not is to say you are in need of nothing which is Laodicean complacency, the lack of growth Spiritually because we think we have all we need. All I am saying is as simple as that. We all must finish that race before us.
God Bless.
No I did not, but, that's something different than what we are talking about.
My question in response. When you are born again, how long does that process take? Being beborn?
Yes, that's right, as if we were increasing in holiness. And you support that concept with your blanketing everyone with your Laodicean accusation, and with you're idea that we are not able to actually achieve unity with each other right now, because we lack the Holy Spirit, and are waiting for the end times outpouring.
I believe this term "progressive sanctification" is a misnomer, and misrepresents what is true, which is that in Christ we are sanctified already. Our new creation is holy and righteous.
We are all in varying stages of renewing our minds. That would be the Scriptural way to talk about this.
Before, you called me Laodicean for saying I am complete in Christ. Do you still think that way? We have been given all we need for life and godliness through His promises. Do you believe that is true?
Do you believe that you can overcome your flesh and this world by trusting in Jesus to make it so in you?
Much love!
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For the "record" let me reiterate that you are a cut and paste commentary pretending to be a teacher.
You have no original theology, and you only rant one topic, that you cut and paste, over and over, like a Parrot on LSD.
Its all you have, and it eventually gets you kicked off of all Forums.
So, let me help you with your theology of "arriving" nonsense.
Christian Discipleship, is the process of working out your salvation. This means you learn to exist within it, correctly.
Christianity itself, is not something you arrive into, David..... as you and your deceived commentaries preach, but rather its what we BECOME, by being born again.
See a Christian STARTS as "the righteousness of God"..... We START there, fully equal to, God's Holiness. = "Made RIGHTEOUS".
And then we enter a life of Discipleship, that is not based on learning how to be good, but its based on learning how to THINK as God Thinks.
True discipleship, is not about sinning less and less, but rather its about learning how to exist in the mind of Christ. And once THERE, then all the rest of the discipleship, exists as perfection.
Actually this is right on the topic we are discussing. We are born again not as mature Spiritual elders but as Children (See 1 John 2:13 for these stages of spiritual growth) So here you have a problem with your theology, if you say we have all we need when we are born again, for even scripture addresses a Maturation process spiritually in our lives Call it transforming your mind if you want to, it is all part of the same thing.
Being Born again is instantaneous, we are born again as children of the faith, and like our natural bodies mature, so to do our Spiritual bodies. Your flesh is in the process of decay continually in the Physical, But our Spirit is coming to life empowered by the breath of God, the Holy Spirit, the more you yield to His leading and submit to His will the more you will mature Spiritually.... This is not our work But us (The Human soul as per your other post) getting out of the way and coming into submission to His will and control in our life.... where we truly are led by the Spirit (Romans 8:14)
What irks you so much is that you read into my comments an accusation when there is none. I Embrace the fact that I am a Laodicean So for me this is no insult. I Know that God showed me this, and he helped me to overcome this Laodicean nature in my life. He also showed me we all who alive today who call ourselves Christians are Laodiceans in a sense as this is the spirit of the age. This is not just me "externalizing" and internal condition, but God showed me this as this is part of my ministry he called me for. @Behold accuses me of "cut and paste" theology, But tell me who else is preaching this? Who else is preaching of the journey of sainthood that was discussed previously? Who else is teaching that conditional security is a stage of our maturation process that we would come to the point of full assurance of the faith? These are doctrines that unify and not divide like calling all who believe in conditional security occultists, or all who hunger and thirst for righteousness as legalists.... These are all parts of our Spiritual journey, where we learn to to fully trust in the providence of God, Not just mentally but spiritually.... renewing the mind is part of this journey, Progressive sanctification is just one name for this that theologians have come up with. If you do not like it do not use it that does not bother me in the least, my personal preference is the journey to sainthood, which is harder to explain because I have to explain how I differentiate between the faithful and the saints (Ephesians 1:1-2). It all has to do with Spiritual growth and maturation which is all empowered by the workof the Holy Ghost in our lives.
Let me give you some practical applications here. A person who has lived a degenerate life of hedonism and sin when they are saved is likely to lean more towards a Legalistic form of faith. A Person who was Brought up in a legalistic atmosphere is likely to move in a direction of lawlessness in their Spiritual journey Upon being born again. Neither of these means they were not born again, but that rebirth is dealing with the things they prided themselves in their past lives. Both are Brothers in Christ despite their differing response to being born again. Both had sin and the burden of sin lifted off of them, but they were opposing burdens the two towers of Satan, legalism and lawlessness, and until they reach the point of maturity (fulness of Christ) they will bounce between those opposing views (See Ephesians 4:13-15) These all being steps in their maturation process.
So to put it bluntly you cannot just ignore the question i raised as being irrelevant because it all ties together in this conversation. When You are born again you are not immediately born as an elder of the faith but there is a maturation and growth process Spiritually. This is entirely Scriptural And is the very impetus for the fivefold ministry, and is the reason why I Oppose theology that is Nicolaitan again. Because it keeps the people in a state of infancy spiritually, being fed milk instead of the meat of the Word of God.
God bless.
You say insult. I simply say untrue. You base this whole big thing on your idea that EVERYONE is "Laodicean".
I point out this, and YOU say, OH, you're just feeling insulted.
This is all so riddled with projection.
Much love!
Did you receive part of Jesus into you? Were you partly reconciled? Was only a part of you filled with a part of the Holy Spirit? We're you only partly reborn? Somewhat justified? A little bit new? Now some of you is from God? Or are all things now of God? All things.
We are complete in Him. We just need to begin to believe it, and live accordingly.
The first thing Peter says to add to your faith, "virtue", or, we might say, Valor. Think about that. What requires courage? Is it to say we are failures? OR is it to say we have within us what we need to stop sinning? How many of us want the excuse of being a failure?
Much love!
When you are born again, no, you are not born and Elder. Or, "mature" in your Christian walk.
Just the same . . . you ARE reborn.
No longer of Adam's race.
No longer a sinner.
No longer separated from God.
Now you are alive from among the dead.
Now, live accordingly, believing these to be true.
Much love!
And of course I've asserted this the whole time! Your painting me otherwise is not right.
When you were first born again did you fully understand the mysteries of God? Or did it take time and study to learn of these things?
For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.....(Colossians 2:1-3)
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. (Colossians 2:6-7)
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (Colossians 2:10)
As You can see, there is a process to us becoming complete in him, it is not that he has not given us all we need, but that we are not able to receive him in his fulness, This is why We have the fivefold ministry to help the faithful reach the fulness of Christ. (Ephesians 4:11-16)
My experience in the faith is that this is a lifelong journey, as all he has done for us is more fully revealed as we grow in Christ (2 Peter 3:18)
This is what divine revelation entails, and this is what textualism thwarts as per the article from Tozer I quoted discusses.
Falls Victim to Its Virtues
What is generally overlooked is that Fundamentalism, as it spread throughout the various denominations and nondenominational groups, fell victim to its own virtues. The Word died in the hands of its friends. ... An unofficial hierarchy decided what Christians were to believe. Not the Scriptures, but what the scribe thought the Scriptures meant became the Christian creed. Christian colleges, seminaries, Bible institutes, Bible conferences, popular Bible expositors all joined to promote the cult of textualism. The system of extreme dispensationalism which was devised, relieved the Christian of repentance, obedience and cross-carrying in any other than the most formal sense. Whole sections of the New Testament were taken from the church and disposed of after a rigid system of dividing the Word of truth.
All this resulted in a religious mentality inimical to the true faith of Christ. ... The basic doctrines of the Bible were there, but the climate was just not favorable to the sweet fruits of the Spirit.
The whole mood was different from that of the Early Church and of the great souls who suffered and sang and worshiped in the centuries past. The doctrines were sound but something vital was missing. The tree of correct doctrine was never allowed to blossom. The voice of the turtle [dove] was rarely heard in the land".... Faith, a mighty, vitalizing doctrine in the mouths of the apostles, became in the mouth of the scribe another thing altogether and power went from it. As the letter triumphed, the Spirit withdrew and textualism ruled supreme....
In the interest of accuracy it should be said that this was a general condition only. Certainly there were some even in those low times whose longing hearts were better theologians than their teachers were. These pressed on to a fullness and power unknown to the rest. But they were not many and the odds were too great" they could not dispel the mist that hung over the land.
The error of textualism is not doctrinal. It is far more subtle than that and much more difficult to discover, but its effects are just as deadly. Not its theological beliefs are at fault, but its assumptions.
It assumes, for instance, that if we have the word for a thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true of Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tells us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to make it tell us that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resultant experience wholly mental.
No Revival without Reformation - A.W. Tozer - Sermon Index
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but spiritual growth is growing sanctification.
Jesus is my sanctification, and He is now making me conformed to His image.
This is what is known as positional and experiential truth.
In my posiiton before God I am 100% sanctified.
In my experience before God I am growing into what god has already declared me and sees me--100% sanctified. That is in a real bible BTW.
And I do not teach sanctification by works- that is a false assumption on your part! I preach growing sanctification in our works because we are already fully sanctified!
People who do not recognize that we hold a position before god that does not match our experience come to very faulty conclusions in the Scriptures.
I hear people talk about "positional righteousness", that we are declared righteous, that God sees us as righteous. I've heard the expression that "God looks at us through Jesus colored glasses", like that.
My understanding is that we've actually been recreated a being who, being born from God as our recreation, we share His Godly nature, and are righteous in our being.
But that after living fleshy lives, that's what we know, so we have to learn how to think the new way, so we live our new creation.
Not that there is anything 'pretend' about us, as if, we are unrighteous, but God pretends we are, until we actually are. I more see it as, we don't realize we are, but as we do, we live that way, because we live according to what we believe true.
Much love!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Right 100%
Our new man cannot sin. Our old man cannot be holy. We choose sometime moment by moment which we give authority to in our heart.
I teach my classes with a stick figure in a square. I say it is a block of marble. People see the block of marble slowly being chipped away to become a statue, inn various stages of incompletion. the sculptor sees the perfect stature and is removing th epieces of marble that do not belong.
I edited your post because you did manage to say something correct, but not in the way you think.
See, your Sanctification is God created.
We can't be more sanctified then to be the "righteousness of God, in Christ".
And then, we live our lives, within this Sanctification, sinless, learning how to "work our out Salvation".
The process of learning how to "work out your salvation", is = DISCIPLESHIP.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well how wonderfully arrogant of you. It is so nioce that so many people on this thread pretend to know what I think. For all you know we may be saying the same thing in different ways. I prefer the KJV way "He hath perfected forever, those being sanctified". Once again Sanctification is both an experiential and a positional truth. I am sanctified and am being sanctified.
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