Equal to Christ!

[theefaith]

You are missing the Holy Spirit and the liberty that comes with having an eternal life force to live by. Doesn't it say...you have no need for anyone to teach you? But it is the Spirit of truth that guides a person into the knowledge of the truth.

1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, you shall abide in him."

If your dogmas leave out the Spirit of truth given as a gift to those who are spiritual in Christ...then you are missing eternal life completely.

of course but this does not refer to public revelation or public teaching or dogmas and creeds it refers to the private gifts of the spirit in the life of a Christian

wisdom
Understanding
Knowledge
Counsel
Fear of the Lord
Piety
Fortitude

 

[Matthias]

they are the witnesses of Christ acts 1:8 and successors of the apostles having apostolic authority

In regard to Justin Martyr, he writes in Dialogue With Trypho,

“For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genistae, Meristae, Gallilleans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews (do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are [only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”

(Chapter XXXL)

CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)

Protestants generally believe that when they die their immortal souls will immediately be taken to heaven. Justin sounds harsh about that belief. I presume you agree with Justin about that.

But I’m not asking about Protestant belief. (You’ve already made your position concerning them abundantly clear.) I’m interested in hearing about Catholic teaching from you.

I’m aware from attending Catholic funeral masses and graveside funeral services that you locate Christians (i.e. Catholics) in purgatory when they die. Are there any exceptions?

Also, Justin speaks about resurrected Christians spending 1,000 years in Jerusalem. That sounds very much like a connection with “the meek inheriting the earth” to me. What does Catholicism say about that?

 

[theefaith]

In regard to Justin Martyr, he writes in Dialogue With Trypho,

“For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genistae, Meristae, Gallilleans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews (do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are [only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”

(Chapter XXXL)

CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)

Protestants generally believe that when they die their immortal souls will immediately be taken to heaven. Justin sounds harsh about that belief. I presume you agree with Justin about that.

But I’m not asking about Protestant belief. (You’ve already made your position concerning them abundantly clear.) I’m interested in hearing about Catholic teaching from you.

I’m aware from attending Catholic funeral masses and graveside funeral services that you locate Christians (i.e. Catholics) in purgatory when they die. Are there any exceptions?

Also, Justin speaks about resurrected Christians spending 1,000 years in Jerusalem. That sounds very much like a connection with “the meek inheriting the earth” to me. What does Catholicism say about that?

not sure what he’s saying
Purgatory is for those who need purification

 

[Matthias]

not sure what he’s saying
Purgatory is for those who need purification

As always, I appreciate your candor. When I was still teaching I told my students that it was okay to say we don’t know when we don’t know something … except, of course, on exams!

My first thought is that if it’s true that Justin Martyr has apostolic authority then isn’t it crucial for us to be sure of what he’s saying?

My second thought is that if “purgatory is for those who need purification” then are there persons (Catholics) who don’t need purification? And if there are, does the RCC teach that, upon dying, their souls are taken to heaven?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

no it teaches no such thing
On the contrary purgatory is the grace of God merited by Christ in God’s providence

Take you’re time please and at least try to understand

understanding is a gift to of the HS do ask and you shall receive

I was Catholic and studied Roman doctrine very well.

Purgatory is a place where people are purged of "venial sins" a temporary place of suffering to purge us clean to be fir for heaven. that means the blood of Jesus wasn't ewnough and you have to pay for some of your sins in a temp[orary place of fire. That is Roman purgatory.

types and figures are for our instruction

Rom 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Yes they are, but Romanism has abused it by denying the efficacious work of the Blood of Christ and creating purgatory.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

Teh Bible declares me Holy because of Him! I am righteous because of Him, I am redeemed because of HIm, I am perfect forever now because of Him.

And all you Catholic saints commentaries do not prove purgatory. Especially in light of the fact all the verses spoke of life on earth.

And the non- Canonical Maccabees has been ripped out of its context to provide a false proof for purgatory. Jews did not believe in Heaven, but awaited resurrection to a kingdom on earth (which Jesus will supply.) They did what they did to secure a better place on earth for their broithers. Abrahams Bosom was not a place of suffering and burning for expiation. It was where righteous souls went until Jesus poured His blood out on the mercy seat in heaven.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

One apostle can do this on a matter of discipline

discipline is not under infallibility and each one must use human reasoning and prayer in matters of discipline

But we need 12 Apostles in every generation if you want to have succession. Jesus appointed 12 not hundreds of Apostles.

Who is the successor to James? JOhn? Simon Zelotes? Matthias? Matthew? Andrew? Philip?

 

[bbyrd009]

All of these things are works of the flesh. People tend to be religious. Just look at all the religions of the world. Men want to have control over the mysteries of God. But trying to formulate a perfect "creed" is a fools errand. No one can reduce God's way in Christ to a formula.

If you knew more about church history...Creeds were used to overthrow one group that had ex-communicated another group...and a further council invented a further creed to ex-communicate the other group that had previously ex-communicated them. How can this not be according to men?

At one time there were 4 bishops of Antioch each trying to supplant the other. At one time there were 3 different popes all vying for temporal power while condemning the other 2. It's ALL the flesh posturing as something it is not. It is Babylon.

The irony in all this is by trying to force people into one religious entity, people become the most divisive of all. Not by power nor by might but by My Spirit says the Lord. Unity only comes about through a supernatural life and peace from God.

i think Paul said it the most succinctly; I know the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave…

and theefaith has just made her choice, obviously

 

[theefaith]

As always, I appreciate your candor. When I was still teaching I told my students that it was okay to say we don’t know when we don’t know something … except, of course, on exams!

My first thought is that if it’s true that Justin Martyr has apostolic authority then isn’t it crucial for us to be sure of what he’s saying?

My second thought is that if “purgatory is for those who need purification” then are there persons (Catholics) who don’t need purification? And if there are, does the RCC teach that, upon dying, their souls are taken to heaven?

those who die after baptism or extreme unction are completely purified and go to heaven

 

[Matthias]

those who die after baptism or extreme unction are completely purified and go to heaven

That’s not what the priest who conducted the funeral masses said about my father-in-law and mother-in-law when they died. They were both baptized Catholics and the priest said (I’m paraphrasing) that our hope for them should be that their time in purgatory would be short.

That aside, how does moving from purgatory to heaven fit with resurrection and spending 1,000 years in Jerusalem?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Councils, creeds, dogma’s, catechisms and decrees of the church are binding on all the faithful and are the teaching of Christ!!!

Statements like this explain 17,858 posts and only 1,173 likes, Mr. advocate of the infallible, LoL.

 

[amigo de christo]

Statements like this explain 17,858 posts and only 1,173 likes, Mr. advocate of the infallible, LoL.

And statments like this one give THEE faith the glory he seeketh .
You see most folks are not gonna agree with TRUTH And though Thee faith often speaks falsehoods
HE thinks it is truth and he sees every attack as simply us pagans against His Godly institution .
SO instead we need to simply REBUKE the man .

 

[amigo de christo]

That’s not what the priest who conducted the funeral masses said about my father-in-law and mother-in-law when they died. They were both baptized Catholics and the priest said (I’m paraphrasing) that our hope for them should be that their time in purgatory would be short.

That aside, how does moving from purgatory to heaven fit with resurrection and spending 1,000 years in Jerusalem?

Exactly my friend . Either some catholics have no idea what their church teaches , OR they purposefully lie about things .
Or perhaps both .

 

[Hidden In Him]

And statments like this one give THEE faith the glory he seeketh .
You see most folks are not gonna agree with TRUTH And though Thee faith often speaks falsehoods
HE thinks it is truth and he sees every attack as simply us pagans against His Godly institution .
SO instead we need to simply REBUKE the man .

Personally, I think he's rather adept at getting people to debate Catholicism by goading them into responding to provocative statements and thread titles.

Normally I ignore him unless I'm poking a little fun just to play around, Lol.

 

[Matthias]

@theefaith I have something else that I’d like to ask you about.

When my mother-in-law died her children removed everything in the house and sold it. Among the items that were removed - and none of the children wanted, so I asked for it and it was given to me instead of being thrown away - is a framed document that belonged to her mother. The document was issued to the family of my mother-in-laws family. It is signed and sealed by an Archbishop.

The document reads:

“Most Holy Father

(Personal name of my mother-in-laws mother) Family

humbly prostuate at the feet of your holiness beg the Apostolic Benediction and a Plenary Indulgence to be gained at the hour of death on condition that being truly sorry for their sins even though unable to confess them and to receive the holy Viaticum they shall at least invoke with their lips or heart the holy name of Jesus.”

The document is dated 18 October 1950.

There is a side view portrait at the top of the document which, I think, is a portrait of Pope Prius XII.

What can you tell me about the document and how it impacts my wife’s grandmother’s family?

 

[theefaith]

I was Catholic and studied Roman doctrine very well.

Purgatory is a place where people are purged of "venial sins" a temporary place of suffering to purge us clean to be fir for heaven. that means the blood of Jesus wasn't ewnough and you have to pay for some of your sins in a temp[orary place of fire. That is Roman purgatory.




Yes they are, but Romanism has abused it by denying the efficacious work of the Blood of Christ and creating purgatory.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

Teh Bible declares me Holy because of Him! I am righteous because of Him, I am redeemed because of HIm, I am perfect forever now because of Him.

And all you Catholic saints commentaries do not prove purgatory. Especially in light of the fact all the verses spoke of life on earth.

And the non- Canonical Maccabees has been ripped out of its context to provide a false proof for purgatory. Jews did not believe in Heaven, but awaited resurrection to a kingdom on earth (which Jesus will supply.) They did what they did to secure a better place on earth for their broithers. Abrahams Bosom was not a place of suffering and burning for expiation. It was where righteous souls went until Jesus poured His blood out on the mercy seat in heaven.

Abraham's bosom or Sheol was cause after the fall heaven was closed, the veil in the temple signified this fact, at the death of Jesus the vail was rent by God signifying heaven open and the souls of the just were seen

at baptism all our sins are forgiven
But if sin after that either Venial or mortal and we repent and confess then our sins are forgiven by divine mercy, but there is temporal punishment that must be suffered to satisfy divine justice!

 

[theefaith]

But we need 12 Apostles in every generation if you want to have succession. Jesus appointed 12 not hundreds of Apostles.

Who is the successor to James? JOhn? Simon Zelotes? Matthias? Matthew? Andrew? Philip?

Jn 20:21

Jesus has authority to appoint apostles and his successor so the apostles have the same authority

see acts 1:15-26

 

[theefaith]

That’s not what the priest who conducted the funeral masses said about my father-in-law and mother-in-law when they died. They were both baptized Catholics and the priest said (I’m paraphrasing) that our hope for them should be that their time in purgatory would be short.

That aside, how does moving from purgatory to heaven fit with resurrection and spending 1,000 years in Jerusalem?

no I meant died immediately after baptism

 

[theefaith]

I don’t know or understand the 1000 it must be figurative cos at the end it would come to an end!

Lk 1;32-33 says his kingdom does not end

 

[theefaith]

Statements like this explain 17,858 posts and only 1,173 likes, Mr. advocate of the infallible, LoL.

we are not called to be liked! It ain’t no popularity contest!

we are called to be faithful not successful!

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith I have something else that I’d like to ask you about.

When my mother-in-law died her children removed everything in the house and sold it. Among the items that were removed - and none of the children wanted, so I asked for it and it was given to me instead of being thrown away - is a framed document that belonged to her mother. The document was issued to the family of my mother-in-laws family. It is signed and sealed by an Archbishop.

The document reads:

“Most Holy Father

(Personal name of my mother-in-laws mother) Family

humbly prostuate at the feet of your holiness beg the Apostolic Benediction and a Plenary Indulgence to be gained at the hour of death on condition that being truly sorry for their sins even though unable to confess them and to receive the holy Viaticum they shall at least invoke with their lips or heart the holy name of Jesus.”

The document is dated 18 October 1950.

There is a side view portrait at the top of the document which, I think, is a portrait of Pope Prius XII.

What can you tell me about the document and how it impacts my wife’s grandmother’s family?

im not a priest so I’m not sure
Sounds like a apostolic blessing

I love old documents like that and old bibles prayer books etc.