Equal to Christ!

[Hidden In Him]

we are not called to be liked! It ain’t no popularity contest!

we are called to be faithful not successful!

By Christians? I think when someone is not liked by Christians it's generally not a great sign, TheeFaith, and I don't mean that in a hateful way. I'm just telling you that people tend to see through goading and divisiveness eventually, and then all you have left to hang your hat on is that you were "being faithful to God." Such a claim can just as easily be attributed to self-delusion as it can to genuine faithfulness unto the Lord, especially when many are detecting that the spirit behind which things are being written isn't very just.

 

[Matthias]

I don’t know or understand the 1000 it must be figurative cos at the end it would come to an end!

Lk 1;32-33 says his kingdom does not end

The 1,000 years could be literal or could be figurative.

If it’s literal then Jerusalem then Jerusalem should be literal.

If it’s figurative then Jerusalem should be figurative.

The stake in the ground is the statement in Luke that the kingdom never ends. I understand that to be literal.

The question, I think, is does the figurative option with the 1,000 years and the figurative Jerusalem fit best with the kingdom never ending or does the literal option with the 1,000 years and the literal Jerusalem fit best with the kingdom never ending.

You suggest the figurative option is the best fit. I think the literal option is the best fit.

If it’s the literal option then the 1,000 years can’t be the end of the kingdom. What is it then? I think it’s the 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth with the saints following his second coming.

But what happens when that 1,000 year period comes to an end? It can’t be the end of the kingdom, so the 1,000 years is only a segment of time in the kingdom that never ends.

I think Justin Martyr was familiar with Revelation and was speaking in Dialogue about Revelation 20:2 (Satan being bound for 1,000 years - the 1,000 years that Christ and the saints are ruling on the earth) and Revelation 20:7 (Satan is unbound at the end of the 1,000 year imprisonment and goes out to deceive the nations again - a last hurrah, if you will.) When the final rebellion is put down by Christ and the saints, Satan is thrown into the lake of fire, and then comes the judgement for all the dead, for those who were not ruling with Christ during the 1,000 period.

What follows this 1,000 year segment of time in the kingdom and the judgement of all of the dead is the new heaven and the new earth, as described in Revelation 21, 22 - the kingdom continuing without end on the restored earth.

That’s what I see, and what I think Justin Martyr saw, but I don’t see how that fits with Catholic teaching.

My position is classical premillennialism.

Offered for your consideration: The Premillennialism of Justin Martyr

 

[Matthias]

@theefaith I’m providing a link to an article that I think you would find interesting. The article is titled “Millennialism”. The article documents that millenarian views were the majority belief in the early church. That would seem to seal the deal for me, but the article contains a quote that I want to draw your attention to.

“The Catholic Church strongly condemns millennialism as the following shows:

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the ‘intrinsically perverse’ political form of a secular messianism.” - Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1995

Millennialism

If Justin Martyr believed and taught premillennialism and the RCC condemns pre as well as other types of millennialism then an assertion that Justin has (or had) apostolic authority doesn’t appear to be viable.

See also the names of others the article identifies as having believed and taught millennialism.

Just something for you to consider.

 

[Matthias]

“e. Subordinationism. The Apologists, especially Justin, taught the subordination of the Son to the Father. From Justin’s Dialogue (Cf. Seeberg, Eng. ed., 113) the Father alone is the real God; the Logos is only a Divine Being of second rank. With respect to the Father the Logos is something else … and another … He is different also in this, that while the Father is eternal, infinite, incomprehensible, unchangeable and transcendent, the Son is not (Justin, Dial. 56, 62, 128f.). Loofs remarks that the Apologists outside of Justin were not so strong in their insistence upon subordination. However, it was a tenet which continued to trouble the developing Christian Church. See our Chapter X on the Trinity.”

(J.L. Neve, A History Of Christian Thought, Vol. 1, p. 47)

Dr. Neve was a Lutheran scholar. Don’t let that put you off @theefaith. Read the sections in Dialogue that were referenced and decide for yourself if what he says about Justin is true or not.

Justin Martyr is equal to Christ?

 

[marksman]

Councils, creeds, dogma’s, catechisms and decrees of the church are binding on all the faithful and are the teaching of Christ!!!

Lk 10:16 16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as the Father sent me, so I send you! (The apostles and their successors have the SAME mission, ministry, power, and authority as Jesus Christ!

To reject Christ teaching authority in his church is to reject Christ! Lk 10:16

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

A dogma of the Catholic Church is defined as "a truth revealed by God, which the magisterium of the Church declared as binding on all the faithful, Dogma is the divinely revealed truth, declared as such by the infallible teaching authority of Jesus Christ in His holy church!

Dogma! Or De Fide! Or Thee faith!

The faith of Christians!
An inconvertible unchallengeable truth revealed by God!
Truth like God who revealed it is immutable! Unchangeable!

Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:15

The one true church founded by Christ on the authority of the apostles is ir-reformable!

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 4:5

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

More mumbo jumbo from thee faith who has this idea he is the Pope's representative on this Board or is that bored?

 

[theefaith]

By Christians? I think when someone is not liked by Christians it's generally not a great sign, TheeFaith, and I don't mean that in a hateful way. I'm just telling you that people tend to see through goading and divisiveness eventually, and then all you have left to hang your hat on is that you were "being faithful to God." Such a claim can just as easily be attributed to self-delusion as it can to genuine faithfulness unto the Lord, especially when many are detecting that the spirit behind which things are being written isn't very just.

I can’t help it if there

More mumbo jumbo from thee faith who has this idea he is the Pope's representative on this Board or is that bored?

Rejection of the church or her doctrine is rejection of christ

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Abraham's bosom or Sheol was cause after the fall heaven was closed, the veil in the temple signified this fact, at the death of Jesus the vail was rent by God signifying heaven open and the souls of the just were seen

at baptism all our sins are forgiven
But if sin after that either Venial or mortal and we repent and confess then our sins are forgiven by divine mercy, but there is temporal punishment that must be suffered to satisfy divine justice!

You have no concept of who God is and how the blood of Jesus completely satisfied divine justice.

You simply don't believe the blood of Jesus is enough!

Baptism doesn't forgive sins, receiving christ does!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jn 20:21

Jesus has authority to appoint apostles and his successor so the apostles have the same authority

see acts 1:15-26

So where are the other 11 successors to the apostles? If there is apostolic succession as romanism declares there should always be 12 and only 12 alive on the earth!

 

[theefaith]

You have no concept of who God is and how the blood of Jesus completely satisfied divine justice.

You simply don't believe the blood of Jesus is enough!

Baptism doesn't forgive sins, receiving christ does!

acts 22:16
Wash away sin

it is the sufficient blood of Christ just not applied all at the same time

 

[theefaith]

Does the sufficient blood of Christ restore us perfectly to the state we had before the fall? Yes but not all at one time, we have to wait for the second coming and the resurrection of the body

 

[theefaith]

So where are the other 11 successors to the apostles? If there is apostolic succession as romanism declares there should always be 12 and only 12 alive on the earth!

it’s not required to be in scripture

We don’t require the false doctrine of scripture alone

you can see Timothy as Paul’s spiritual son and successor

 

[Ronald Nolette]

acts 22:16
Wash away sin

it is the sufficient blood of Christ just not applied all at the same time

Not according to Gods Word. You have to decide to believe romansim or the God you say you serve.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

it’s not required to be in scripture

We don’t require the false doctrine of scripture alone

you can see Timothy as Paul’s spiritual son and successor

If it ain't there we are not required to obey it!

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If it is not in the Scriptures it is not profitable for doctrine, correction or instruction in righteousness! Says God- So I care not a whit what Romanism declares!

Besides Your new pope calls Hindu brahmins, Islamic Mullahs, brethren in Christ and they certainly do not believe in what rome teaches! So is this Pope a false Pope?

 

[theefaith]

If it ain't there we are not required to obey it!

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If it is not in the Scriptures it is not profitable for doctrine, correction or instruction in righteousness! Says God- So I care not a whit what Romanism declares!

Besides Your new pope calls Hindu brahmins, Islamic Mullahs, brethren in Christ and they certainly do not believe in what rome teaches! So is this Pope a false Pope?

I have my doubts, could be invalid or an imposter

but we must submit to our spiritual fathers

obedience to his ministers is obedience to Christ

Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[marksman]

I can’t help it if there


Rejection of the church or her doctrine is rejection of christ

Is that so? Life is full of surprises, isn't it? I must get up to date with my herersy.

 

[Taken]

I
That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

According to Scripture?
So why give that care over to men outside of Scripture?

 

[theefaith]

If it ain't there we are not required to obey it!

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If it is not in the Scriptures it is not profitable for doctrine, correction or instruction in righteousness! Says God- So I care not a whit what Romanism declares!

Besides Your new pope calls Hindu brahmins, Islamic Mullahs, brethren in Christ and they certainly do not believe in what rome teaches! So is this Pope a false Pope?

Sola scripture?

Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

if an apostle teaches by:

Smoke signals
Sign language
Radio
TV
Internet or
In person

we refuse to accept it!

But if he writes it down then and only then will we believe!

even though the content is exactly the same!

the apostles themselves have no authority!
Only what the write!!!!

fundamentalism is faith without reason, logic, or rational thought!

 

[theefaith]

According to Scripture?
So why give that care over to men outside of Scripture?

Apostles have the authority of period!

Sola scripture?

Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

if an apostle teaches by:

Smoke signals
Sign language
Radio
TV
Internet or
In person

we refuse to accept it!

But if he writes it down then and only then will we believe!

even though the content is exactly the same!

the apostles themselves have no authority!
Only what the write!!!!

fundamentalism is faith without reason, logic, or rational thought!

 

[Matthias]

it’s not required to be in scripture

We don’t require the false doctrine of scripture alone

you can see Timothy as Paul’s spiritual son and successor

“It’s not required to be in scripture.”

A recurring theme in Catholic scholarship when discussing the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[theefaith]

“It’s not required to be in scripture.”

A recurring theme in Catholic scholarship when discussing the doctrine of the Trinity.

Sola scripture?

Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

if an apostle teaches by:

Smoke signals
Sign language
Radio
TV
Internet or
In person

we refuse to accept it!

But if he writes it down then and only then will we believe!

even though the content is exactly the same!

the apostles themselves have no authority!
Only what the write!!!!

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