Eternal Life = Eternal Security = Born again.

[theophilus]

Why didn't God treat Cornelius like this before he got saved? You're just quoting Scriptures without knowing what they mean. "Filthy rags" refers to covering up evil works with false religious works. It doesn't refer to the good people do before they're saved.

Cornelius was already a worshiper of God and knew that he was a sinner. If someone already knows that he needs to be saved all we need to do is show him how. Most people don't realize they are sinners so we have to show them that they need salvation before we tell them how to receive it.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Cornelius was already a worshiper of God and knew that he was a sinner. If someone already knows that he needs to be saved all we need to do is show him how. Most people don't realize they are sinners so we have to show them that they need salvation before we tell them how to receive it.

But that isn't what was said in the Scriptures. It indicated that the testimony of Cornelius was that he was a good man. Judge for yourself:

Acts 10.1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.

I don't know why there is this intense need among many Christians to prove that unsaved men are despicable? I think it hinders the proclamation of the Gospel to them! I think they believe they need to prove a great need for salvation by demonstrating how horrible they are. But dishonestly portraying good men as evil will not show their need for Christ.

I do realize that you're not portraying Cornelius this way yourself. But you seem to lump him in with the saved, "worshiping God and knowing he is a sinner," while at the same time admitting he is not saved and doing good works. Even if he worships God and knows he's a sinner, he isn't saved and is still doing good works apart from salvation. That is the point.

I believe we should try to show men their need for salvation without having to portray them as evil-doers, when in reality often they do good. They just don't do what they need to do to have a constant relationship with God and be saved.

It needs to be pointed out to them that doing good occasionally is far below our human need to be in a constant relationship with God, which is eternal life. Man has a natural need to have this relationship in order to be fulfilled as someone who possesses a good nature, and doesn't just do good intermittently, interspersed with wrong-doing.

The covering of evil works by "filthy rags" is what Israel did in the time of national apostasy, making virtually every individual sinful, with the exception of a few prophets and a few hold outs for righteousness. This demonstrated that if a righteous nation, called to godliness, could fall to such depths, how can any nation claim to be consistently good?

This was Paul's argument, showing the propensity of even the best nations towards sin, meaning that they all require an atonement to reconcile their sin nature by replacing it with a new righteous nature. They need a nature that does good continually, and doesn't capitulate to sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

The saints of God before Christian Salvation were certainly good.

They were saved through faith in Jesus Christ; who is the God of the Old Testament (ex. Genesis 15:6).

but we can still do good even with a sinful nature because God made us to be able to do good.

Yes; but that good will always be tainted by sinful motives until we become born again. So it is righteousness that is as filthy rags.

Even if he worships God and knows he's a sinner, he isn't saved and is still doing good works apart from salvation. That is the point.

Those good works apart from salvation, to be consistent with the rest of holy scripture, are filthy rags and based in a heart that is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9).

The covering of evil works by "filthy rags" is what Israel did in the time of national apostasy, making virtually every individual sinful, with the exception of a few prophets and a few hold outs for righteousness.

The good works themselves were filthy rags...that they tried to use them to cover over their evil is besides the point.

So then, the works that are done by any unbeliever, while they may be termed as righteousness, are tainted by sin; and therefore, before the Lord, they are as filthy rags.

 

[KingdomSon]

-
Jesus will never leave you. He promised.
Where you go, He goes, .. because He is in you.

Which explains WHY "Christ in you IS YOUR HOPE OF GLORY".....
And "hope of glory" means, you are going to heaven, expect this, look for this, and be happy about it. (HOPE).
"Glory" is eternity with God with Christ.. Its everything that you will encounter after you are either Raptured or you die. And its all GOOD, and so good is it, that it has not even entered into your imagination, what God has prepared for those who love Him who are justified by Christ's blood. = Born again.

As i was driving to the Gym one morning, i was thinking about teaching the simplicity of salvation, as this is not always taught in a way that allows it to be seen in its simplicity.
Now, ive taught the Grace of God all over the world, to people of many different cultures.... French, Asian, Russian, Muslim......etc.. And so, i learned that for Salvation to be understood as Jesus would want, for the benefit of the hearer, i need to be very clear.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

So here is a clear understanding of becoming saved..
Lets say, You are not saved. This means you are not joined to God and His Family and to Christ by Spiritual BIRTH The barrier between you and God is your Sin.
Your sin has made you UNRIGHTEOUS..... So, Salvation is God's method of making you Righteous. Thats it. Thats all it is... See, You have no righteousness... and so you can't be joined to a Righteous God, whose name is HOLY.
So, you have an eternal problem. How do you get the (God's) righteousness that you need so that you can become a part of God's righteous eternal family? And this is where all ideas and false theology and "religion" bite the dust and die. = See there is nothing you can do, of yourself, to become righteous or STAY righteous. You can't of yourself provide or do either. God knows this, so, He provided His very own Righteousness for you, as "the gift of Salvation", "the gift of Righteousness".
The main difference between an unbeliever and a believer is that the believer has been given God's righteousness, as a gift and is born AGAIN.

God righteousness given to a person, functions as a completed righteousness.
Its all of it given to you, at once, and its sealed unto you, into you, and on you, until your day of redemption. (When you meet Jesus).
God's righteousness Is Jesus on The Cross saying , "it is finished", and proving this is TRUTH by walking out of His Tomb....ALIVE.

All of this is defined by and as, GRACE. Grace, God's Grace, defines all of it. God's Grace is Jesus. God's Grace is GOD making you Righteous. And the Righteousness He Gives you, comes from Jesus... who IS your Righteousness.
On the Cross, Jesus became your sin and DIED, and upon being Born again, you become the Righteousness of GOD and LIVE as a Born again Child of God.

Jesus is your Righteousness. So, If you are born again, then you have Jesus's Righteousness in place of your unrighteousness.
Being "in Christ" means you are BECOME the Righteousness of Christ. This happened because God MADE YOU RIGHTEOUS when you FIRST BELIEVED and were Born Again.. And in fact, you are exactly the same Righteousness as Christ, right now, and forever, if you are born again.

Being SAVED, means you have Jesus in your heart, and in your Body. Being Saved is to become in Spiritual UNION with God's Holy Spirit. "ONE" with God and Christ.= Born again.

Jesus said He will never leave you.. Being Redeemed means you have Jesus's Righteousness, in place of your unrighteousness. God dying as Jesus on the Cross is how God accomplished this for you. Jesus's sacrifice of Himself for you on the Cross, is how His Righteousness is given.... God then takes this Righteousness and offers it as = "For God so loved the world, that He GAVE"..... And everyone who will call on the Name of Jesus, believing in their heart the Gospel, ... God sees each heart that does this, accepts this faith AS Righteousness, and He then takes The very righteousness of Himself, which is Christ's righteousness, and (imputes) GIVES IT TO YOU, and it becomes you. You as the "new creation in Christ" is you becoming God's very righteousness. Born again INTO IT and IT BECOMING YOU as the "New Creation".. "Christ in you", is what causes this, and you being "in Christ" is the eternal result.

And then it gets even better. Thats right, it gets even better. .....

First lets look at some words that actually mean "Grace", which actually mean "Jesus". First...Understand that Jesus is Grace. God's Grace IS Jesus...
Jesus is Salvation.
Jesus is Righteousness.
Jesus is the Blood Atonement.
Jesus is Redemption...
Jesus is Eternal Life So, if you have Him inside you, if you are born again, then you have all those inside you, also. = Hallelujah !! .... And because Jesus said He will NEVER LEAVE YOU, then all of those concepts, that are your "Christ in you" reality..... are also never going to leave you. Not ever.

Simplified ?? = Because Jesus will never leave you, then Redemption, Eternal Life, The Blood Atonement, Justification, Sanctification, also will NEVER LEAVE YOU.

So, do you see how God's Grace just keeps getting better and better? All of that is in you, because Jesus, who will never leave you, is in you.

-------------------------------------------------

And here is the icing. Here is the pièce de résistance........ Philippians 1:6

""""Being confident of this very thing, that God which hath begun your Salvation in you will Himself perform it, until the day of Jesus Christ""

Saint......Notice this verse carefully, as its a Gold Mine found in a universe of Glorious Hallelujah's .

This verse is one of the greatest verses in the bible, maybe the greatest verse in the New Testament, outside of "God is Love and For God so loved that He gave, Jesus."

This verse is telling you something, very very very important. Seal it in your heart. Deeply.
Its telling you, that you can have Confidence in the reality, and the truth, regarding the FACT that God HIMSELF who started your Salvation, (made you Righteous) is Himself Going to Complete it for you..."FAITHFULLY".. until you meet Jesus.

So what is the simple understanding of this verse? It means that God's salvation, that is given to YOU as a Gift, is all in His hands to complete for you, and He promises He will.
It means that YOU DONT COMPLETE IT....... He DOES !!

What you do, is try to please God with your life, that is your Discipleship, but that is not your Salvation. Your salvation is for God to complete, after Christ has become "Christ in you".

Do you want the Koine Greek, and the Ghetto version, understanding? Do you want it right across the plate so that you can give it your best swing?
Saint, this verse means, that God created HIS Salvation, that you dont control. A Grace, that you dont maintain. A Redemption that you dont supervise. Its simply means that God created His righteous merciful GRACE that saved you, so that you can't mess it up after you are Born Again.

And that is why you can't lose your salvation. Its because God who started it, is the Same God who will FAITHFULLY finish it FOR YOU.



Philippians 1:6

This verse is simply teaching that The God who saved you, will Himself, keep you saved..... And as the verse tells you, you are to have CONFIDENCE IN GOD to do it.

 

[KingdomSon]

I agree completely and well said. And I believe we are justified by the blood of Jesus. Once justified we are saved.

 

[theophilus]

I believe we should try to show men their need for salvation without having to portray them as evil-doers, when in reality often they do good.

Unsaved people may do good things but that doesn't mean they are good. They have to understand this before they will see their need of salvation.

 

[Behold]

I agree completely and well said. And I believe we are justified by the blood of Jesus. Once justified we are saved.

Amen !
Thats "right believing".

We understand that The same Jesus who saved us, keeps us saved.
Can God fail?
Many heretics think so.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Unsaved people may do good things but that doesn't mean they are good. They have to understand this before they will see their need of salvation.

"Good" is a term loaded with semantics. We have to understand how the term is being used in *context.* For example, Cornelius in Acts was viewed both by God and by men as a "good man." This doesn't mean, however, he was *good enough* to inherit the Kingdom of Christ. He needed Christ in his heart, ie the New Nature of Christ, in order to qualify for heaven.

It isn't good enough to just be good generally. We need to have a whole new nature planted inside us that is acceptable to God for heaven. That's why Peter was led to preach salvation to Cornelius, so that he would become more than a "good man"--God wanted him to be saved, and to be assured of his salvation. He wanted an *eternal relationship* with Cornelius, which is what salvation is.

 

[justbyfaith]

For example, Cornelius in Acts was viewed both by God and by men as a "good man."

Barnabas was said to be good (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

Cornelius was not said to be good.

Barnabas was good in that he bore the fruit of the Spirit--goodness (Galatians 5:22-23).

But those who are not indwelt by God cannot be said to be good...for the scripture declares that there is no one good but God (Luke 18:19).

This is no contradiction; for the good that was found in Barnabas was the fruit of God in his life.

 

[KingdomSon]

Amen !
Thats "right believing".

We understand that The same Jesus who saved us, keeps us saved.
Can God fail?
Many heretics think so.

God will keep us by his grace.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Barnabas was said to be good (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

Cornelius was not said to be good.

Barnabas was good in that he bore the fruit of the Spirit--goodness (Galatians 5:22-23).

But those who are not indwelt by God cannot be said to be good...for the scripture declares that there is no one good but God (Luke 18:19).

This is no contradiction; for the good that was found in Barnabas was the fruit of God in his life.

The goodness that is in *all men* comes from God, whether they are pagan or Christian. While it's true that only Christians produce fruit originating from a new spiritual nature, unbelievers still have a conscience and can unconciously serve the Word of God speaking to their conscience.

For example, we read this, when God spoke to Abimelek:
Gen 20.6 Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her."

 

[justbyfaith]

I just came away from my response to this on another thread, I will repeat it again here.

Cornelius was very likely the Centurion who encountered Jesus in Matthew 8:5-13; and therefore his righteousness was the righteousness of faith. This is consistent with the rest of holy scripture in light of your contention that he did good as an unbeliever. The answer is, he was not an unbeliever.

Furthermore, Romans 3:12 makes it clear that no one does good apart from salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Behold]

The goodness that is in *all men* comes from God, whether they are pagan or Christian. While it's true that only Christians produce fruit originating from a new spiritual nature, unbelievers still have a conscience and can unconciously serve the Word of God speaking to their conscience.

God does not accept anyone's "goodness" to accept them.
If He did, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself a lot of PAIN.
The CROSS, the agony that Christ suffered there, proves just how serious God is about our "sin situation".
Unbelievers might in fact do some good deeds, but they are not "good", as defined by God.

Sinners like to compare themselves to others....
God does not see it the same way.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God does not accept anyone's "goodness" to accept them.
If He did, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself a lot of PAIN.
The CROSS, the agony that Christ suffered there, proves just how serious God is about our "sin situation".
Unbelievers might in fact do some good deeds, but they are not "good", as defined by God.

Sinners like to compare themselves to others....
God does not see it the same way.

You're playing a semantics game here. God is both wanting Salvation and Good Works. Even with unsaved pagans, God wants from them "good works." They are either "good works," or they are not. And I believe pagans can do "good works."

To say God accepts them as "good works" does not mean He thinks it is good that they only do "good works" and are still "not saved." Let's not play that semantics game?

 

[justbyfaith]

You're playing a semantics game here. God is both wanting Salvation and Good Works. Even with unsaved pagans, God wants from them "good works." They are either "good works," or they are not. And I believe pagans can do "good works."

Rom 3:12, They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[justbyfaith]

I want to give a short teaching here.

Romans 3:10-18 is qualified by verses 9 and 19.

Compare Romans 3:9 to 1 Corinthians 10:32. There are three people groups in scripture: Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God. All are confined under sin; both Jews and Gentiles. But not the church of God.

Secondly, Romans 3:19 tells us that that law says what it says, to and about those who are under it. What does it say? the answer is found in Romans 3:10-18.

But believers in Christ are not under the law (Romans 6:14).

While unbelievers, Jew and Gentile alike, are under it.

The Gentiles may not have been given the laws of Judaism, but they will be found guilty because of what is written in the pages of the Old Testament and the New (the law; which consists of every moral teaching that can be found in the Bible)..

 

[Randy Kluth]

Rom 3:12, They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Yes, that referred to when Israel was in a state of apostasy. Paul was using that as an example of the best among nations going bad. This proved that if Israel had fallen into sin, being called of God, then all nations are equally sinful, and can fall the same way.

And why do they fall? It is because they all--every individual--are infected with the sin nature. That is Paul's argument--not that all nations and all individuals are in a state of perpetual wickedness, but that all nations and all individuals are susceptible to falling into wickedness, because all are infected with the sin nature.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, that referred to when Israel was in a state of apostasy. Paul was using that as an example of the best among nations going bad. This proved that if Israel had fallen into sin, being called of God, then all nations are equally sinful, and can fall the same way.

And why do they fall? It is because they all--every individual--are infected with the sin nature. That is Paul's argument--not that all nations and all individuals are in a state of perpetual wickedness, but that all nations and all individuals are susceptible to falling into wickedness, because all are infected with the sin nature.

No; Paul was using that verse out of the Old Testament in order to show forth the doctrine of the Total Depravity of the sinner.

Jeremiah 17:9 declares what is the state of the heart of an unbeliever.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No; Paul was using that verse out of the Old Testament in order to show forth the doctrine of the Total Depravity of the sinner.

Jeremiah 17:9 declares what is the state of the heart of an unbeliever.

False. That was the context of the passage upon which Paul built his case of human sinfulness. He was proving that the best among the nations eventually fall into gross sin, indicating all nations will unavoidably fall into gross sin. No nation can stop the inexorable march towards eventual collapse. It is because wherever there is a human individual, there will be this downward spiral leading to disaster.

Jeremiah also lived in a time of despicable wickedness, demonstrating that God's chosen nation had fallen to the depths of any depraved pagan nation. If Israel was no better than any other nation, all nations were equally susceptible to falling--indeed would inevitably fall. And that was because nations consist of individuals who have been corrupted by the sin nature.

This was Paul's argument, that all individuals are guilty of sin--not that they are always despicable. The inevitability of the fall of all nations into great corruption indicates that all nations consist of individuals who are diseased by sin. If some are worse than others, it is only because *all of us* have been infected with the spiritual disease of sin. It is not that we all exhibit horrible sins, or even make gross errors regularly, but that the fact some do exhibit these things indicates mankind, generally, has been poisoned with a sin nature.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not talking about the state of nations but of the hearts of men.

There is total depravity in every unregenerated heart (Jeremiah 17:9, Ephesians 2:1, 2 Corinthians 5:14).