Eternal Security

[justbyfaith]

How do you explain what the "Child" of Isaiah 9:6 is called. Do you believe it is referring to Jesus or not?

There Jesus is called "Wonderful Counselor - the same as the Holy Spirit; Mighty God; Everlasting Father; Prince of Peace.

Jesus is the form of the godhead bodily.

Yes; and that is found with a capital "G" in Colossians 2:9.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Just as (Rom. 5:13) says concerning sin. It is not imputed when there is no law. Though the sin was theirs, God did not impute it to them. So, though they are, God says they are not. It is the same with His righteousness. Though we are not, God says we are because He imputes His righteousness, the righteousness of Christ to us. It is not ours. It is Christ's.

I haven't been following your conversation with Stranger, so I don't know if you've covered this or not, but when you say we have the righteousness of Christ, what about sin? Do you believe that if we have Christ's righteousness we will still sin? Or do you believe as John did that a Christian cannot willfully sin?

 

[gadar perets]

How do you explain what the "Child" of Isaiah 9:6 is called. Do you believe it is referring to Jesus or not?

There Jesus is called "Wonderful Counselor - the same as the Holy Spirit; Mighty God; Everlasting Father; Prince of Peace.

Jesus is the form of the godhead bodily.

I just addressed this in post #1214. Yes, it refers to Yeshua.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree with everything you wrote except the last sentence. There is a gigantic difference between Yeshua being "Lord" and him being "LORD God" ("YHWH Elohim"). The fact that YHWH and Yeshua are both called "Lord" does not make them the same being any more than Yeshua and Cyrus both being called "Maschiach" makes them the same being.

There is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); and since God the Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), what do you make of the fact that no one can say that Jesus is that Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3)?

 

[Episkopos]

I haven't been following your conversation with Stranger, so I don't know if you've covered this or not, but when you say we have the righteousness of Christ, what about sin? Do you believe that if we have Christ's righteousness we will still sin? Or do you believe as John did that a Christian cannot willfully sin?

OUR righteousness is as filthy rags...it is imperfect and very lacking. But is the righteousness of God ALSO filthy rags? Many believers think so. But the righteousness of God has no sin whatsoever. Under the shadow of His wings we are made perfectly clean.

 

[Episkopos]

Anyone who preaches that the way to life is broad (see Matthew 7:13-14) does not have the Spirit; because they are preaching a false gospel (2 Corinthians 11:3-4, Galatians 1:6-9).

I am speaking far beyond what you have been indoctrinated into believing here...

There is eternal life...now. And then there is the judgment of the world at the end of this age. Did you know that there is a difference?..because you are treating everything the same.

So then only in Christ do we enter into eternal life....NOW.. But God will be merciful towards whom He wills. (Did you know that is written in the bible?)

Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

On Whom???? On whom He wills...not you...not your understanding or opinions..

So then you are completely unqualified to judge...Actually be careful that your own heart is not hardened into this religious posture that knows no mercy or love.

 

[Stranger]

I have both the bible and the Spirit. it is better to have more than one reference when taking a bearing. if you took the time to check out what I'm writing you would see that it is biblical....and spiritual. A lot of people write biblical sounding things....but there is no life in it. one must look for the life in the doctrines...and the righteous judgments of God.

Friend

What, no dictionary?

I don't need much time to know the grace you preach is not grace.

Stranger

 

[Episkopos]

What, no dictionary?

I don't need much time to know the grace you preach is not grace.

Stranger

Your prejudices deceive you if you think you understand grace so much...when I have not seen you ever employ it on this forum. You are obsessed with your own sense of righteousness and exhibit no love. So then read back your own words....and ask others what they think.

A person that claims they would burn a brother at the stake (with green wood) has not come anywhere near the love of God. You really don't know yourself...or the word.

 

[Stranger]

Your prejudices deceive you if you think you understand grace so much...when I have not sen you ever employ it on this forum. You are obsessed with your own sense of righteousness and exhibit no love. So then read back your own words....and ask others what they think.

Again, what happened to the dictonary, you who are full of grace?

Sorry, but 'love' does not equate with 'righteousness'.

Stranger

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, since Adam sinned, man inherited his fallen nature. However, Jesus corrected this flaw.

We all still have sinful natures.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree with everything you wrote except the last sentence. There is a gigantic difference between Yeshua being "Lord" and him being "LORD God" ("YHWH Elohim"). The fact that YHWH and Yeshua are both called "Lord" does not make them the same being any more than Yeshua and Cyrus both being called "Maschiach" makes them the same being.

Amen.

 

[Episkopos]

We all still have sinful natures.

If we are born again we have new divine natures. But we also have a law in our members which compels us in a direction we don't want to go in.

The only way to overcome the law of sin is with a greater law....the law of life in Christ Jesus. His life ON us is stronger than the power of sin in us so that His love opens up the husk surrounding our hearts to let the full love of God out.

 

[BobRyan]

Pushing the idea of eternal security flys in the face of faith, grace and replaces them with a transaction. It is an attempt to control God. You guys really think that on Judgment Day, Jesus is going to look at a wicked heart and then, listen to it’s owner who demands Him to honor some contract? Transactions, contract, and vacious law are all part of the false self - the true self is the part of us Jesus knows

And in Jeremiah 18 God says His promises are conditional.
In Ezekiel 18 we are told that when the righteous turns - to rebellion - they will be lost.
In Matthew 18 we have the example of "forgiveness revoked" - full and complete forgiveness -- later revoked.
In Romans 11 we have the warning given "you stand only by our faith - ... you should fear for if He did not spare them (fallen Jews) neither will He spare you... to you His kindness IF you continue otherwise you will be cut off"

 

[BobRyan]

If we are born again we have new divine natures.

We have two natures once we are born again. The "new creation" - the heart to know God.. where the LAW of God is written on heart and mind under the New Covenant.... and we also have the old sinful nature. And those two natures are at war with each other as Paul points out in Romans 7.

But we also have a law in our members which compels us in a direction we don't want to go in.

Yes - the two natures pull in different directions.

The only way to overcome the law of sin is with a greater law....the law of life in Christ Jesus. His life ON us is stronger than the power of sin in us so that His love opens up the husk surrounding our hearts to let the full love of God out.

True He is greater but we must daily "choose"

 

[APAK]

I just fell upon this...
John 1:2
HE was in the beginning with God...
this might be IT was in the beginning with God, which would be referring to the word, which is an IT and not a WHO.

Verse 3,,,all things came into being by IT. God spoke WORDS and the things He spoke came into being. In IT was life...in the WORD OF GOD.

Then in verse 9 John states that the true light came into the world and enlightened every man. Is this light still an IT? No, because then in verse 10 it says that the world did not know Him and in verse 11 John states that SOMETHING came to its own. Could this still be an IT?? It sounds more like a HE.

Verse 14....the WORD became FLESH.
Does this not refer to John 1:1?

This is how I understand that the WORD OF GOD,,,His thoughts,,,His words spoken...became flesh and that flesh is Jesus who always existed as the Word.

P.S. I'm not posting in response to your "put up or shut up"...I never would shout down gadar perets. He's an incredibly knowledgeable person...whether or not one agrees with him.

GodsGrace: You are at least more to the point that some other folks that beat around, or at least will not attempt to answer directly, because they really do not know how to answer. I just wish they were more honest and say this as fact.

Now John Chapter 1 is the touchstone for the Trinitarian thought and its foundation. If especially John 1:1-14 is shown to be a non-trinitarian thought, then the entire model or theory can be dumped into the trash.

The entire John Chapter 1 must be looked at as a whole, and in context. Meaning who is the subject and object in each verse, and what is the point of what John was conveying. Was it to be very different from the other reporters where only John was just trying to make a statement that Jesus was God or the word? I do not think so. That would be quite shallow of John. It does not follow his style and other Chapters.

All the other reporters and other reports not in our hands today reported on the execution of the plan of salvation, beginning with the arrival of John the Baptist, the gospel on earth and by God using his son to complete the essential part of this plan.

Now John I admit was more poetic and symbolic in the use of his language. John wanted to tell us that God is the true savior, planner, mover and shaker of our salvation since creation of this world and before time. John wanted to include this preamble and stress this point in his opening words.

So, let me cursory address your verse 3 and 14…

John 1: 1-3 is about the mind of God in action as he used it along with his in-exhaustive attributes of his own spirit to create everything in existence. John wanted to ensure the reader knew this before presenting John the Baptist. John also then wanted to ensure we knew that God transferred his word (plan/purpose) into the person, Jesus. He was born to serve God and save God’s creation. This man Jesus had to be born special and possess the power of God, and he did. He glorified God per scripture.

Unfortunately, this meaning was lost because of a few deliberate alterations by those trinitary-biased translators. For example, they changed the neuter form of the Greek to English word ‘it’ into ‘he’ to conform to their new made-up meaning of ‘word’ that ‘word’ meant the person of Jesus. Once this was done and sold, John’s meaning was overridden and mostly lost. This forced and made Jesus as the creator instead of God Almighty. This made the creation of everything by a created being.

This made the true meaning of verse 14a at least, lost. That God’s mind, character and extensive power was placed into a human being (as his image) to execute the crucial portion of the plan of our salvation. This propagated initial error in verses 1-3 at least, made the creature (Jesus, the born man) the creator in verse 14. And when you do this, the context of John’s words becomes nonsense as well.


As I said GodsGrace, these devious translators corrupted John Chapter 1 by altering the meaning of ‘logos.’ 95% of the meaning of ‘logos’ today, in print is shrouded in mystery, snobbery and confusing text/talk and articles that NEVER say directly why ‘logos’ was changed to suit the trinity model. They just start their writings - premises and axioms, implicitly or explicitly that it is an historical fact that ‘logos’ is Jesus without any question or dispute. It’s a shame Luther never killed this dangerous theory imported from the Catholics. It is meant to be the so-called mystery theory that all must believe in…based on blind faith.

I for one will see Jesus and be totally in his spirit in the next life. I will be as a child and an adopted son of God because of my spirit bonded in Jesus, and not directly in God. There is a reason why we are and can ONLY BE ‘in Christ’ and not ‘in God.’ I guess folks might even have a hard time with that one. They are not the same thing….completely off topic now….

Salvation/eternal security is the OP and I agree with RT on this one….and ironically it is based and because of my non-Trinitarian view and beliefs.

Bless you,


APAK

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We all still have sinful natures.

Only IF we do not have the Spirit of Christ in us.

What? Afraid to read the rest of my post?

 

[justbyfaith]

This forced and made Jesus as the creator instead of God Almighty.

Jesus is God Almighty (John 8:58-59, John 10:31-33, Exodus 3:14, Hebrews 1:8-9, etc.).

I for one will see Jesus and be totally in his spirit in the next life.

No you will not, unless you repent of your unbelief concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ. If you fail to believe that Jesus is the great I AM, you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

Only IF we do not have the Spirit of Christ in us.

What? Afraid to read the rest of my post?

Did Paul not have the Spirit of Christ in him when he wrote Romans 7:18? I guess this question would be a rhetorical one since @1stCenturyLady has me on ignore.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am speaking far beyond what you have been indoctrinated into believing here...

I have never been "indoctrinated" except by personal Bible reading and qualified people who have the spiritual gift of teaching. And it is one of my main prayers that I might only believe what is sound doctrine of the Lord's word. See also 1 Timothy 4:16 and Acts of the Apostles 17:11...I try to take the noble-minded approach of the Bereans in all of my understanding of the Bible.

So then you are completely unqualified to judge...

See 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 and Philippians 1:9 (kjv).

 

[djstav]

That is a lie. You don't care if you offend Christians or not. I am not worried if you don't believe in God. That is up to you. You came here, remember?

You can't have friendship with believers because your goal is to cast doubt on the believers faith. You do not believe in Jesus Christ, we have no friendship with you. Pretty simple.

If you reject Jesus Christ, fine. Why are you still here?

Stranger

I doubt very much I'd reject the true God of the universe if he made himself known to me. Why would I even have a choice to say no to the most loving being in the universe? That's if God is actually love to begin with.

 

[Stranger]

I doubt very much I'd reject the true God of the universe if he made himself known to me. Why would I even have a choice to say no to the most loving being in the universe? That's if God is actually love to begin with.

Now you lie to yourself. You don't care if God is love or whatever. You want nothing to do with God Whoever He is. And you come here and peddle your unbelief and hatred of God under the facade of 'poor me if I could only know'.

You spoke earlier of why must there be a hell. There is a hell because there is God. Thus either way you lose because Heaven is just as much hell for you as hell will be. The very presence of God will be hell for you. And God is the King and Ruler over hell also.

You don't want God, you don't get Him. So what are you doing here?

Stranger