Eternal Security?

[Nancy]

Eternal life is Christ's Life.

 

[faithfulness]

Eternal life is Christ's Life.

Amen. It's a KIND of life, not a length of time

 

[VictoryinJesus]

....is a man-made slogan...possibly made up by a converted used car salesman. It is from a very human perspective as it seeks guarantees.

But why can't God be trusted to do what is right?

Do we rely on a guarantee that's proof against God's judgments?

In the world we look for guarantees because we don't trust the word of a man or business.

But the only guarantee that exists in the universe is trusting God.

There IS security in walking by the Spirit. We know that when we are in God's presence there is security. But does that mean we can't come out of the Spirit? Of course not. But they who have faith in God are already secure in Him. HE is eternal security. There is no eternal security for having certain beliefs. That is a strawman.

Eternal life is a kind of life.

The people who are not secure in God...but look for security doctrines are actually spiritually INSECURE. That is why they obsess over security. Any challenge to what they are doing causes them to freak out...since their trust is in verses and not in God. It is better to not worry about security at all....but trust God.

The just walk by faith...not security. TRUST GOD. But if someone is weak in the faith and needs to feel secure about God...seek His face and enter into the Spirit...where one can experience eternal life.

Not to get in to a long discussion... but here we do differ. Isaiah 40:10-11
[10] Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand , and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. [11] He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

“Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him:” -Christ.

“...behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.” Being “his work” which is us. We walk before the Lord always, in His light.

Isaiah 62:11-12
[11] Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. [12] And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord : and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

Again “his work before him.” To say one can be removed from his work before him...is to deny the power of His work.

John 4:34
[34] Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.


Psalm 89:15
[15] Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord , in the light of thy countenance.

We walk before the Lord in the light of God’s countenance.

Ephesians 2:10
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. —that which is created in Christ Jesus can not be uncreated.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not to get in to a long discussion... but here we do differ.

could you rephrase how you are differing there ViJ, restate your objection or something? ty
i'm not seeing how you are addressing the "false security" point

 

[VictoryinJesus]

could you rephrase how you are differing there ViJ, restate your objection or something? ty

I believe once one has been born of God, they can not be unborn of God. That is eternal security. What is it everyone calls it OSAS?

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe once one has been born of God, they can not be unborn of God. That is eternal security.

strictly speaking i might even agree with you, yes; all 12 ppl who are alive on earth and currently born of God cannot be unborn, i agree

What is it everyone calls it OSAS?

ah, now imo this is a completely diff animal, that leads to songs like "when we all get to heaven" and other comforting lies
that Scripture does not support imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

strictly speaking i might even agree with you, yes; all 12 ppl who are alive on earth and currently born of God cannot be unborn, i agree
ah, now imo this is a completely diff animal, that leads to songs like "when we all get to heaven" and other comforting lies
that Scripture does not support imo

Yes, it is complicated when it shouldn’t be. Maybe coming into the thread late I’ve misunderstood it.

 

[Episkopos]

I believe once one has been born of God, they can not be unborn of God. That is eternal security. What is it everyone calls it OSAS?

God doesn't create people imperfectly. But people change. Even Satan was once perfect...before he fell.

So it is with born again people. About half will be rejected as they are born of God....but do not follow Christ as they should. They turn back from suffering....they turn away from the narrow way to enjoy their own lives.

Look at Israel....not all who are of Israel are Israel. Many are rejected.

So it is with the church. Many are called but few are chosen. And fewer still are called, chosen, AND faithful. So then the race whittles down the ones still in the running for the prize. That is why smugness is so dangerous. The OSAS doctrine is for non-runners.

Many believers take the first step in the race...and then stop. Many others take a step or 2 but turn back. The only security we have is ....ever forward!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God doesn't create people imperfectly. But people change. Even Satan was once perfect...before he fell.

So it is with born again people. About half will be rejected as they are born of God....but do not follow Christ as they should. They turn back from suffering....they turn away from the narrow way to enjoy their own lives.

Look at Israel....not all who are of Israel are Israel. Many are rejected.

So it is with the church. Many are called but few are chosen. And fewer still are called, chosen, AND faithful. So then the race whittles down the ones still in the running for the prize. That is why smugness is so dangerous. The OSAS doctrine is for non-runners.

Many believers take the first step in the race...and then stop. Many others take a step or 2 but turn back. The only security we have is ....ever forward!

His yoke is light though. In no way do I mean nothing changes because everything changes when the heart does. But, and this is just an opinion; maybe God does it this way so I can be LESS focused on self: prepping me, grooming me, maintaining me, watching over me...doesn’t he set free from the “me” part so I can finally see and look toward the increase of another’s treasure instead of my own?

About the “chosen” being few...consider Gideon and countless others like it: cutting (sifting) an army down in size. God can do more with a few than man can do with many.

Proverbs 31:30
[30] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord , she shall be praised.

The virtuous woman: Proverbs 31:31
[31] Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

“her own works” but whose works are they really? Are they not her husbands? That is all I’m saying. You can’t rest in Him when you are always trying your hardest to hold onto something others tell you is lost. He said he came for that which was lost for it to be found.

 

[Episkopos]

His yoke is light though. In no way do I mean nothing changes because everything changes when the heart does. But, and this is just an opinion; maybe God does it this way so I can be LESS focused on self: prepping me, grooming me, maintaining me, watching over me...doesn’t he set free from the “me” part so I can finally see and look toward the increase of another’s treasure instead of my own?

Not many choose the narrow way. Not many are interested in renewing their minds. Not many become living sacrifices for God. Most maintain their self-interest and follow their own ways...in the face of being shown God's goodness and grace. Grace can be deceitful. People stumble over Christ.

We are members one of another. WE have the mind of Christ. Who cares who gets the gift as long as the Lord is glorified.

About the “chosen” being few...consider Gideon and countless others like it: cutting (sifting) an army down in size. God can do more with a few than man can do with many.

Proverbs 31:30
[30] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord , she shall be praised.

The virtuous woman: Proverbs 31:31
[31] Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

“her own works” but whose works are they really? Are they not her husbands? That is all I’m saying. You can’t rest in Him when you are always trying your hardest to hold onto something others tell you is lost. He said he came for that which was lost for it to be found.

Amen! Our desire is for our Master.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Not many become living sacrifices for God.

Not many but few are chosen to become living sacrifices for God? Living sacrifices for who? Why put us on the altar as living sacrifices?

Genesis 18:17-18
[17] And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; [18] Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Luke 6:46
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[Episkopos]

Not many but few are chosen to become living sacrifices for God? Living sacrifices for who? Why put us on the altar as living sacrifices?

Genesis 18:17-18
[17] And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; [18] Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Luke 6:46
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

If God says to you...go fetch some water....and to another....go fetch some bread and you are more concerned with bread than with water...are you being faithful to God?

So then many have been given grace. But most waste and frustrate this grace... so they are not fit to serve Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If God says to you...go fetch some water....and to another....go fetch some bread and you are more concerned with bread than with water...are you being faithful to God?

So then many have been given grace. But most waste and frustrate this grace... so they are not fit to serve Christ.

That wasn’t an answer to why living sacrifices, Episkopos. God tells me to go fetch the enemies. Those I should despise. Is that insane to believe God will deliver my enemies into life everlasting? Because I’ve been told some are impossible. But that is what Christ did...isn’t it? The impossible: you and me.

Genesis 22:17-18
[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; [18] And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

 

[Episkopos]

That wasn’t an answer to why living sacrifices, Episkopos. God tells me to go fetch the enemies. Those I should despise. Is that insane to believe God will deliver my enemies into life everlasting? Because I’ve been told some are impossible. But that is what Christ did...isn’t it? The impossible: you and me.

Genesis 22:17-18
[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; [18] And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

We are called into the impossible so we can have a testimony of faith in heaven. We are in a great arena....and we are the players. The audience is the crowd of witnesses in the heavenly places...

As we engage this life with the grace God that gives us....we strengthen our faith and character in order to better serve the Lord. We go from faith to FAITH. We go from glory to GLORY.

God be praised!

 

[amadeus]

Even if I was a Christian for 80 years I would still see the gospel as conditional to faith/faithfulness

My pastor, age 93, received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1936 and has been serving God as a Christian ever since. I think that exceeds your 80 year suggestion already. He agrees with your point.

 

[bbyrd009]

The truth is that Jesus Christ died for past, present and future sins, and to think that we must do something more to add to that is false.

You have it backwards. Where is what you say in the bible?

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. So imo there is where. But forgiveness did not save Adam and Eve, as we can plainly see @ "Who told you that you were naked?" and "here, have a skin then," and it won't save anyone who does not confess either i guess.

Ppl who carry unconfessed sin are forgiven already, but they are still going to hide when the light shines, as we can even observe irl right, "we knew that we were naked, and so we hid." I'm not sure why believers are so resistant to this, they have no probs forgiving their own children easily enough i guess

Vengeance is mine, says the Lord bc God understands that vengeance is not even necessary, the evil will destroy themselves if they do not turn

 

[bbyrd009]

Why put us on the altar as living sacrifices?

hmm, notice no one is making anyone do this, this would be completely your choice.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

hmm, notice no one is making anyone do this, this would be completely your choice.

No, no one makes you. It is radical...His love.

 

[bbyrd009]

No, no one makes you. It is radical...His love.

so you might ask "why would anyone want to become a living sacrifice?" maybe, and go from there

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so you might ask "why would anyone want to become a living sacrifice?" maybe, and go from there

Ok...why would anyone want to become a living sacrifice?