Eternal Security

[Marvelloustime]

For there is NO , as in NO , as in NONE , other NAME whereby one may be saved .
TAKE that to the celestial bank . ITS SOLID TRUTH my friends . Let none be swayed by the all inclusive lie .
No other god , no other religion , can save YA . ONLY FAITH IN JESUS . cash in on the reward RIGHT NOW . I say to one i say to all .
Even if one gave all their money to the poor , fed many , yet rejected Christ , I tell us all that man will not have eternal life ,but
only the wrath of GOD abides on them . YE MUST BELEIVE IN JESUS .

Wise words. Praise the Lord.

 

[Wynona]

And of those Scriptures I've shown?

I'm not wanting to "play Scripture against Scripture", instead, I believe they harmonize. Scriptures correctly understood will harmonize with all others.

Much love!

Here is how they harmonize. The Scripture about appearing with Christ in glory is a promise for those who endure with faith till the end.

It is not for those who depart from the faith, as Scripture warns over and over can happen.

 

[marks]

Here is how they harmonize. The Scripture about appearing with Christ in glory is a promise for those who endure with faith till the end.

It is not for those who depart from the faith, as Scripture warns over and over can happen.

The two views are, I think, that either:

The born again may die again, and cease to be God's children

Some seem born again, and are not.

This passage,

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

The one condition given is, "if ye then be risen with Christ".

To those who are risen with Christ, they are instructed to, seek those things which are above, set your affecton an things above. The reason given is a description of those who have been risen with Christ. "Because you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

And then comes a prophecy, that is given to, and applies to, "ye . . . risen with Christ", that is, the born again,

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.

If you are risen with Him now, you will appear with Him then. There is no place given for some intervening time in which you may become dead again. Only, if you are risen with Him, you shall appear with Him. As prophecy, it will be fulfilled, and I trust that implicitly.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

For the sake of argument, let's say we put all theologians, pastors, and speakers aside and were willing to bear with a bit of Scripture.

What does the Bible say?

2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



But Wynona, you can't mean we can lose our salvation if we don't endure to the end!!

That's exactly what Scripture says.

Hebrews 3:6 KJV

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.



But Wynona, we can't fail on the grace of God...

But that's the thing

Hebrews 12:14-15 KJV

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Are there enough Scripture warnings to make us heed that we can depart from the faith(1 Timothy 4:1) ?

How much Scripture is needed to show that we can believe and later have an evil heart of unbelief (Hebrews 3:12-15)?

Are there a lot of Scriptures warning that we can cast off our first faith (1 Timothy 5:11-15)? You better believe it!

Can we fall from grace (Galatians 5: 1-4)?

Yes!!

March onwards in the LORD dear sister . Faithful to the final breath . The LORD is our hope .
Let no man sway you by doctrines of men . Stay faithful to what the true ones wrote in the bible . march on sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

Wise words. Praise the Lord.

march on in the LORD dear sister . To the last and final breath . You have seen the names of some .
And do notice they are going in the direction of the all inclusive . We must MARK and avoid those if they refuse to hear .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is no place given for some intervening time in which you may become dead again.

That would be here:

"I know your deeds; you have a reputation for being alive, yet you are dead. 2Wake up and strengthen what remains, which was about to die; for I have found your deeds incomplete in the sight of My God. 3Remember, then, what you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know the hour when I will come upon you.4But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk with Me in white. 5Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot outb his name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels." Revelation 3:1-5​

 

[GRACE ambassador]

If you are risen with Him now, you will appear with Him then. There is no place given for some intervening time in which you may become dead again. Only, if you are risen with Him, you shall appear with Him. As prophecy, it will be fulfilled, and I trust that implicitly.

Amen! God's Relationship * {HE "Established"} With us
{For ETERNAL Life!}, Is:

Constantly Confused with, His Calling for us to "fellowship with HIM, for
"rewards" {success}, OR: "loss of rewards" {failure}. Thus, no such
Biblical terminology as "temporary" life, Biblically Confirmed By, And
Harmonized With, At Least 12 DOZEN Plain And Clear Scriptures:

*
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Be Encouraged In Eternal Life And Assurance In The LORD JESUS CHRIST!

 

[marks]

That would be here:

"I know your deeds; you have a reputation for being alive, yet you are dead. 2Wake up and strengthen what remains, which was about to die; for I have found your deeds incomplete in the sight of My God. 3Remember, then, what you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know the hour when I will come upon you.4But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk with Me in white. 5Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot outb his name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels." Revelation 3:1-5​

This isn't, "Scripture against Scripture", though. It doesn't work that way.

Are you really saying the passages I've quoted don't actually mean what they say?

I suggest that if you correctly understand both, you'll find both true as written. Would you agree with that?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This isn't, "Scripture against Scripture", though. It doesn't work that way.

I never pit scripture against scripture.
What I do is examine one scripture in light of another.
In this case Revelation 3:1-5 makes it so you can't understand the Colossians 3:1-4 passage the way you do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Are you really saying the passages I've quoted don't actually mean what they say?

They mean what they say.
But what they say is to be understood only to the extent that other scripture allows them to be understood.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I suggest that if you correctly understand both, you'll find both true as written. Would you agree with that?

Yes, I agree with that. The key here being 'correctly'. You have to understand both correctly.
The task is to understand both so that they are in harmony with each other, not pitted against each other. And so in that way we would be correctly understanding both passages.

 

[marks]

The key here being 'correctly'.

And that would mean as stated for these sorts of indicative passages, in the normal meanings of the words used, again, do we agree?

Much love!

 

[marks]

They mean what they say.
But what they say is to be understood only to the extent that other scripture allows them to be understood.

This sounds like you are about to tell me that one of them doesn't really mean what the words say, based on your understanding of another passage. That's normally where I see this line of thought go. Am I right?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The task is to understand both so that they are in harmony with each other,

According to this passage . . .

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Is there anyone who has been "raised with Christ", being "dead", who will NOT appear with Christ in glory?

This is a yes or no question, dare you answer?

I have no problem answering, in fact, no, there is no one who has been raised with Christ who will not appear with Him.

Unless I were willing to state that this verse is wrong, there is simply no other conclusion you can reach. If you've been raised with Him, you will appear with Him in glory.

The real question is, do you believe this is true? Do you believe it means something other than what I'm presenting?

It says was it says, it means what it means.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I never pit scripture against scripture.
What I do is examine one scripture in light of another.
In this case Revelation 3:1-5 makes it so you can't understand the Colossians 3:1-4 passage the way you do.

Perhaps you might explain how either Colossians 3:1-3 doen't mean what I've presented. And perhaps you might explain how Revelation 3:1-5 contradicts the plain sense of Colossians 3:1-3, because I'm not seeing it.

And it sounds to me that you are in fact trying to "pit Scripture against Scripture". You would refute my presentation of a passage - not what I understand - as it is stated, by giving a reference, an no other explanation.

I guess I agree though . . . is it really worth the effort to try to show how such a plainly stated verse doesn't mean what it says?

If are risen with Him, you will appear with Him, that's just the simple statement from the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Perhaps you might explain how either Colossians 3:1-3 doen't mean what I've presented. And perhaps you might explain how Revelation 3:1-5 contradicts the plain sense of Colossians 3:1-3, because I'm not seeing it.

It's simple.
The promises/prophecies of God concerning salvation are conditioned on continued believing. And so the promise/prophecy of Colossians 3:1-4 is absolutely 100% true...as long as you continue to be a believer.

From there you many want to argue that the true believer will always believe and that he can't stop believing. I'm fine with that, if that's the conclusion you have come to. I don't agree with it, but you are certainly entitled to hold that belief. It doesn't change the fact that the promises are only true and ironclad for the one who is believing and continues to believe, so I don't feel any need to try to dissuade you from that view of the matter.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And it sounds to me that you are in fact trying to "pit Scripture against Scripture". You would refute my presentation of a passage - not what I understand - as it is stated, by giving a reference, an no other explanation.

All I was doing was showing you that you can't take one piece of scripture without considering all the other pieces of scripture.
The task now is to see how these two pieces of scripture can both be true at the same time despite the fact that they seem to contradict each other (when interpreted as you have done).

What I have found is the question of eternal security gets answered when you 1) know what the Biblical definition of eternal security actually is, and 2) you know that possessing that eternal security is conditioned on being a believer and remaining one to the very end. #2 should be no problem whatsoever for traditional Calvinist kind of thinking. It defends the need to keep believing to the very end to be saved. It just says the believer has no choice but to believe to the very end. And so it in no way says you are still eternally secure even if you stop believing, like Hyper Grace theology teaches.

 

[marks]

All I was doing was showing you that you can't take one piece of scripture without considering all the other pieces of scripture.
The task now is to see how these two pieces of scripture can both be true at the same time despite the fact that they seem to contradict each other (when interpreted as you have done).

There is no contradiction. You've stated there is, what is it?

I'm saying, this passage, is true. You seem to think it's not.

But you aren't saying why. I'm inviting you to address the passage itself, Colossians 3:1-3, and it's statement that if you have been raised with Christ, you will appear with Him.

Are you claiming it doesn't say that? Or that it's not true?

I'm saying this is what it says, and I believe it to be true.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I guess I agree though . . . is it really worth the effort to try to show how such a plainly stated verse doesn't mean what it says?

It is worth the effort if one's theology leads them to believe they continue to possess the salvation that is eternally secure even if they stop believing. But outside of that reason, traditional OSAS theology has always defended the necessity to continue to believe in order to be saved. So, as long as one has that conviction there really is no reason to argue if one can really lose eternal security or not. Calvinist theology also says you were never really saved to begin with if you, by all outward appearances, stop believing.

The important matter of continued believing is preserved in Calvinist OSAS. So as far as traditional Calvinist OSAS theology goes it's not really worth debating the matter of whether one can lose their salvation or not. It may be a curious matter, but it is meaningless in the light of the fact that both traditional OSAS and non-OSAS both agree on the necessity of continued believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If are risen with Him, you will appear with Him, that's just the simple statement from the Bible.

It is simple.
But it's also not the last word on the subject.
You remain in Him if you continue to believe.
But who cares since we both agree that you have to continue to believe in order to appear with him when he returns.

The person who needs to be set straight is the person who thinks they can stop believing and they will still have the promise of appearing with him when he returns.