Gotcha, anyone who does not appreciate the layout of our posts is against God's grace.
I haven't ever heard anyone try to use that kind of reasoning before.
Every branch that bears fruit is pruned. - John 15
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I haven't ever heard anyone try to use that kind of reasoning before.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You changed (spun) my words to suit your pov.
Gotcha.
If you like...We can talk about my "reasoning" after you answer the question..
Do i really have to keep asking you?
See what happens is......members find this and Mods, and then they discover you..,. the real you.
So, its best to answer it, before we get to #5 - #10,.... in that case.
Its not a trick question., is a simple question and it blew St.Steven's mind......totally.
Episkopos.......he really can't answer it, because, He has issues with The Cross of Christ, that precludes Him from being able to discuss God's Redempiton through Christ... or any similar question related to HOW God saves a sinner.
So, again..
Do you believe that Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved... = no matter your behavior after you are saved ??
No, I didnt do that, I addressed the layout of your posts whereas you come back and spun what I stated and went off on those who do that have an issue with the Grace of God. That was just weird.
You can keep going if you would like, I gave my answers according to what is written, you can either keep trying to gainsay them or continuing creating strawmen and pretend I havent answered thats on you.
I answered I stand by them, you refute those scriptures if you feel they are incorrect.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You asked me to show you the verse that you posted that you didnt understand.
I told you that every verse that you post that you dont explain, .. = you dont understand.
Understand?
You then posted some unrelated nothing that made a comment about the way i post my sentences.
I then told you that my sentences are confusing to people who do not understand God's Grace, whereas people who do understand the Grace of God have no issue with my sentences.
So, i hope this clears up your confusion....
You still have not answered MY question.
Here it is again for you...@Truly
And no, i have no issue with asking you a few more times, as i want the members and the Mods to see you keep dodging it.
Q.) Do you believe that Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved... = no matter your behavior after you are saved ??
I answered it already, as I keep telling you if you work iniquity you will depart from him as the verse I posted says, and you can keep asking all you want but I believe what Jesus shows.
And no, I do not believe that we can willfully keep on sinning and enter the Kingdom of God
Paul
Ephes 5:3-6 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
1Cr 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And Paul adds (concerning being washed)
(10) And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Peter
2Peter 2:20-22 For IF AFTER they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to
her wallowing in the mire.
But Peter also adds (concerning the washed)
(22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Ephes 5:3-6 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
1Cr 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And Paul adds (concerning being washed)
(10) And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Peter
2Peter 2:20-22 For IF AFTER they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to
her wallowing in the mire.
But Peter also adds (concerning the washed)
(22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Behold
Well-Known Member
That is a verse you posted before i asked you the question....
So, here is the thing...
Before i asked you my question, i explained to you that the "disciples" in your "depart" verse are not Christians..
How do you know?
Because there are no Christians found in the bible, before Christ died on The Cross = to birth Christianity.
However, there were OT saints like Abraham and Noahm, who had received God's Righteousness.
Your verse is talking about "disciples" who were not Christians.......as Christ had not died on The Cross to begin Christianity, when your verse was given by Jesus.
So, your verse wont work as a correct answer, regarding my Question.
And the reason you believe that you can lose God's Salvation, ....is because you believe that your Salvation is only as valid as your BEHAVIOR is Good.........so, if you have Bad Behaivor you lose your salvation, and if you have good little boy behaivor you hope you can keep yourself saved by your behavior.
So, that is not Faith in Christ and that is proof that you do not Understand Salvation. @Truly
You dont like that verse apparently
I cannot read that sentense
How do I know what?
A disciple of Jesus Christ was simply called "Christian"
What on earth are you getting at?
There WERE christians, as they are the same as those who followed Jesus Christ
He had disciples before he went to the cross
He is also called THE WAY they are said to have followed
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that AFTER THE WAY which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets
Thats common knowledge
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Christian is a name given to the disciples of Jesus Christ, thats all that is
Acts 11:26 And the disciples WERE CALLED Christians first in Antioch.
Jesus said, I am the way, Paul said,
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that AFTER THE WAY which they call heresy so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets
They are synonomous
Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be A CHRISTIAN
You make zero sense to me
So says you.
Yawn.
I dont believe those who continue to work iniquity or those who continue in willful sin remain with Jesus Christ, no.
Behold
Well-Known Member
What God doesn't like is people who can't understand Salvation, and so they want to deny it by twisting bible verses
Thats you.
Before Jesus died on The Cross, the followers of Jesus were not Christians.
They were only "disciples".
Jesus defines a "disciple" as someone who "keeps my word"..and that is not how you become a CHRISTian.
So, all those who are in your "depart from me, i never knew you" verse........ were not Christians.
See, God does not Get rid of Christians.....but He does allow Christ rejectors who are never born again, to enter 2nd Death after they die
NO Cross, = No Christianity started.
See, you can't have Christianity, until CHRIST has offered Himself to God, for the sin of the world, on THE Cross.
Your "depart from me". verse...... was given before Christ had died on The Cross to birth Christianity.
They were not Christians until Jesus dies on The Cross.
They were just disciples.. (followers of Jesus)........not yet become Christians.
Jesus is : The Way, and the Truth, and the Life, as John 14:6 explains......and that verse was after Jesus was Crucified and Rose again, and was back in Heaven.
"Christian", is the TITLE given to Born again CHRISTIANS. not to old Covenant Disciples.
None of the Disciples were CHRISTIANS, when Jesus was perfoming His ministry to the Jews., as He had not died On The Cross .
See, CHRISTIANITY, begins with Jesus Death and Resurrection.
Jesus had died on The Cross before they were called Christians at Antioch....so, that is why they were called "Christians".
And how exactly was it twisted when I just posted the verse?
That is not how the word christian is used,
John 4:1-3 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
He also said,
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed
This shows us that Jesus had disciples, and speaks of the continuance in his word
These are continuing in the same
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch Acts 11:26
Correct
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Christians are what the disciples were called, that holds absolutely no water at all.
And this was written after the cross
2 Cr 2:10 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
It was likely just a good guess since Paul was supposed to forget this one??
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Maybe Jesus on the last day will take back his words he had spoken here?
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. |
Again, Jesus deleting this?
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Disciples ARE followers of Christ, they WERE CALLED Christians, your reasoning makes zero sense
They were following Jesus Christ before he went to the cross, your reasoning is unsound as the Father was speaking through the Son (who is the way)
Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The way, Jesus Christ sat with sinners, because the LORD would teach sinners by Jesus
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
They were just called Christians
A Christian is a follower after the way, or Christians, or a disciple of Christ.
No, they were following him before his death and resurrection, and were simply called christians after. The word christian is only found three times, in Acts 11:26 in the generic sense of the word concerning what the disciples were called first, starting in Antioch. And out of the mouth of King Agrippa in Acts 26:28 when he says unto Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" and in 1 Peter 4:16 when Peter said, Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed
They were still called disciples far more then they were ever called christians after his death. That was a name given to his disciples
I would love to sit here and wrangle with you endlessly over all these big nothings here (not really though). It really becomes an endless back and forth thing with you (as I recall formerly). So you can keep your views and I will keep mine, because you have convinced me of nothing.
Edit :fixed sentence
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So you believe that if you willfully sin after you have been saved you have lost your salvation forever. I pity you. and you still refused to answer my question from you. You hide behind a bunch of scriptures without giving me your answer. Have the last word.
You disagree with this?
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
No, I stand behind the LORD's words and refuse to give you another answer other than His
I am to study to answer, and I have chosen His words for my answer
Proverbs 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
It's a good thing, that
1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% with this. but in its proper context and not like you and legions of others who believe that Jesus did not die for all your skins so you can lose your salvation falsely believe what it says!
This is not a verse on soteriology at all!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So you should not be here trying to tewch people. If you can only give Scri[ptures without expalining, you have no business coming up with proclamations about the word!
You are very shallow.
The context of the conversation was continuing to sin, the verse posted was answer to continuing to willfully sin.
1 Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures
ALL HAVE sinned, and
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 5:8 BUT God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while WE WERE YET sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:6 For WHEN WE WERE YET without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might DELIVER US from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might REDEEM US from all iniquity, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
But we are warned,
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully AFTER that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
God raised up His Son for this purpose
Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in TURNING AWAY every one of you from his iniquities.
The Son of God will not know these which come in his name but work iniquity
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: DEPART from me, YE THAT WORK iniquity.
We are told to DEPART from working iniquity
2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART from iniquity.
Jesus Christ does not love iniquity, he hates it
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and HATED iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Charity itself, REJOICETH NOT in iniquity (1 Cr 13:6)
How is this gathering into his kingdom them which do iniquity?
Matt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT of his kingdom all things that offend, and them WHICH DO INIQUITY
There's nothing that speaks of continuing in iniquity
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for AS YE HAVE yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; EVEN SO NOW yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
It says, we should not HENCEFORTH serve sin
Rom.6
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that HENCEFORTH we should not serve sin.
Rom 6
[16] KNOW YE NOT, that TO WHOM ye yield yourselves servants to obey, HIS SERVANTS YE ARE to whom ye obey; whether OF SIN unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Col 3
[5] MORTIFY therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
[7] IN THE WHICH ye also WALKED some time, WHEN ye lived in them.
Paul
Ephes 5:3-6 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, HATH ANY INHERITANCE in the kingdom of Christ and of God. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Paul again,
1Cr 6:9-10 KNOW YE NOT that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, SHALL INHERIT the kingdom of God.
Look at verse 10 (concerning having been washed)
(10) And SUCH WERE some of you: but ye ARE WASHED, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Peter
2Peter 2:20-22 FOR IF AFTER they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, AFTER they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog IS TURNED to his own vomit AGAIN; and the sow that WAS WASHED TO
her wallowing in the mire.
Look at verse 22 (concerning that wich WAS washed)
(22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is TURNED TO his own vomit AGAIN; and the sow that WAS WASHED to her wallowing in the mire.
Paul says, SIN NOT
1 Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, AND SIN NOT; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
What good things come to those who CONTINUE to sin?
John 5:14 Behold, thou art made whole: SIN NO MORE, LEST A WORSE THING come unto thee.
What other answer can I give than the ones provided for us? How can I say it any better then those the Lord chose to say it.
Show me where them which do iniquity enter the Kingdom of God, and how willfully sinning or departing from the living God gives you a ticket into the Kingdom of God?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he taketh away <G142>:
Eternal life is IN CHRIST alone and these branches were IN HIM so they were not dead branches. Does a farmer remove branches that are not dead from a vine, or does he bear with them and maybe lift them up and do something to help them to bear fruit?
IMO the way we interpret the word G142 airo should be dependent on the fact that Jesus was talking about those who are IN HIM, not about those who were NOT ABIDING in Him:
G0142
αἴρω
ai[rw airo {ah'-ee-ro}
a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare 5375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up). see HEBREW for 05375
H05375 nasa' naw-saw' or nacah (Psalm 4 : 6 (7)) {naw-saw'}; a primitive root; to lift, in a great variety of applications, literal and figurative, absol. and rel. (as follows):--accept, advance, arise, (able to, (armor), suffer to) bear(-er, up), bring (forth), burn, carry (away), cast, contain, desire, ease, exact, exalt (self), extol, fetch, forgive, furnish, further, give, go on, help, high, hold up, honorable (+ man), lade, lay, lift (self) up, lofty, marry, magnify, X needs, obtain, pardon, raise (up), receive, regard, respect, set (up), spare, stir up, + swear, take (away, up), X utterly, wear, yield.
The same Greek word is used where we read about Jesus bearing our sin:
And ye know that he was manifested to take away G142 our sins; and in him is no sin.
How did Jesus take away our sins? Was it not by bearing our sins?
And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear G142 his cross.
Same Greek word used here:-
No man taketh G142 it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
I pray not that thou shouldest take G142 them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away G142 thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
It can be used for bearing up or for removing:
Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken G142 even that which he seemeth to have.
Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up G142 thy bed, and walk.
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away G142 from the sepulchre.
There are languages where one word has more than one meaning, and the sentence decides what the word means. This seems to be the same sort of word. But the point is Jesus' words: "Every branch IN ME"
Every branch. How many branches that are not dead but are not bearing fruit will He cast out?
Why is Jesus making a distinction between the branch IN HIM that does not bear fruit and the branch that does not abide IN HIM?
I would need to know a farmer who tends a vineyard or anyone with a vine in his garden to find out if they just tear out the non-dead (living) branches just because they are not bearing any fruit.
You should not be here gainsaying the scriptures
The verses are self explanatory, they needn't any help from me.
I value His words over my own, I can't apologize for that
1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
ChatGpt, if a branch in a vine is not dead but is not bearing fruit, does the farmer cut it off and throw it away?
If you’re speaking literally about viticulture (growing grapevines), the answer is: not necessarily.
1. Agricultural Reality:
In practice:
Dead branch → cut off immediately.
Live but non-fruiting branch → often kept until the right pruning time, unless it’s harming the vine’s productivity.
Purpose of a live, non-fruiting branch: Even if it isn’t fruiting now, it can store energy, produce leaves for photosynthesis, and serve as next year’s fruiting wood.
Timing of removal: Usually not cut off immediately unless it’s blocking sunlight, causing crowding, or competing with more productive shoots. Main removal happens in winter pruning.
Reason for keeping it: Keeps vine healthy, develops future crop potential, and maintains structural balance in the plant.
Farmer’s attitude: Practical: “Not fruiting now? That’s fine — you might be useful later.”
I disagree with Chat GPT's answer about the rest because Jesus said that the branches that are not bearing fruit are IN CHRIST (so they are alive, not dead):
2. Biblical Metaphor (John 15:1–6)
Aspect: What Jesus Says the Father does.
Purpose of a branch: To bear spiritual “fruit” — meaning good works, love, obedience, discipleship — as evidence of abiding in Christ.
Timing of removal: Immediate and decisive in the imagery — the vinedresser “takes away” or “cuts off” every branch that doesn’t bear fruit.
Reason for removal: A branch’s only reason for existing in the metaphor is to bear fruit; if it doesn’t, it’s failing its sole purpose.
Farmer’s attitude: Purpose-driven: “No fruit means you’re disconnected from the vine’s life — there’s no point in keeping you.”
IMO the above ChatGPT reply is not true because the only way a branch in Christ can be disconnected from Jesus is if it's no longer abiding in the vine - and that implies a choice on the part of the person. But the branch IN CHRIST that is not bearing fruit is not dead - eternal life is IN CHRIST alone.
And Jesus was not talking about dead branches that were no longer abiding in the vine - which are the only branches He said wither and die and are cast out and burned.
"Every branch IN ME"
Every branch in Jesus that does not bear fruit. How many branches that are not dead but are nevertheless not bearing fruit will He cast out?
Branches that bear fruit:
(The fruit of the Spirit) is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
(Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9).
If you’re speaking literally about viticulture (growing grapevines), the answer is: not necessarily.
1. Agricultural Reality:
In practice:
Dead branch → cut off immediately.
Live but non-fruiting branch → often kept until the right pruning time, unless it’s harming the vine’s productivity.
Purpose of a live, non-fruiting branch: Even if it isn’t fruiting now, it can store energy, produce leaves for photosynthesis, and serve as next year’s fruiting wood.
Timing of removal: Usually not cut off immediately unless it’s blocking sunlight, causing crowding, or competing with more productive shoots. Main removal happens in winter pruning.
Reason for keeping it: Keeps vine healthy, develops future crop potential, and maintains structural balance in the plant.
Farmer’s attitude: Practical: “Not fruiting now? That’s fine — you might be useful later.”
I disagree with Chat GPT's answer about the rest because Jesus said that the branches that are not bearing fruit are IN CHRIST (so they are alive, not dead):
2. Biblical Metaphor (John 15:1–6)
Aspect: What Jesus Says the Father does.
Purpose of a branch: To bear spiritual “fruit” — meaning good works, love, obedience, discipleship — as evidence of abiding in Christ.
Timing of removal: Immediate and decisive in the imagery — the vinedresser “takes away” or “cuts off” every branch that doesn’t bear fruit.
Reason for removal: A branch’s only reason for existing in the metaphor is to bear fruit; if it doesn’t, it’s failing its sole purpose.
Farmer’s attitude: Purpose-driven: “No fruit means you’re disconnected from the vine’s life — there’s no point in keeping you.”
IMO the above ChatGPT reply is not true because the only way a branch in Christ can be disconnected from Jesus is if it's no longer abiding in the vine - and that implies a choice on the part of the person. But the branch IN CHRIST that is not bearing fruit is not dead - eternal life is IN CHRIST alone.
And Jesus was not talking about dead branches that were no longer abiding in the vine - which are the only branches He said wither and die and are cast out and burned.
"Every branch IN ME"
Every branch in Jesus that does not bear fruit. How many branches that are not dead but are nevertheless not bearing fruit will He cast out?
Branches that bear fruit:
(The fruit of the Spirit) is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
(Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9).
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