Every rapture position is new

[WPM]

But not everyone is going thru the Great Tribulation.

If you believe you are called to go thru the Great Tribulation then according to your faith it will be done unto you.

Show us your biblical support for a rapture of the Church followed by a tribulation period followed by 3rd coming?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But not everyone is going thru the Great Tribulation.

If you believe you are called to go thru the Great Tribulation then according to your faith it will be done unto you.

Why would any believer ever be taken off of the earth in order to avoid great tribulation when many Christians have been going through great tribulation for the past 2,000 years or so already? Do you have any idea of what the early Christians went through? Many of them were killed for their faith. Do you have any idea of what Christians go through in Muslim countries or in communist countries? They are frequently persecuted. I am certain that the idea of a pre-trib rapture is a complete joke to all of those who have gone through great tribulation in their lives. And, it's just not taught in scripture.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Why would any believer ever be taken off of the earth in order to avoid great tribulation when many Christians have been going through great tribulation for the past 2,000 years or so already?

You should learn the difference between "tribulation" which has been on the earth ever since Adam committed high treason against God and "the great tribulation" where satan is allowed to take over the entire world for about 3 years

Big difference between the two.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You should learn the difference between "tribulation" which has been on the earth ever since Adam committed high treason against God and "the great tribulation" where satan is allowed to take over the entire world for about 3 years

Big difference between the two.

There's a big difference between being martyred for your faith during this supposed future 3 year tribulation and being martyred for your faith at any time before that? No, that's not true.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There's a big difference between being martyred for your faith during this supposed future 3 year tribulation and being martyred for your faith at any time before that? No, that's not true.

What is true is during the second half of the 3 year period killing of Christians will be widespread which it is not right now as that's not going on all over the world currently.

If you'd like to be martyred for your faith go to Saudia Arabia and stand on a street corner with a big sign that says mohamid is a false prophet and they'll take care of you pronto.

 

[WitnessX]

You should learn the difference between "tribulation" which has been on the earth ever since Adam committed high treason against God and "the great tribulation" where satan is allowed to take over the entire world for about 3 years

Big difference between the two.

We are not appointed to wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:8-9 (AMP) 8 But since we [believers] belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope and confident assurance of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us to [incur His] wrath [that is, He did not select us to condemn us], but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

His wrath begins, at His coming. The Day of The Lord. The Third Woe.

Acts 2:20-21 (AMP) 20 ‘THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD COMES. 21 ‘AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD [invoking, adoring, and worshiping the Lord Jesus] SHALL BE SAVED (rescued spiritually).’

Revelation 1:7 (AMP)
BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes (nations) of the earth will mourn over Him [realizing their sin and guilt, and anticipating the coming wrath]. So it is to be. Amen.

Revelation 11:14 (AMP) The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

The Seventh Trumpet​

Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded [his trumpet]; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom (dominion, rule) of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

Revelation 11:18 “And the nations (Gentiles) became enraged, and Your wrath and indignation came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and [the time came] to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints (God’s people) and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and [the time came] to destroy the destroyers of the earth.”

So what must we do? Endure, persevere until He comes for us. He will not forsake those that are His. He is not a Liar, nor does His word return void.

Revelation 3:10 (AMP)
‘Because you have kept the word of My endurance [My command to persevere], I will keep you [safe] from the hour of trial, that hour which is about to come on the whole [inhabited] world, to test those who live on the earth. (Just like Noah, Lot, Daniel, Shadrech, the Israelites in Egypt during the three days of darkness.)

peace and blessings be with you.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

We are not appointed to wrath.

Yes, God is not seeking to put wrath upon man as the Lord wants men to be saved and has provided a way for all men to be saved.

The devil however seeks to steal, kill, and destroy according to Jesus (John 10:10)

During the great tribulation period the devil will have a free hand and the Lord will rescue His faithful who believe in the rescue from having to be under the devil's wrath

Those that aren't faithful to the Lord, or that don't believe in His rescue will have to stay here and most likely be murdered for their faith.

Sadly many of these folks who have been taught the false doctrines of eternal security will believe they can take the mark and worship satan and still be saved but will instead end up in hell. Very sad.

Some false teachers have actually said that Christians can take the mark and bow to the devil and still be saved as they teach the false doctrine that "we can never lose our salvation even if we turn away from the Lord"

Those taking the mark of the beats (including Christians) will be doomed to hell for ever.

Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What is true is during the second half of the 3 year period killing of Christians will be widespread which it is not right now as that's not going on all over the world currently.

If you'd like to be martyred for your faith go to Saudia Arabia and stand on a street corner with a big sign that says mohamid is a false prophet and they'll take care of you pronto.

I see that you are just a child and not capable of having an adult discussion, so I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I see that you are just a child and not capable of having an adult discussion, so I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

You'll have to understand in life that not everyone is going to agree with you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You'll have to understand in life that not everyone is going to agree with you.

I fully understand that. I never said everyone would agree with me or that I expect that. But, you talk like a child. You just throw opinions out there without any scriptural support. That's not how to have an adult discussion about scripture.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I fully understand that.

Apparently not so much

You just throw opinions out there without any scriptural support.

I provided scriptures but you didn't agree with them so you got mad because I did not bow down to your view point

You'll have to understand in life that not everyone is going to agree with you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Apparently not so much

Apparently, you think you know me when you don't know me at all.

I provided scriptures but you didn't agree with them so you got mad because I did not bow down to your view point

A vast majority of the time you are just providing your own useless commentary. I never disagree with the scriptures, but I disagree with you quite a bit. And I'm not mad about it. I'm actually sad that you are so ignorant.

You'll have to understand in life that not everyone is going to agree with you.

As I said, I fully understand that. I never said otherwise.

 

[David in NJ]

Not a single person, to include Noah in the flood, Lot in Sodom, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the furnace, or Daniel in the lions den were removed from the earth during tribulation(s). the Bible is full of typologies. Listen to them. They were all saved or protected in their faith and obedience. Just as Hebrews 11 goes on to state about Faith.

But we also know some will face persecution, and will lose their life. Just as the letters to the churches tell us. Just like the Apostles, and Believers did throughout history. We also know some will not die And will be caught up and not see death.

i.e. DON’T take the mark, DON’T Deny Jesus Christ

Enoch nor Elijah were not in tribulation when they were translated, they are a typology of those whom will be translated. Same as Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [Isa. 13:10; 34:4; Joel 2:10, 11; Zeph. 1:15.]
Matthew 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendor]. [Dan. 7:13; Rev. 1:7.]

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after [the affliction and oppression and distress of] that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; [Isa. 13:10.]
Mark 13:25 And the stars will be falling from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. [Isa. 34:4.]
Mark 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great (kingly) power and glory (majesty and splendor). [Dan. 7:13, 14.]

Luke 21:25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea, [Isa. 13:10; Joel 2:10; Zeph. 1:15.]
Luke 21:26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.
Luke 21:27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor). [Dan. 7:13, 14.]

The Order of Resurrection

1 Corinthians 15:23 But each in his own rank and turn: Christ (the Messiah) [is] the firstfruits, then those who are Christ's [own will be resurrected] at His coming.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the [sound of the] last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [in Christ] will be raised imperishable (free and immune from decay), and we shall be changed (transformed).

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!

The Answer: immediately after the tribulation, at His coming, at the last trump.

Everyone is going through tribulation. Just like those at the beginning of this post did in their time. Gird up your loins.

CORRECT - AMEN

Enoch nor Elijah were not in tribulation when they were translated,

Enoch and Elijah ABSOLUTELY were in great tribulation when they were Translated.
They went thru it just as the saints today and those in Revelation during the Great Tribulation

 

[David in NJ]

But not everyone is going thru the Great Tribulation.

If you believe you are called to go thru the Great Tribulation then according to your faith it will be done unto you.

No one escapes tribulation AND if you remain alive during the AoD/Antichrist/Mark of the Beast you will be in Great Tribulation

Revelation 7:14
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

 

[WitnessX]

Enoch and Elijah ABSOLUTELY were in great tribulation when they were Translated.
They went thru it just as the saints today and those in Revelation during the Great Tribulation

I can accept that. Maybe a better typology of those whom remain alive, at the end of those days.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[David in NJ]

I can accept that. Maybe a better typology of those whom remain alive, at the end of those days.

Peace and Blessings.

You just nailed it

praise be to God thru Christ Jesus our LORD

Shalom as well to you my Brother in Christ

 

[David in NJ]

I can accept that. Maybe a better typology of those whom remain alive, at the end of those days.

Peace and Blessings.

Something to ponder on the scriptures concerning Enoch & Elijah

Hebrews 9:27 - "Just as man is appointed to die once"

Why did God spare Enoch and Elijah from tasting death???

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No one escapes tribulation

Yes, the faithful will be rescued around mid-trib after the anti-christ is revealed to the world.

There will be those that are saved during the Great Tribulation (tribulation saints) and they will come unto the Lord att the end of the Great Tribulation. Lots of people get confused over this.

The Lord is not going to sit by and let satan massacre His faith because Jesus does what He sees His Father do and God has a long track record of rescuing His faithful IF they remain faithful to Him.

Key word is is FAITHFUL so the false brethren and tares are not included as they will not be rescued by the Lord and those that believe there will be no rescue sadly will be left behind because according to their faith it will be done unto them.

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Folks would do well to be like the people church in Philadelphia and remain faithful. They kept His Word and did not deny His Name.

These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation

Revelation 7:14 is not speaking of THE great tribulation, it's speaking of those who have gone to Heaven thru having been washed in the Blood of the Lamb.

When reading back from Revelation 7:9 it's obvious the context is speaking of all those who were born again and came to Heaven thru Jesus as members of the Body of Christ (still others came to Heaven prior to when Jesus came in the flesh)

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, the faithful will be rescued around mid-trib after the anti-christ is revealed.

The Lord is not going to sit by and let satan massacre His faith because Jesus does what He sees His Father do and God has a track record of rescuing His faithful. Key word is is FAITHFUL so the false brethren and tares are not included as they will not be rescued by the Lord and those that believe there will be no rescue sadly will be left behind because according to their faith it will be done unto them.

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I agree with most(if not all) of what you say here.

We must take into account all 7 churches in order to SEE what God SEES

There is a reason why JESUS said what HE said to the Philedelphia church = Paul also said it in 1st & 2nd Thessalonians

One thing is certain = the Philadelphia church was not pre-trib raptured and neither were they promised such.

Do a study on the words "keep/kept" in the Gospel and the Apostles letters.

Believe JESUS over all that you were told by main stream 'christianity'

I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

One thing is certain = the Philadelphia church was not pre-trib raptured and neither were they promised such.

No doubt, there is NO pre-trib rapture. This is why pre-tib rapture (and OSAS) teaching is dangerous for so many because they will not recognize the man of sin when he comes on the scene and will think it's safe to follow him and agree with him.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).

*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)