Everyone Goes to Heaven

[Phoneman777]

I like the detail in your post. And it brings some eschatology into the event.
But in the quoted bit above, I want you to consider the definition of the NT Greek word "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11.
Their motivation is not guilt or forced compulsion. They will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

]

Yes, but such a shame it will be too late. What a sad thing for a man to cross the point of no return.

"There is a line, unseen,
which crosses every path;
the hidden boundary between,
God's mercy and His wrath."

 

[Hillsage]

Can't wait to meet Satan in heaven and ask him why he thought he could be God.

Actually you don't have to wait....says the bible...for the last millennia .

2CO 4:4* In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God.

And this verse above was written AFTER the cross. That's why the theology of the NOMINAL deNOMINAtions are so full of division. Division which started with the great apostasy of the 'church of ROME' mingled with 'man's government of ROME' in 400 AD.

It seems, perhaps, Satan finally realizes he's come to the end of his existence, and in one last ditch effort to save themselves rallies the innumerable multitude to run up and surround the City to take it by force, but the fire comes down and puts an end to their rebellion permanently.

No, just the 'end of HIS MINISTRY time' for God.

1CO 5:5* deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I've never heard a sermon preached (in the NOMINAL church) on how 'God uses SATAN to save the spirits of men in the day of the Lord Jesus.....have you?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Again, God communicates one thing to me which is fantastic news. To you it is not. I'm so glad I have no responsibility whatsoever how you respond to God.

I love the story of Noah, the ark and the animals that boarded the ark. It seems that God saw to it that only a certain number of every kind of animal responded to God's instruction to come and enter the ark. Noah had no responsibility as to what animals would join him and his family on the ark.

Judging by the size of the ark, it could not accommodate all the humans Noah interacted with, let alone all the animal that lived on the earth at that time .

Like all the elephants, the dogs, lizards, koalas, tigers etc, besides the male and female of each kind God chose, all other humans were not required, therefore did not and could not respond to their Creator.

Father does not need many from every tribe, tongue, people or nation to be IN Christ, IN His body to make it through into the new kingdom.

I'm grateful Christ Jesus isn't the one you hear speaking.

 

[Hillsage]

Yes, but such a shame it will be too late. What a sad thing for a man to cross the point of no return.

"There is a line, unseen,
which crosses every path;
the hidden boundary between,
God's mercy and His wrath."

Not a bible quote. Ashamed of your source? Still a very true statement,though. Just needs a little LIGHT shined on its shortcoming.

1JO 2:2* He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2434 hilasmos: atonement, i.e. (concr.) an expiator

ROM 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2CO 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

As I read 2Co above, it is only men, and not the bible, who limits God to some "point of no return." Granted they do so with bible translations which aren't the best in our opinions.

 

[Hillsage]

I'm grateful Christ Jesus isn't the one you hear speaking.

Now there is a HEART revealing ATTITUDE. For the 10 years after I first studied this doctrinal POV I always, at least HOPED it was true. Because it at least spoke of a Jesus who was more loving and more forgiving than I was indoctrinated to believe in.

MAT 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's pretty obvious that 'being perfect' is a pretty high goal for most to even HOPE for, let alone BELIEVE in. Not only is it too lofty of a goal for the church to reach, but apparently not even the LORD that most believe in, can even hope for.....except in these verses above.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Now there is a HEART revealing ATTITUDE. For the 10 years after I first studied this doctrinal POV I always, at least HOPED it was true. Because it at least spoke of a Jesus who was more loving and more forgiving than I was indoctrinated to believe in.

MAT 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's pretty obvious that 'being perfect' is a pretty high goal for most to even HOPE for, let alone BELIEVE in. Not only is it too lofty of a goal for the church to reach, but apparently not even the LORD that most believe in, can even hope for.....except in these verses above.

It's an unattainable goal,to be perfect as Jesus was perfect. God knows. Because by God's will we were born imperfect. Because the sins of the father of humanity, Adam, passed unto his offspring,humanity in toto.

However, adding that perfect attribute to scripture insures no believer in it shall ever feel good enough. And as such while they are told they are no longer enslaved to sin,they instead are enslaved to the ideology they must strive to be perfect like Christ was.

I don't think we can ever dismiss the influence those who compiled the New Testament had on its final draft.

In fact that influence and practice is what led Luther to revolt against the institution of Romes Catholic church.

Further, If we read the OT first and if we opine, God does not change! He is the same yesterday,today,and forever, and we accept Jesus was God in flesh who dwelt among us,we realize God said he held regret for having created humans.

If we have ever uttered the Lord's prayer,or concur with its tenets, we must concede we are exactly as God willed us to be.

Many people don't reason out what they hold faith in.
We seek to be saved not from Satan. But from God.
God judges whether we go to Heaven or Hell. And this after he'd already predetermined our fate in that regard before he created the world, or anything at all.
His judgement of us already occurred before we were born. And before the world was created.

No one comes to Jesus unless God calls them.

Because God elected whom he would save,by name,before anything was made.
Even before the fall.

Think about that.

We're born by God's will as sinners first. And we die that way unless God saved us by name before he created the world.

We wonder why some Christians act badly? Maybe because they're not in God's Lamb's Book of Eternal Life (Salvation). And as such the HS does not dwell in them.

Romes influence on scripture is unmistakable.
Because if God does not change, he certainly wouldn't tell us to love our enemies when he slaughtered his.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually you don't have to wait....says the bible...for the last millennia .

"...and never shalt thou (Satan) be anymore". - Ezekiel 28

I've never heard a sermon preached (in the NOMINAL church) on how 'God uses SATAN to save the spirits of men in the day of the Lord Jesus.....have you?

Ever heard a sermon on how "suffering is redemptive"? How that sometimes a man never looks up until he's flat on his back or how that sometimes a man doesn't get on his knees until the burden is to heavy to bear?

I've heard of "delivering" aka "sentencing" of apostate Christians to disfellowship whereby they are put out of the church and back into the world, where Satan may resume his cruel dominion over them, in the hope that through suffering they might turn and seek the Lord once again.

 

[12question]

Yep, the way I read it, New Jerusalem descends to Earth 1,000 years after the Second Coming with all the saints who were resurrected 1,000 years prior as the wicked of all ages are coming up in the Resurrection of the Damned, and after some time they advance toward the City to surround it...when all of a sudden their attention is arrested by the sudden appearance of Jesus high above the City in the "Great White Throne Judgment" which at that moment causes all to be convicted of their guilt of the Unpardonable Sin - any sin from which we refuse to repent - and in that moment of overwhelming guilt, they are compelled to drop down to their knees and confess Jesus was right and that they deserve the fiery destruction about to fall down from God out of heaven.

It seems, perhaps, Satan finally realizes he's come to the end of his existence, and in one last ditch effort to save themselves rallies the innumerable multitude to run up and surround the City to take it by force, but the fire comes down and puts an end to their rebellion permanently.

Thanks for the summary of what one can read in more detail in the book of Revelation.

Yet what happens after this brief period (around 7000 years) of human existence?

 

[Hillsage]

It's an unattainable goal,to be perfect as Jesus was perfect. God knows. Because by God's will we were born imperfect. Because the sins of the father of humanity, Adam, passed unto his offspring,humanity in toto.

That is a bad teaching from the nominal churches theology. I'm only going to name a FEW verses that disagree. I pretty sure you can't name one supporting it's not attainable.

2CO 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect,.. KJV, YLT
2TI 3:16* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, KJV
JAM 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect. KJV RSV YLT
MAT 5:48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. KJV RSV NAS YLT
EPH 4:13* till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ, KJV, YLT

Further, If we read the OT first and if we opine, God does not change! He is the same yesterday,today,and forever, and we accept Jesus was God in flesh who dwelt among us,we realize God said he held regret for having created humans.

I see several 'changes' in how God dealt with his creation in the ages past and the present one we're in. Just the difference between the OT and the NT is huge IMO. I believe that the only, "does not change" attribute of JESUS, pertains ONLY to His ultimate goal for His total creation in this age he came in. And His work isn't complete until the last age of COMPLETE/PERFECTION.

EXO 6:2* And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

He changed his NAMES many times in dealing with the ages of His creation. The last hat was JESUS.

YLT HEB 13:8 Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;

Many people don't reason out what they hold faith in.

And many times don't back up with scripture, that which has so far been refuted IMO.

We seek to be saved not from Satan. But from God.
And his judgement that already occurred before we were born. And before the world was created.

I have found MOST only seek to be saved from ETERNAL HELL. Not a verse to support that. But save YOURSELF????? verse 40 below.

ACT 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift FROM THE Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise (OF HOLY SPIRIT POWER) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

The words "of the" in verse 38 are not saying you get the person of the Holy Spirit as "the gift". You get the POWER/gift FROM the PERSON/giver. The Greek word tou 5120 and is possessive in definition.
You no more get THE HOLY SPIRIT in verse 38, than you get THE FATHER in "the Promise OF THE Father."

No one comes to Jesus unless God calls them. Because God elected whom he would save,by name,before anything was made.
Even before the fall.

No, the FATHER draws them. NOT GOD because that would be FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT.
JOH 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And whoever wasn't "DRAWN (GR. DRAGGED) by the FATHER can't come to Jesus. So he CAN'T get saved by Jesus this side of glory. So he has to be saved "at the last day" of another age than the one he lived in. No one in the OT or before the curse of 'The Law' could 'call upon the ONLY NAME by which one can be saved, because Jesus wasn't even born.

That's why 'the hope' for most, isn't even in the age we are in now. Their hopes are in future ages for receiving the GRACE for SALVATION that was given to us in THIS AGE.

EPH 2:7* that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his (SAVING) grace in kindness toward us (IN THIS AGE) in Christ Jesus.
8* For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --

To God be the glory of YOUR /MY/THEIR SALVATION.

Think about that. We're born by God's will as sinners first. And we die that way unless God saved us by name before he created the world.

We wonder why some Christians act badly? Maybe because they're not in God's Lamb's Book of Eternal Life (Salvation). And as such the HS does not dwell in them.

I would agree totally. The rest CAN"T get saved because they weren't "predestined, foreordained, chosen or called"; all terms dependent upon God and not us.

 

[Hillsage]

"...and never shalt thou (Satan) be anymore". - Ezekiel 28

The word GENESIS means 'origin' or 'beginning'. When God speaks of "the beginning" He is speaking of the originating point of the subject in question. In Genesis 1:1 "in the beginnings" is plural. In 'the beginnings' we know the "OLD SERPENT"which is the devil and Satan" didn't create himself.

REV 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

REV 20:2* And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And how was this "serpent" originally created by God 'to be'????

JOH 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

He was created BY GOD to be an arch angel minister of evil judgments. And was reporting for duty along with all the OTHER arch angels when God assigned JOB to do his ministry of evil. The limits of what Satan could do were determined by GOD, not Satan/Devil.

GEN 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

"God made" 'the serpent/Devil/Satan' "subtle" with a "beastly" nature.....FROM 'HIS" BEGINNING.

And in the ULTIMATE RECONCILIATION of "ALL THINGS", even the serpent will be SAVED from what he was CREATED BY GOD to be. And being "Satan" and the "Devil" are two things that will never be needed again. Maybe that's the understanding you don't have concerning EZEKIEL 28

Ever heard a sermon on how "suffering is redemptive"? How that sometimes a man never looks up until he's flat on his back or how that sometimes a man doesn't get on his knees until the burden is to heavy to bear?

I've heard of "delivering" aka "sentencing" of apostate Christians to disfellowship whereby they are put out of the church and back into the world, where Satan may resume his cruel dominion over them, in the hope that through suffering they might turn and seek the Lord once again.

YES I have "heard" those terms used in sermons"; that's why I quoted you the "turning someone over to the MINISTRY of "SATAN THAT THEIR SPIRIT MIGHT BE SAVED."

In your quote 'Above', you are simply confirming what I said, but have not answered my original question. That question being; "WHEN HAVE YOU EVER HEARD A PASTOR GIVE SATAN CREDIT FOR SAVING PEOPLE?

 

[Ritajanice]

Say what? ???
You seem to be saying that spiritual discernment comes from our view of biblical inspiration?
I don't see the connection. ???

I thought discernment came from the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come
from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them
because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

]

Discernment does come from the Holy Spirit, Brother.

Discernment is a gift from the Spirit.

Discernment comes from the power of the Spirit within....there is no discernment from us...think about it...

1 Corinthians 12-14​

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King James Version​

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12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

 

[Hillsage]

Discernment does come from the Holy Spirit, Brother.

Discernment is a gift from the Spirit.

Discernment comes from the power of the Spirit within....there is no discernment from us...think about it...

1 Corinthians 12-14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Three different GREEK words are interpreted as "discernment" in scripture. Your use in 1Cor 12:10 of a "spiritual gift" definition ("discerning of spirits") is not correct in 1Cor 2:14.

1CO 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning/diakrisis of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1253 diakrisis:judicial estimation

1CO 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned/anakrino.

0350 anakrino: to scrutinize, i.e. (by impl.) investigate, interrogate, determine

The CONTEXT of 1Cor 2:12 is elaborated in verse 11.

1CO 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

As yo can see, scripture is talking about the spiritual discernment ATTRIBUTES which are INHERENT in the "spirit of the man". They are not like the "spiritual gift of discernment" which comes from the Holy Spirit of God. Unfortunatlely, then the false scribes confuse you by capitalizing "spirit" in verse 12.

1CO 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

The context of having a new natured born again spirit in verse 11 should have been followed through consistently in verse 12. But it was NOT. The translators add the definite article in the Greek and capitalized the "s" changing the truth of us talking about a born again "the spirit who is FROM God"......into 'the Spirit" who IS GOD.

 

[Ritajanice]

Two different GREEK words are used as "discernment" in scripture. Your 1Cor 12:10 'spiritual gift' definition ("discerning of spirits") is not correct in 1Cor 2:14.

Discernment ultimately depends on the Holy Spirit. As we are filled with and controlled by the Spirit of God, He makes us discerning. He leads us into all truth by granting us hunger for God's Word and the ability to discern its true meaning — something the “natural man” is incapable of doing (1 Corinthians 2:14).

I go by the Living word of God that lines up with his written word....Gods Spirit is Alive and Active, he is not a book.

He also looks at the heart...he does not look at intellectual knowledge .

KJV
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lordlooketh on the heart.

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◄ Hebrews 4:12 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. New Living Translation For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. English Standard Version For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Berean Standard Bible For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1CO 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning/diakrisis of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

A Born Again has spiritual eyes and ears, as soon as they are Born Of The Spirit.

The Holy Spirit helps us develop those eyes and ears....to hear in our spirit.....to see through the eyes of God.

Matthew 13:9-16​

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

1253 diakrisis:judicial estimation

1CO 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned/anakrino.

0350 anakrino: to scrutinize, i.e. (by impl.) investigate, interrogate, determine


The CONTEXT of 1Cor 2:12 is elaborated in verse 11.

1CO 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

As yo can see, scripture is talking about the spiritual discernment ATTRIBUTES which are INHERENT in the "spirit of the man". They are not like the "spiritual gift of discernment" which comes from the Holy Spirit of God. Unfortunatlely, then the false scribes confuse you by capitalizing "spirit" in verse 12.

1CO 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

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◄ 1 Peter 1:23 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. New Living Translation For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. English Standard Version since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; Berean Standard Bible For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. Berean Literal Bible having been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, by the living and abiding word of God, King James Bible Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. New King James Version having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

The context of having a new natured born again spirit in verse 11 should have been followed through consistently in verse 12. But it was NOT. The translators add the definite article in the Greek and capitalized the "s" changing the truth of us talking about a born again "the spirit who is FROM God"......into 'the Spirit" who IS GOD.

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God.

Very easy to understand...as being Born Of The Spirit is relayed to our heart, that is where the Spirit of God takes up residence....

We aren’t Born Again in our human intellect we are Born Again in our spirit?

Discernment is a gift from God, the power of the Spirit that indwells us...the Holy Spirit.

When you think about it, God is the only one who can offer real spiritual discernment, so it makes perfect sense to ask for His help. The more we ask God for help along the way, the more it becomes apparent that we can make wise decisions through the gift of discernment.

We know we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed, by the testifying of the Spirit,the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

That is a supernatural, spiritual act that only God can do.

 

[Phoneman777]

He was created BY GOD to be an arch angel minister of evil judgments. And was reporting for duty along with all the OTHER arch angels when God assigned JOB to do his ministry of evil. The limits of what Satan could do were determined by GOD, not Satan/Devil.

No wonder you're so confused...you actually think Lucifer started out corrupt!

"How art thou fallen..."
"Thou wast perfect in thy ways...till iniquity was found in thee."
"And God saw everything He had made, and behold, it was very good".

Satan's evil "beginning" took place when he ceased to be upright "Lucifer" via iniquity and became "that serpent of old called called the devil and Satan".

"WHEN HAVE YOU EVER HEARD A PASTOR GIVE SATAN CREDIT FOR SAVING PEOPLE?

Why ask such a question when the Bible teaches he's come only to "kill, steal, and destroy"?

When the church turns someone over to Satan for destruction, the offending member is put out from the safety of the church and exposed again to the destructive power of Satan which either drives them back to the Cross or further away down the road to perdition. It's not so much a judicial exercise as it is an extreme attempt at redemption of those who've turned to stubborn rebellion against the truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

Three different GREEK words are interpreted as "discernment" in scripture.

Did you mean two?
I only see two in your post. ???

]

 

[Hillsage]

Discernment ultimately depends on the Holy Spirit. As we are filled with and controlled by the Spirit of God, He makes us discerning. He leads us into all truth by granting us hunger for God's Word and the ability to discern its true meaning — something the “natural man” is incapable of doing (1 Corinthians 2:14).

I go by the Living word of God that lines up with his written word....Gods Spirit is Alive and Active, he is not a book.

He also looks at the heart...he does not look at intellectual knowledge .

KJV
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lordlooketh on the heart.

​

◄ Hebrews 4:12 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. New Living Translation For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. English Standard Version For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Berean Standard Bible For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

A Born Again has spiritual eyes and ears, as soon as they are Born Of The Spirit.

The Holy Spirit helps us develop those eyes and ears....to hear in our spirit.....to see through the eyes of God.

Matthew 13:9-16​

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

​

◄ 1 Peter 1:23 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. New Living Translation For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. English Standard Version since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; Berean Standard Bible For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. Berean Literal Bible having been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, by the living and abiding word of God, King James Bible Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. New King James Version having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God.

Very easy to understand...as being Born Of The Spirit is relayed to our heart, that is where the Spirit of God takes up residence....

We aren’t Born Again in our human intellect we are Born Again in our spirit?

Discernment is a gift from God, the power of the Spirit that indwells us...the Holy Spirit.

When you think about it, God is the only one who can offer real spiritual discernment, so it makes perfect sense to ask for His help. The more we ask God for help along the way, the more it becomes apparent that we can make wise decisions through the gift of discernment.

We know we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed, by the testifying of the Spirit,the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

That is a supernatural, spiritual act that only God can do.

 

[BlessedPeace]

That is a bad teaching from the nominal churches theology. I'm only going to name a FEW verses that disagree. I pretty sure you can't name one supporting it's not attainable.

2CO 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect,.. KJV, YLT
2TI 3:16* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, KJV
JAM 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect. KJV RSV YLT
MAT 5:48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. KJV RSV NAS YLT
EPH 4:13* till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ, KJV, YLT

Are you perfect?

I see several 'changes' in how God dealt with his creation in the ages past and the present one we're in. Just the difference between the OT and the NT is huge IMO. I believe that the only, "does not change" attribute of JESUS, pertains ONLY to His ultimate goal for His total creation in this age he came in. And His work isn't complete until the last age of COMPLETE/PERFECTION.

EXO 6:2* And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

He changed his NAMES many times in dealing with the ages of His creation. The last hat was JESUS.

YLT HEB 13:8 Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;



And many times don't back up with scripture, that which has so far been refuted IMO.

Because they don't wish to see God as God is.Besides the verse about God being the same.....

Malachi 3:6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

I have found MOST only seek to be saved from ETERNAL HELL. Not a verse to support that. But save YOURSELF????? verse 40 below.

ACT 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift FROM THE Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise (OF HOLY SPIRIT POWER) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

The words "of the" in verse 38 are not saying you get the person of the Holy Spirit as "the gift". You get the POWER/gift FROM the PERSON/giver. The Greek word tou 5120 and is possessive in definition.
You no more get THE HOLY SPIRIT in verse 38, than you get THE FATHER in "the Promise OF THE Father."

No, the FATHER draws them. NOT GOD because that would be FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT.
JOH 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And whoever wasn't "DRAWN (GR. DRAGGED) by the FATHER can't come to Jesus. So he CAN'T get saved by Jesus this side of glory. So he has to be saved "at the last day" of another age than the one he lived in. No one in the OT or before the curse of 'The Law' could 'call upon the ONLY NAME by which one can be saved, because Jesus wasn't even born.

That's why 'the hope' for most, isn't even in the age we are in now. Their hopes are in future ages for receiving the GRACE for SALVATION that was given to us in THIS AGE.

EPH 2:7* that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his (SAVING) grace in kindness toward us (IN THIS AGE) in Christ Jesus.

The Trinity is not to be discussed here per forum rules, so.....

8* For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --

To God be the glory of YOUR /MY/THEIR SALVATION.

You proved my earlier point about God's predetermination .

I would agree totally. The rest CAN"T get saved because they weren't "predestined, foreordained, chosen or called"; all terms dependent upon God and not us.

They were according to the pre-existing Lambs Book of Life. And their designation as the elect of God. Not because they chose him. But because he chose them before the foundation of the world.

 

[Hillsage]

Did you mean two?
I only see two in your post. ???

]

No, I didn't mean two. I actually posted two at first, but then went back and changed it to three, because I KNEW there were THREE. But TWO was all that applied to Rita's error in understanding. And you know how difficult it is to change her mind on anything. That's why tried to make it as simple and yet not entertain more arguing over what she doesn't grasp from me. That's whyI'm skipping a response to her last post. And writing a BOOK back doesn't make it any fun to deal with her either.

You know how many 'variations' of a word like "discernment" (the word Rita used 3 times in post 1051) is used in different translations/interpretations of the bible?

First, you have translations which don't interpret Greek consistently, to deal with. For example;

"discernment". Strong's #144 aisthesis: perception, i.e. (fig.) discernment

KJV 0 times
NKJ 1 time Phil 1:9
RSV 1 time Phil 1:9
NAS 1 time Phil 1:9
YLT 1 time Heb 5:14
NIV 0 times

Then you have to determine what is the 'root' Greek word used in all those verses to determine if "discern" is even the same Greek word when "discern" is in a verse twice.

MAT 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern/diakrino the face of the sky; but can ye not discern/dunamai the signs of the times?

1252 diakrino
to separate thoroughly, i.e. (lit. and reflex.) to withdraw from, or (by impl.) oppose; fig. to discriminate (by impl. decide, or (reflex.) hesitate
1410 dunamai: to be able or possible


Then you have to post Rita and ask her just where 'the Holy Spirit of GOD within us' is, since there's no discernment without HIM according to Her;
Quote;

Discernment does come from the Holy Spirit, Brother.

Discernment is a gift from the Spirit.

Discernment comes from the power of the Spirit within....there is no discernment from us...think about it...

I did "think about it" and I think she is wrong.

 

[BlessedPeace]

No, I didn't mean two. I actually posted two at first, but then went back and changed it to three, because I KNEW there were THREE. But TWO was all that applied to Rita's error in understanding. And you know how difficult it is to change her mind on anything. That's why tried to make it as simple and yet not entertain more arguing over what she doesn't grasp from me. That's whyI'm skipping a response to her last post. And writing a BOOK back doesn't make it any fun to deal with her either.

You know how many 'variations' of a word like "discernment" (the word Rita used 3 times in post 1051) is used in different translations/interpretations of the bible?

First, you have translations which don't interpret Greek consistently, to deal with. For example;

"discernment". Strong's #144 aisthesis: perception, i.e. (fig.) discernment

KJV 0 times
NKJ 1 time Phil 1:9
RSV 1 time Phil 1:9
NAS 1 time Phil 1:9
YLT 1 time Heb 5:14
NIV 0 times

Then you have to determine what is the 'root' Greek word used in all those verses to determine if "discern" is even the same Greek word when "discern" is in a verse twice.

MAT 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern/diakrino the face of the sky; but can ye not discern/dunamai the signs of the times?

1252 diakrino
to separate thoroughly, i.e. (lit. and reflex.) to withdraw from, or (by impl.) oppose; fig. to discriminate (by impl. decide, or (reflex.) hesitate
1410 dunamai: to be able or possible


Then you have to post Rita and ask her just where 'the Holy Spirit of GOD within us' is, since there's no discernment without HIM according to Her;
Quote;

I did "think about it" and I think she is wrong.

I think you do not possess as much scriptural God given wisdom as you imagine of yourself.

Your post above with regard to our sister Rita is evidence of that. You need repent. And open apologize to Rita as you wrongly imagined yourself entitled to berate her publicly .

 

[Jack]

"Everyone Goes to Heaven"

Only if Jesus is a LIAR!