Hillsage
Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to your take on 'the bible' concerning 'your opinion'?
JOH 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
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JOH 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Agreed with all you said, but have a question on this one point. WHO does the book/bible say the 'Lake of fire" was made for?
MAT 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
So, it appears that the "Lake o f fire" was 'prepared' for 'the devil and his angels here, but no one else is mentioned. Then in this next verse we read.
REV 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
So what do you make of the addition of people in this Rev. verse but people were left out of the Matt. verse?
It obviously wasn't an 'after thought' from the ominscient God, but what are your thoughts?
Jesus said BILLIONS of humans will spend eternity with Satan in Hell fire.
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
What if this was 'written' in the bible?
JER 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.
We have a lot of Holdeman Mennonites in our area. They too are very much KJV only...brethren that I love and respect. I was trying to gently talk to one of their older women in my office one day concerning their 'opinion' versus my 'opinion'. And I asked in a moment of silence; 'seeking a WORD from the MOUTH of God'. Do you know what I believe I heard? "Ask her why the NAME on the book wasn't GOD'S VERSION instead of KING JAMES?" I thought that was a pretty good WORD from His mouth personally.
She must have too, because she looked like a cow staring at a new gate. I don't mean that disrespectfully at all either.
I'll add some more thoughts here now, since I do love KJV and several other translations, and some I don't like, and some I kind of hate. Father forgive me for that....or reward me on the day of judgment for my discernment...however that all works out.
THOUGHTS
JER 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely OUR FATHERS HAVE INHERITED LIES, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
-One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called CORRECTOORES were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."
One of the oldest copies of the Bible which dates back to the fifth century is the Codex Bezae, of which the Britannica writes: "Codex Bezae… has a text that is very different from other witnesses. Codex Bezae has many distinctive longer and shorter readings and seems almost to be a separate edition. Its 'Acts, for example, is one-tenth longer than usual’". How can we have a Bible that is said to be "almost… a separate edition"?
347-420 St. Jerome when he wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).
But we're off topic and I really don't have anything else I want to say about this.
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Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Did He really?
Young's LITERAL Translation.disagrees along with a hundred other bibles This was the same Young who wrote YOUNG"S Hebrew/Greek Concordance for the Bible. But Strong's became more popullar because his definition agreed with the TIMES he LIVED IN theologically more than the TIMES it was WRITTEN.
MAT 25:41* Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
As as the word HELL coming out of the MOUTH of Jesus????? Pretty doubtful. Especially since the WORD HELL wasn't even invented until?????? 725 AD
ONE source;
"Hell, Hades, Tartarus, Gehinnom. The word 'Hell' is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word hellia (derived from the Old English, Old Norse, Old High German, hel, helle, circa. 725 AD) that is used in the King James version of the Bible to capture the Jewish concept of 'Gehanna' as the final destination of the wicked. Oct 16, 2019
Yes He did!
Mt 7 Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be who find it.
Once there were a few guys who came up with the idea of building a rail road from the city to the wild west/outback. One was an entrepreneur from the city, another a farmer from out west and another an engineer.
The purpose for building this rail road was twofold.
For the entrepreneur, it was to create an opportunity for people to start a new life and with endless possibilities.
For the farmer, it was to create the opportunity for buisnesses to transport their goods, including livestock.
Was this railroad built and created to transport dirty, stinky animals? According to the farmer, he will say yes, it was prepared for the farmers and their animals.
Was this railroad built and created to transport humans? According to the entrepreneur, he will say yes, it was prepared for humans.
It depends who is speaking and what point they are trying to make.
Of course, the rail road is made and prepared for the farmer and his animals.
But it doesn't mean it's not prepared for humans as well.
Because the fact is the visionaries foresaw, designed and created it in preparation to accommodate both.
Not sure if this makes sense to you.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Philosophically it does "make sense" to me. As to the scriptural based question I asked, not so much.
I was hoping for more of a 'spiritual truth' analogy backed with even more scripture than I just shared, asking the question. IOW, something plumbing the depths of what you shared that 'WE' apparently hold in common. Hope that makes sense to you. 
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
You obviously did nothing to back why MY scriptural quote disagrees with your scriptural quote. And you obviously didn't deal with how Jesus could have SPOKEN the word HELL out of his mouth when that word didn't even exist until 775 AD. There are THREE, 3 Greek words that get translated as HELL in the NT. None of them have the same definition in either Strong's or Young's GREEK DICTIONARY.
KJV MAT 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of HELL fire.
YLT
MAT 5:22 but I - I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the GEHENNA of the fire.
KJV LUK 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to HELL.
YLT LUK 10:15* 'And thou, Capernaum, which unto the heaven wast exalted, unto HADES thou shalt be brought down.
KJV 2PE 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to HELL, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
YLT 2PE 2:4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast {them} down to TARTARUS, did deliver {them} to judgment, having been reserved,
So, your bible has one word for 3 different HELLS in my YLT. WHY?
The KJV has the word HELL in it 54 times. YOUR newer bible translation has it in there either 12, 13 or 14 times....WHY?
Answer all my questions or don't bother answering at all. Because it appears to me, that it just won't be fruitful.
I tend to not limit myself to the one source, namely the bible. In fact I go out of my may to resist my, if I can put it this way, natural default tendency to go to the bible and quote the bible.
I know this may not scratch the itch many believe can only come from using the bible as their back scratcher. For me the bible can be used but I have chosen another means, another type of scratcher that satisfied the itch as it were.
If you are satisfied by only using the bible to answer questions, provide understanding and your means of finding truth then we may end up speaking to each other in differently languages without an interpreter.
Do you realize that you will be accountable for everyone you lead to Hell? All of our Bibles preach the EVERLASTING FIRE!
Luke 16
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
The guy who spoke these words, or should I say, the prophet of the LORD spaketh unto them and sayeth. Isaiah wrote this quote around 700bce so if he was asking people to read something then it had probably had to be already written. Unless there is another way of reading something that hasn't been written yet.
May AI could help with that. But I'm not sure whether AI was available back then.
So this documentation (like AI, books didn't exist back then as the first books were created around 500 BC as hand-written scrolls) must have been written before 700 bce.
The bible as a book of books wasn't compiled as a compilation of recognised and accepted by the evolving church til after the final contributor finished his writing around 100 ce that's 800 years after Isaiah referend to this documentation of the Lord.
The KJV came into existence around 1600 ce that's 2300 years after Isaiah said, seek out...and read.
Maybe its only obvious to me that it wasn't the book, the bible, the King James Version of the bible that Isaiah was referring to.
Lastly, where is Isaiah's reference to this 'book' being only 1 book AND being the King James version bible?
I cannot find it in there. Did you get a secret revelation from Isaiah. Some people claim to have spoken to and have heard from the dead.
The Bible has advanced over time according to God's perfect will. We have all we need to know in our Christian Bible.
And to add to my previous post...
So I think you are saying that Isaiah was expecting God to enable his audience, like him, to be taken 811 years into the future, to spend 3 days (70 hours) to read the whole King James version of the bible, then go back to year 700 bce and agree or disagree with Isaiah, after testing his words with the KJV they had read and committed to memory.
Actually they probably would have to stay in year 1600 ce for the whole year or more to memorise the whole KJV bible before going back to year 700 bce.
You have great faith in and commitment to the KJV bible GRACE ambassador, to believe this.
I'm curious. Who told you this? Or, how did you come to this conclusion? Does your Christian bible say that?
I'll ask on behalf of those who are accustomed to ask, not me.....chapter and verse please
I'm suspecting that Paul, the writer of this quote knew what he was saying and meant by these words.
What are you meaning by these words you typed?
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