Everyone Who Argues Against the Deity of Jesus

[RLT63]

Let me toss the following speculation into the playpen-
Satan wants to do all he can to belittle, trivialise, disrespect, humanise and mock God, so by convincing some people that Jesus was God, he's holding God up to ridicule by suggesting God was a human who worked in a carpenter's shop for 29 years making tables and chairs..
Satan mocks God in other ways too, for example by convincing people that God has the name 'Jehovah or 'Yahweh' like the freak show of heathen 'gods and goddesses'..

So Jesus started making tables and chairs when he was one year old?

 

[David H.]

Let me toss the following speculation into the playpen-
Satan wants to do all he can to belittle, trivialise, disrespect, humanise and mock God, so by convincing some people that Jesus was God, he's holding God up to ridicule by suggesting God was a human who worked in a carpenter's shop for 29 years making tables and chairs..
Satan mocks God in other ways too, for example by convincing people that God has the name 'Jehovah or 'Yahweh' like the freak show of heathen 'gods and goddesses'..

You have just exposed yourself. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

 

[Matthias]

Everywhere he went, he taught and preached the Trinity.

 

[Mr E]

. . . is violating the agreement you made with this site when you joined.

Do you care?

Is that Honorable? Does that show Integrity? Were you being honest?

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

Did you join under false pretenses?

Will you be honest with yourself?

Much love!

I signed up for Twitter a number of years ago. I did so without paying much attention to, or ever reading through their terms of service.

I posted there for a couple of years, but then had some of my posts deleted for silly reasons, and started noticing some of the people I followed were having their posts edited, deleted or restricted also... There were many temporary bans imposed intended to "modify" posting behavior, but from there things only got worse. Much worse.

Twitter began restricting what you could and certainly could not say. Not only 'the way' you post and "what" you post, but also 'the way you think' became a determining factor in their world of content moderation. If you were someone who thinks differently than them (based on the way and what you post) then they could restrict or remove your posts. And they could do so without even telling you or anyone else. They could ban you, they could even shadowban you-- so that though you post uninterruptedly-- no one sees them. I quit Twitter. Folks will quit here if a similar course is pursued. I guarantee it.

--All for the "crime" of having a different point of view that didn't comply with their way of thinking, with their ideology, philosophy and "religion." By that I mean-- "the way they thought and acted out their faith."

This seems to be the heart of your complaint @marks -You want to ban or otherwise restrict the posting of those who think differently than you.

Fortunately, we know how this one ends. Twitter became a wasteland. A nuthouse and echo chamber where the lunatics ruled by making rules and more rules. The lunatics selectively enforced the ridiculous rules they made and punished those that they disagreed with. Free speech and the right to hold your own opinions and beliefs died.

Then.... as fortune smiled on those unfortunate folks who had been so badly mistreated by the Twitter authorities a NEW OWNER came along who vows to restore free speech and the rights of those to speak their minds and have their voices heard-- agree or disagree, all opinions welcome.

Ah but there are those who are so sad. Who long for those glory days where they could report "a violation of the rules" whenever they were offended or had their feelings hurt, and have that differing perspective 'disappeared' at will.

Isn't that what you are asking for here?

 

[David H.]

I signed up for Twitter a number of years ago. I did so without paying much attention to, or ever reading through their terms of service.

Christianity is not a twitter platform. Truth is not subjective. The truth of the deity of Christ has been and will be the deciding test of who is and who is not a Christian. (Emphasis on period) This Truth is confirmed by the Holy Spirit in those who believe, it is easily provable using scripture to those who have ears to hear, it is the very confession of Jesus is LORD that by which the church through the centuries has determined who is saved. The deity of Christ is an essential of the faith.

That being said, the battlefield of ideas is a good thing, but people should be open and honest of what they believe at the get go. A Jehovah's witness believes x, y, z, a mormon, a,b, c. Instead of hiding behind the moniker Christian they should be openly identified by their beliefs and agreement with or disagreement with the SoF of the Forum. There is a debate forum here for such things, let's keep the debate about the deity of Christ there, Let the participants be honest with their leanings and debate the facts, I am all for it. But to hide ones leanings and allegiances is also problematic and is in the territory of deception. There are a lot of deceivers here as well, hiding out as Christians, which by definition are those who proclaim that Jesus is the Lord.

 

[Mr E]

Christianity is not a twitter platform. Truth is not subjective. The truth of the deity of Christ has been and will be the deciding test of who is and who is not a Christian. (Emphasis on period) This Truth is confirmed by the Holy Spirit in those who believe, it is easily provable using scripture to those who have ears to hear, it is the very confession of Jesus is LORD that by which the church through the centuries has determined who is saved. The deity of Christ is an essential of the faith.

That being said, the battlefield of ideas is a good thing, but people should be open and honest of what they believe at the get go. A Jehovah's witness believes x, y, z, a mormon, a,b, c. Instead of hiding behind the moniker Christian they should be openly identified by their beliefs and agreement with or disagreement with the SoF of the Forum. There is a debate forum here for such things, let's keep the debate about the deity of Christ there, Let the participants be honest with their leanings and debate the facts, I am all for it. But to hide ones leanings and allegiances is also problematic and is in the territory of deception. There are a lot of deceivers here as well, hiding out as Christians, which by definition are those who proclaim that Jesus is the Lord.

Sadly, many act as though they wish it were. Silence, censor and delete any who see things differently. Power is in the terms of service and the "moderators" are employed to enforce "the truth" as they see it. You know the lunatics at (the old) Twitter saw themselves as defenders of 'the truth' too. They labeled things they disagreed with as "disinformation" and discouraged discussion of it. They decided what folks could think and say out loud. They stifled conversation of truth by labeling truth to be lies and propping up lies to be that truth they defended. Though they were killing free speech they purported themselves to be defending truth by taking away the right to speak from others who disagreed with their understanding.

It's that simple. Scripture says that the measure to determine who is 'of God' is not who believes in the deity of Christ, but in the humanity of Jesus.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

In other words, the exact opposite of the measure you choose to employ.

 

[David H.]

Sadly, many act as though they wish it were. Silence, censor and delete any who see things differently. Power is in the terms of service and the "moderators" are employed to enforce "the truth" as they see it. You know the lunatics at (the old) Twitter saw themselves as defenders of 'the truth' too. They labeled things they disagreed with as "disinformation" and discouraged discussion of it. They decided what folks could think and say out loud. They stifled conversation of truth by labeling truth to be lies and propping up lies to be that truth they defended. Though they were killing free speech they purported themselves to be defending truth by taking away the right to speak from others who disagreed with their understanding.

It's that simple. Scripture says that the measure to determine who is 'of God' is not who believes in the deity of Christ, but in the humanity of Jesus.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

In other words, the exact opposite of the measure you choose to employ.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Is the other test of the Spirit found in the New testament, they go hand in hand. The Muslims believe in Jesus, But deny His divinity not his humanity.... are they saved? You need to take the full council of scripture. The Gnostics denied Christ's humanity and John was addressing that heresy at the time of writing 1 John, hence his focus on that aspect, But if You read his Gospel, the obvious focus there is the deity of Christ. Again, You need to address the whole council of scripture.... not just the part that says "test of the Spirits".

 

[Mr E]

lol... okay.

Most scholars don't even think it was the same John, but okay. Thanks for the advice.

 

[David H.]

Most scholars don't even think it was the same John, but okay. Thanks for the advice.

Well, You did not answer my question. Muslims believe Jesus was a human, are they saved? This shows how shallow your point is, and that the humanity of Christ is not the Only test of the Spirits in scripture. In Fact most non believers believe that a man named Jesus existed, even the Jews who reject Christ say he was a real human who existed 2000 years ago. It is the claims of divinity that are universally rejected by the unsaved. So the next question for you is can you handle the battlefield of ideas when they expose your own shallow view?

For the record, Scholars are in disagreement on the authorship of the Gospel of John and 1 John, But what does the Holy Spirit tell you is the truth, for scholarship is prone to error, but the Spirit of Truth reveals all truth. I Happen to think John wrote the Gospel, the epistles of John and Revelation. My faith of this is in divine revelation, not scholarship.

 

[Dropship]

You have just exposed yourself. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

In yer dreams mate..
Of course Jesus is the Lord Jesus, but that doesn't make him God, just as saying Elvis is the King doesn't make him a king, right Elv?-

 

[Dropship]

Everywhere he went, he taught and preached the Trinity.

The 'Trinity' thing was just something cooked up by the catholic church to sucker people into thinking Jesus was split up into 3 parts..

 

[Matthias]

It refers to the word as it. It then becomes flesh even in the Geneva Bible

“The Logos is the Agent of God in the creation of the world (II.i). Irenaeus is familiar with the twofold idea of Logos among the Greeks. ‘There is among the Greeks one Logos which is the principle that thinks, and another which is the instrument by which thought is expressed.’ But he says that in God this duality is transcended since in Him there is no pause between thought and speech. ‘God, being all Mind and all Logos, both speaks exactly what He thinks, and thinks exactly what He speaks. For His thought is Logos, and Logos is Mind, and Mind comprehending all things is the Father Himself’ (II.28).”

R.E. Roberts, The Theology of Tertullian (1924), Chapter 3 (pp.44-63)

Bold is mine.

As you know, the Logos isn’t “the Father Himself” in trinitarian theology.

 

[Mr E]

Well, You did not answer my question. Muslims believe Jesus was a human, are they saved? This shows how shallow your point is, and that the humanity of Christ is not the Only test of the Spirits in scripture. In Fact most non believers believe that a man named Jesus existed, even the Jews who reject Christ say he was a real human who existed 2000 years ago. It is the claims of divinity that are universally rejected by the unsaved. So the next question for you is can you handle the battlefield of ideas when they expose your own shallow view?

For the record, Scholars are in disagreement on the authorship of the Gospel of John and 1 John, But what does the Holy Spirit tell you is the truth, for scholarship is prone to error, but the Spirit of Truth reveals all truth. I Happen to think John wrote the Gospel, the epistles of John and Revelation. My faith of this is in divine revelation, not scholarship.

Respectfully, that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about this platform. Not about "Christianity" as a whole, or what Muslims might believe about Jesus, whether he is God or not, nor His ability to save them.

It's about the ability of someone like you subjectively deciding for example, that John wrote both the gospel of John, and the epistles of John and pronouncing that idea to be 'the truth' and deplatforming anyone who disagrees with that premise. Silencing any dissenting opinion, restricting any discussion that offers actual evidence to the contrary and ultimately banning anyone who even mentions that there might be plenty of room for doubt.

That's what this thread is about. The rest of your post is simply noise and off topic.

 

[marks]

I signed up for Twitter a number of years ago. I did so without paying much attention to, or ever reading through their terms of service.

I posted there for a couple of years, but then had some of my posts deleted for silly reasons, and started noticing some of the people I followed were having their posts edited, deleted or restricted also... There were many temporary bans imposed intended to "modify" posting behavior, but from there things only got worse. Much worse.

Twitter began restricting what you could and certainly could not say. Not only 'the way' you post and "what" you post, but also 'the way you think' became a determining factor in their world of content moderation. If you were someone who thinks differently than them (based on the way and what you post) then they could restrict or remove your posts. And they could do so without even telling you or anyone else. They could ban you, they could even shadowban you-- so that though you post uninterruptedly-- no one sees them. I quit Twitter. Folks will quit here if a similar course is pursued. I guarantee it.

--All for the "crime" of having a different point of view that didn't comply with their way of thinking, with their ideology, philosophy and "religion." By that I mean-- "the way they thought and acted out their faith."

This seems to be the heart of your complaint @marks -You want to ban or otherwise restrict the posting of those who think differently than you.

Fortunately, we know how this one ends. Twitter became a wasteland. A nuthouse and echo chamber where the lunatics ruled by making rules and more rules. The lunatics selectively enforced the ridiculous rules they made and punished those that they disagreed with. Free speech and the right to hold your own opinions and beliefs died.

Then.... as fortune smiled on those unfortunate folks who had been so badly mistreated by the Twitter authorities a NEW OWNER came along who vows to restore free speech and the rights of those to speak their minds and have their voices heard-- agree or disagree, all opinions welcome.

Ah but there are those who are so sad. Who long for those glory days where they could report "a violation of the rules" whenever they were offended or had their feelings hurt, and have that differing perspective 'disappeared' at will.

Isn't that what you are asking for here?

God Himself is the most restrictive of all, but not everyone likes that.

This isn't Twitter.

And as far was what I'm asking for, right now I'm asking if certain people can be honest about what they are doing. It didn't think that those who post against the statement of faith would simply acknowledge it. And this thread is proving that out for the most part.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That being said, the battlefield of ideas is a good thing, but people should be open and honest of what they believe at the get go. A Jehovah's witness believes x, y, z, a mormon, a,b, c. Instead of hiding behind the moniker Christian they should be openly identified by their beliefs and agreement with or disagreement with the SoF of the Forum. There is a debate forum here for such things, let's keep the debate about the deity of Christ there, Let the participants be honest with their leanings and debate the facts, I am all for it. But to hide ones leanings and allegiances is also problematic and is in the territory of deception.

Exactly!!

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

That being said, the battlefield of ideas is a good thing, but people should be open and honest of what they believe at the get go. A Jehovah's witness believes x, y, z, a mormon, a,b, c. Instead of hiding behind the moniker Christian they should be openly identified by their beliefs and agreement with or disagreement with the SoF of the Forum. There is a debate forum here for such things, let's keep the debate about the deity of Christ there, Let the participants be honest with their leanings and debate the facts, I am all for it. But to hide ones leanings and allegiances is also problematic and is in the territory of deception. There are a lot of deceivers here as well, hiding out as Christians, which by definition are those who proclaim that Jesus is the Lord.

I quite agree. If people were asked to state their religious persuasion when joining the site it would save a lot of trouble. i have suggested it a couple of times and even to the the new owner but without success.

 

[Mr E]

God Himself is the most restrictive of all, but not everyone likes that.

This isn't Twitter.

And as far was what I'm asking for, right now I'm asking if certain people can be honest about what they are doing. It didn't think that those who post against the statement of faith would simply acknowledge it. And this thread is proving that out for the most part.

Much love!

This thread is about a tiny group of folks complaining about people they disagree with.

Nothing more.

 

[Pearl]

This thread is about a tiny group of folks complaining about people they disagree with.

Nothing more.

And which 'side' are you on? Who do you disagree with?

 

[marks]

This thread is about a tiny group of folks complaining about people they disagree with.

Nothing more.

No need to marginalize this, or deflect from it, in your mischaracterization.

It's actually from just one guy, me, and it's a challenge, to you. If you are anti-Trinitarian, or anti deity of Jesus Christ. I'm guessing you are, based on your response. Is that right?

@Matthias stepped up to the plate, and I respect that. We should be able to admit to things that are true.

What if we were to simply have an honest and open conversation? "Yes, I realize I'm posting contrary to the SoF", for instance.

Is there the habit of openness and honesty? Or is there the habit of deflection and obfuscation? I see a lot more of the latter, myself.

Much love!

 

[Mr E]

No need to marginalize this, or deflect from it, in your mischaracterization.

It's actually from just one guy, me, and it's a challenge, to you. If you are anti-Trinitarian, or anti deity of Jesus Christ. I'm guessing you are, based on your response. Is that right?

@Matthias stepped up to the plate, and I respect that. We should be able to admit to things that are true.

What if we were to simply have an honest and open conversation? "Yes, I realize I'm posting contrary to the SoF", for instance.

Is there the habit of openness and honesty? Or is there the habit of deflection and obfuscation? I see a lot more of the latter, myself.

Much love!

@Matthias makes the point (over and over) so well it doesn't need repeating by me. Even among those who call themselves "Trinitarians" there is little agreement on what constitutes the Trinity. Who would you like to make the arbiter of the truth? Just you yourself?

The same goes for a great many theological discussions. Perspectives vary. It's GOOD to discuss these differing perspectives with a humble approach that encourages examination and understanding. Agreement is not required. Good people on each side of issues disagree and remain good, even if and when some of them are wrong.

I believe in the Trinity-- I just define it differently than you likely do and understand the nature of God to be something we are not able to fully define or even comprehend. In other words, I might think Him bigger than you. Does that make me a heretic because I don't hold to your narrow definitions and understanding of Him? Similarly- I know Jesus to have been a man, born and raised as human and both a son of man and divine just as scripture describes him. But again.... that's not what this thread is about. There are literally hundreds of threads on those topics on this forum. This thread is about your delicate feelings regarding whether or not those kinds of discussions should even be permitted.

Is it fear that drives your concern? What is it really that you are afraid of?