EZ 38-39 TIMELINE

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Dave L

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Future Horses -- Ez 38:15, Micah 5:10, Zech 12:4, Zech 14:15, 20, Rev 9:16-17, Rev 14:20, Rev 18:11-13, Rev 19:18
You are saying this prophecy hasn't been already fulfilled based on your inability to find it in history. This is the epitome of hubris.
 
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Nancy

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Jesus did not say that. Which translation reads "there will be a great tribulation"? Your wording comes from your false dispy doctrine, not from the Bible.



The Bible doesn't say the abomination of desolation is a man also known as the Antichrist. That's more false teaching coming from your dispy doctrine.



Also, there's nothing in the Bible titled, "the Great Tribulation."

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT THE GREAT TRIBULATION
 

Vexatious

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“Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.” (Luke 21:21–23)

The Bible is foreign and offensive to Dispensationalists. Dispies teach that Israel will be attacked, and that God will destroy Israel's enemies. But, the Bible teaches that Israel would be attacked and Israel (specifically Jerusalem) would be destroyed by an angry God.
 

Nancy

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Jesus did not say that. Which translation reads "there will be a great tribulation"? Your wording comes from your false dispy doctrine, not from the Bible.



The Bible doesn't say the abomination of desolation is a man also known as the Antichrist. That's more false teaching coming from your dispy doctrine.



Also, there's nothing in the Bible titled, "the Great Tribulation."

The Bible doesn't say the abomination of desolation is a man also known as the Antichrist. That's more false teaching coming from your dispy doctrine.

Jesus said there would be no greater tribulation than what happened in 70 AD, not even today.

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21) This isn't speaking about the future. When Jesus returns it will be as in the days of Noah. People marrying and giving in marriage. Much like today.

If there is a 7 year tribulation in the future, then you know Jesus will return 7 years later. And only the Father knows the time of his return.

It also does not have the word "Trinity". Who do you think the abomination of desolation is speaking about when in scripture he/she/it is "standing" and when we "see" this...
“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)..." Matthew 24:15
So then, you think all of Gods wrath has been spent? The bowls, plagues and the sun going dark and all the things that have not been completed yet in scripture?
 

Nancy

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I pointed out that you're misrepresenting the Bible, saying the Bible says things it doesn't, but that your false dispy doctrine teaches. A blind link does nothing other than tell me you know you can't find verses that say what you said the Bible says.

You have used the word "dispy" twice now...shall I take it that you are calling my faith and doctrinal beliefs "diPsy" and not "diSpy" Or is there another meaning to the word "dispy"? I will not argue with you. Everybody is so quick to point out where EVERYBODY BUT their selves are in error where doctrine is concerned. YOU are NOT the ultimate teacher, the Holy Spirit IS, brother.
 

Vexatious

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You have used the word "dispy" twice now...shall I take it that you are calling my faith and doctrinal beliefs "diPsy" and not "diSpy" Or is there another meaning to the word "dispy"? I will not argue with you. Everybody is so quick to point out where EVERYBODY BUT their selves are in error where doctrine is concerned. YOU are NOT the ultimate teacher, the Holy Spirit IS, brother.

Dispy is short for Dispensationalist.
 

Nancy

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Dispy is short for Dispensationalist.
Okay, and why do you think I follow that man made way of interpreting scripture? I may subscribe to parts of it but, not all. It is a thread on it's own.
 

Vexatious

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It also does not have the word "Trinity". Who do you think the abomination of desolation is speaking about when in scripture he/she/it is "standing" and when we "see" this...

Dispy doctrine is anti-Bible. When you misquote the Bible or assert the Bible says something the Bible doesn't say, I'm not playing a game about whether a word is or isn't in the Bible. I'm pointing out that what you're saying comes from Dispy doctrine, not the Bible.

The Bible doesn't say what you claim, that the abomination of desolation is a man known as the Antichrist. The abomination of revelation is the Roman army. This I know because the Roman army exactly fits the Bible's description of the abomination of desolation. And, the Jews are the Antichrist. This I know because the Jews precisely fit the Bible's definition of Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say what you say, nor does reason lead to the conclusion you've reached.

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)..." Matthew 24:15

I'm not debating with you, as you have nothing to debate with. I'm trying to educate you. But, as they saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. It's up to you to drink of knowledge, if you're able.

Luke 21:20 is a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15. Luke reads,"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near". We know its armies, rather than say famine, that causes desolation. In historical fact, Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem in 70 AD and caused desolation. We know this had to be in the first century, because Jesus said it would happen before his generation passes away (regardless of dishonest dispy nonsense about "this generation" meaning a future generation). Therefor, it's inescapable that the abomination that causes desolation of which Jesus spoke is the Roman army in 70 AD

Of Antichrist, 1 John 4:3 says "and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already." Dispies actively refuse to practice literacy, else they'd would see that John is reporting the fulfillment of the prophesy of Antichrist, rather than making a prophecy that a future Antichrist will come.

1 John 2:22 reads, "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son." John has said the spirit of Antichrist is every spirit that does not confess Jesus. John also says someone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is a liar and Antichrist, which precisely applies to Jews. Jews define themselves by their denial that Jesus is the Christ. Nothing in the Bible about "Antichrist" causing desolation. Indeed, the Jews and Romans are two different groups, not one and the same person.
 
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Phoneman777

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I believe God actually placed the timing of this war into scripture, via the birds at the great supper of God at the end of the 70th week. (Ez 39:4, Rev 19:17-18)

1. Ez 38 begins at the abomination of desolation
2. Peace and safety in first 3.5 years allows Israel to be with unwalled villages
3. Peace and safety in first 3.5 years gives Israel the decision to rebuild the third temple
4. Ez 38 is this sudden destruction in 1 Thess 5:3 at the abomination of desolation
5. Ez 39 takes place at the end of the 70th week
6. The birds eat the flesh of the dead bodies left after Ez 39 is over
7. Ez 39:2-4 comes prior to Ez 39:9
8. So Israel burns weapons for the first 7 years of the 1000 yr reign

Ez 38:11-12 You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. 12I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land. ”

Ez 39:2-4 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals.

Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Ez 39:9 “ ‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.
The 70th Week immediately followed the 69th Week and was fulfilled almost 2,000 years ago. Slicing off the 70th Week and sending it down to the end of time as "the last seven years of tribulation" is a Jesuit idea not substantiated by Scripture.
 
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Phoneman777

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Looks like you have bought into the nonsense of Preterism. So chances are you will not recognize it as PURE FANTASY. According to your theory, we would already be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth!

The abomination of desolation cannot be separated from the reign of the Antichrist and Satan for 3 1/2 years, and this is yet future. And there must be a third temple in order for those prophecies to be fulfilled.
The 70 Week immediately followed the 69th Week and was fulfilled almost 2,000 years ago. Slicing it off and sending it down to the end of time as "the last seven (or as some surmise "three and a half") years of tribulation" is a Jesuit idea not substantiated by Scripture.
 
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Enoch111

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The 70 Week immediately followed the 69th Week and was fulfilled almost 2,000 years ago.
Really? Then by rights and by prophecy this earth should be PERFECTLY righteous (in all things) and PERFECTLY peaceful (in all nations).

Do you see how absurd your statement is?

And introducing "Jesuit idea" does nothing for your position.
 
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Heb 13:8

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The 70th Week immediately followed the 69th Week and was fulfilled almost 2,000 years ago. Slicing off the 70th Week and sending it down to the end of time as "the last seven years of tribulation" is a Jesuit idea not substantiated by Scripture.

and is Rev 12:1-5 sign coming to pass in the heavens on 9/23/17 also a Jesuit idea? God help you.
 

bbyrd009

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Who do you think the abomination of desolation is speaking about when in scripture he/she/it is "standing" and when we "see" this...
anyone who has assumed the place of God imo, and says they know when they do not, etc
look for statements like "This I know" and "I'm trying to educate you," and then compare for yourself imo
 
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Dave L

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No, the epitome is not recognizing future prophecy scriptures.
You cannot read nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers into passages that call for spears and wooden shields. And turn the theft of cattle into oil and modern day commodities.
 

Nancy

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Dispy doctrine is anti-Bible. When you misquote the Bible or assert the Bible says something the Bible doesn't say, I'm not playing a game about whether a word is or isn't in the Bible. I'm pointing out that what you're saying comes from Dispy doctrine, not the Bible.

The Bible doesn't say what you claim, that the abomination of desolation is a man known as the Antichrist. The abomination of revelation is the Roman army. This I know because the Roman army exactly fits the Bible's description of the abomination of desolation. And, the Jews are the Antichrist. This I know because the Jews precisely fit the Bible's definition of Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say what you say, nor does reason lead to the conclusion you've reached.



I'm not debating with you, as you have nothing to debate with. I'm trying to educate you. But, as they saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. It's up to you to drink of knowledge, if you're able.

Luke 21:20 is a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15. Luke reads,"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near". We know its armies, rather than say famine, that causes desolation. In historical fact, Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem in 70 AD and caused desolation. We know this had to be in the first century, because Jesus said it would happen before his generation passes away (regardless of dishonest dispy nonsense about "this generation" meaning a future generation). Therefor, it's inescapable that the abomination that causes desolation of which Jesus spoke is the Roman army in 70 AD

Of Antichrist, 1 John 4:3 says "and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already." Dispies actively refuse to practice literacy, else they'd would see that John is reporting the fulfillment of the prophesy of Antichrist, rather than making a prophecy that a future Antichrist will come.

1 John 2:22 reads, "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son." John has said the spirit of Antichrist is every spirit that does not confess Jesus. John also says someone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is a liar and Antichrist, which precisely applies to Jews. Jews define themselves by their denial that Jesus is the Christ. Nothing in the Bible about "Antichrist" causing desolation. Indeed, the Jews and Romans are two different groups, not one and the same person.
Neither will I debate this with you as, you are correct, I do not have enough knowledge. I can understand that what you say can easily fit into what you say. It is a huge study and, yes, I have learned what I know about this issue through teachers and my own reading. What I do not see mentioned in this thread are the 7 angels and the 7 bowls of His wrath being poured out after the "mark of the beast" has been fulfilled. Have you any insight on this? Do you believe these things already took place as well?
 

Enoch111

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What I do not see mentioned in this thread are the 7 angels and the 7 bowls of His wrath being poured out after the "mark of the beast" has been fulfilled. Have you any insight on this? Do you believe these things already took place as well?
Since Vexatious is a Preterist, you can simply disregard all his rants against Dispensationalism. The point you have brought it very valid, since Preterists claim that everything in Revelation has been fulfilled. Yet they will not be able to explain what you have just asked about the 7 vials/bowls of God's wrath.

I will need to post a thread on "The Absurdity of Preterism" shortly.
 
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Nancy

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Since Vexatious is a Preterist, you can simply disregard all his rants against Dispensationalism. The point you have brought it very valid, since Preterists claim that everything in Revelation has been fulfilled. Yet they will not be able to explain what you have just asked about the 7 vials/bowls of God's wrath.

I will need to post a thread on "The Absurdity of Preterism" shortly.
I am looking forward to your new thread.
 

Heb 13:8

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You cannot read nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers into passages that call for spears and wooden shields. And turn the theft of cattle into oil and modern day commodities.

Dave L, all these passages are describing future events. In order for you to prove yourself you would have to take apart these passages. Are you willing to do that?

(1.) Notice that Micah 5:3 mentions being in labor who bears a son. Did you know that the sign of the woman in labor in Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17?

(2.) All these passages are referring to the 70th week and His second coming. It's right in front of your face, horses have a purpose in the 70th week. Is it not obvious? :rolleyes:

Ez 38:15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army.

Micah 5:2-4, 10 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." 3Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites. 4He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. 10 "In that day," declares the LORD, "I will destroy your horses from among you and demolish your chariots.

Zech 12:2-4 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

Zech 14:15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

Joel 2:1-7 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. 3Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste— nothing escapes them. 4They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry. 5With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle. 6At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale. 7They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course.

Rev 9:16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

Rev 14:20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
 
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