EZ 38-39 TIMELINE

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Heb 13:8

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You cannot read nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers into passages that call for spears and wooden shields. And turn the theft of cattle into oil and modern day commodities.

This day hasn't come yet. It's the last 3.5 years of the 70th week, the great tribulation..

Joel 2:2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

Matt 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

Notice this army is mentioned in Joel 2, Ez 38 and Rev 9.
 

Phoneman777

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Really? Then by rights and by prophecy this earth should be PERFECTLY righteous (in all things) and PERFECTLY peaceful (in all nations).

Do you see how absurd your statement is?

And introducing "Jesuit idea" does nothing for your position.
Saying the 70th Week is history only seems absurd to you because of your subjective, rigid interpretation of Daniel 9:24 - you think all that's mentioned in the text (...finish the transgression and make and end of sin, to make reconciliation for iniquity and bring in everlasting righteousness, etc.) needs to be accomplished by the expiration of the 70 weeks.

If you asked me why I tossed my nice white oxford into the dryer and set the timer for 70 minutes and I replied, "To serve as an usher at church", does that reply demand I'll be at church dressed and helping people find a seat when the buzzer sounds at the expiration of the 70 minutes? Or would you understand that the setting of the timer is for the purpose of eventually bringing about the accomplishment of me serving as an usher?

Likewise, it's just as acceptable to say "70 weeks are determined to finish the transgression and to make an end of sin, to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness, etc., etc., etc.," with the understanding that the determining of the 70 Weeks is for the purpose of eventually bringing about the accomplishment of all that is mentioned in verse 24, and doesn't necessarily and rigidly demand that all of it is to be accomplished by the expiration of the 70 Weeks. The 70th Week, like the 70th minute, may expire without accomplishing all the reasons for determining the 70 Weeks or setting the timer 70 minutes.

Jesuit Futurism is Jesuit. It was unheard of until Jesuit Francisco Ribera came along.
 
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Heb 13:8

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Jesuit Futurism is Jesuit. It was unheard of until Jesuit Francisco Ribera came along.

That's your response, putting clothes in the dryer for 70 min. Oh Lord

Phone, All these passages are describing future events. In order for you to prove yourself you would have to take apart these passages. Are you willing to do that?

(1.) Notice that Micah 5:3 mentions being in labor who bears a son. Did you know that the sign of the woman in labor in Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17?

(2.) All these passages are referring to the 70th week and His second coming. It's right in front of your face, horses have a purpose in the 70th week. Is it not obvious? :rolleyes:

Ez 38:15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army.

Micah 5:2-4, 10 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." 3Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites. 4He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. 10 "In that day," declares the LORD, "I will destroy your horses from among you and demolish your chariots.

Zech 12:2-4 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

Zech 14:15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

Joel 2:1-7 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. 3Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste— nothing escapes them. 4They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry. 5With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle. 6At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale. 7They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course.

Rev 9:16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

Rev 14:20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
 

Phoneman777

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That's your response, putting clothes in the dryer for 70 min. Oh Lord

Phone, All these passages are describing future events. In order for you to prove yourself you would have to take apart these passages. Are you willing to do that?

(1.) Notice that Micah 5:3 mentions being in labor who bears a son. Did you know that the sign of the woman in labor in Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17?

(2.) All these passages are referring to the 70th week and His second coming. It's right in front of your face, horses have a purpose in the 70th week. Is it not obvious? :rolleyes:

Ez 38:15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army.

Micah 5:2-4, 10 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." 3Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites. 4He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. 10 "In that day," declares the LORD, "I will destroy your horses from among you and demolish your chariots.

Zech 12:2-4 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

Zech 14:15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

Joel 2:1-7 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. 3Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste— nothing escapes them. 4They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry. 5With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle. 6At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale. 7They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course.

Rev 9:16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

Rev 14:20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
I see. You've been shown by my analogy that the 70th Week can expire without the things mentioned in Daniel 9:24 - the reasons for why the 70 Weeks were cut off in the first place - being accomplished, and your only response is essentially to claim we should not, rather than show me why we cannot, interpret the verse the way I say we can?

Posting a bunch of loosely interpreted Old Testament verses to "prove" that the 70th week is still future is extremely weak exegesis.
 

Heb 13:8

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I see. You've been shown by my analogy that the 70th Week can expire without the things mentioned in Daniel 9:24 - the reasons for why the 70 Weeks were cut off in the first place - being accomplished, and your only response is essentially to claim we should not, rather than show me why we cannot, interpret the verse the way I say we can?

Posting a bunch of loosely interpreted Old Testament verses to "prove" that the 70th week is still future is extremely weak exegesis.

Phone, Micah 5:3-4 is future. Can you not see the times we're living in? Is it not obvious...

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...i264j0i131i67j0i20i264j0i22i10i30.JTA2jrFgMJg

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...i71j0i22i30j0i131i20i264j0i131i67.RwB-yc-sPmo

https://www.google.com/search?q=rev...7j35i39j0l4.4706j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1......1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i20i264.Mdnf-SSFD7E
 

Phoneman777

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You do understand that Micah was prophesying about the coming destruction of the 10 Northern tribes, right? The 70 Weeks deal with Jerusalem and the Jews, not the 10 lost tribes of the North.
 

Heb 13:8

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You do understand that Micah was prophesying about the coming destruction of the 10 Northern tribes, right? The 70 Weeks deal with Jerusalem and the Jews, not the 10 lost tribes of the North.

No, Micah 5:2 is about the birth of Christ, Micah 5:3 is about Israel being abandoned for 2000 years and coming back into the land in the end times and Micah 5:4 is about the 1000 yr reign. Keep ignoring Rev 12:1-5 sign on 9/23/17. That will help you a lot.
 
D

Dave L

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This day hasn't come yet. It's the last 3.5 years of the 70th week, the great tribulation..

Joel 2:2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

Matt 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

Notice this army is mentioned in Joel 2, Ez 38 and Rev 9.
Who are rewriting scripture to fit an agenda that came from a nonexistent gap in Daniel scripture nowhere supports. Yikes!
 
D

Dave L

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I guess that's why Matt 24:37-39 exists, for you guys. Yikes!
Incidentally, how does a 7 year tribulation fit into this scene in Matthew? Seems pretty typical, like today if you ask me....
 

Phoneman777

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Phoneman777

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No, Micah 5:2 is about the birth of Christ, Micah 5:3 is about Israel being abandoned for 2000 years and coming back into the land in the end times and Micah 5:4 is about the 1000 yr reign. Keep ignoring Rev 12:1-5 sign on 9/23/17. That will help you a lot.
I agree verse 2 is about the first advent of Christ but the rest is dealing with the ten Northern tribes and what appears to be the captivity of the brethren of the ten Northern tribes: the SOUTHERN brethren which would go into Babylon soon after the ten Northern tribes are lost forever. I think you're really reading a lot more into the prophecy than you should. Besides, this in no way proves the 70th week is still future, which is what I thought we were discussing.
 

Heb 13:8

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Sure, there are many prophecies in the OT that are not yet fulfilled, but the 70th week of Daniel 9 has been fulfilled...by Jesus Christ, not Antichrist.

The seven years in Dan 9 are prophesied in Dan 12 and Rev 11, 12 and 13, the 1260, 1290, 1335 days. Sorry, but you're on the bleachers.
 

Heb 13:8

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I agree verse 2 is about the first advent of Christ but the rest is dealing with the ten Northern tribes and what appears to be the captivity of the brethren of the ten Northern tribes: the SOUTHERN brethren which would go into Babylon soon after the ten Northern tribes are lost forever. I think you're really reading a lot more into the prophecy than you should. Besides, this in no way proves the 70th week is still future, which is what I thought we were discussing.

I believe there's a 2000 year gap in between Michah verse 2-4, because of Rev 12:1-5 sign coming to pass, via the woman in labor. :rolleyes:
 

Phoneman777

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The seven years in Dan 9 are prophesied in Dan 12 and Rev 11 and 13, the 1260, 1290, 1335 days. Sorry, but you're on the bleachers.
Sorry, but it it you who has it wrong. Why can't you understand that the prophecy in Daniel 9 is a "70 Week" prophecy? This is a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy which is plainly stated to be 70 symbolic weeks - 490 symbolic days - which is 490 literal years.

If you insert a 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, can the prophecy remain one single 490 year block of time? Of course not.

QUESTION:
Say you handed a shirt with a $70.00 price tag to the store clerk, she rings it up and says, "That'll be $2070,00" and when you ask how in the world can that be, she says, "Oh, there's a $2,000 gap between the 69th and 70th dollar."
Would you happily buy the shirt or just look at her like she's crazy before walking out?

That's exactly what you Jesuit Futurists do with Daniel 9.


You can't find a single other Numerically Specific Time Prophecy anywhere else in Scripture where a "gap" has been added, so why do Jesuit Futurists think it's totally legit to do so with Daniel 9?
 

Heb 13:8

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Sorry, but it it you who has it wrong. Why can't you understand that the prophecy in Daniel 9 is a "70 Week" prophecy? This is a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy which is plainly stated to be 70 symbolic weeks - 490 symbolic days - which is 490 literal years.

If you insert a 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, can the prophecy remain one single 490 year block of time? Of course not.

QUESTION:
Say you handed a shirt with a $70.00 price tag to the store clerk, she rings it up and says, "That'll be $2070,00" and when you ask how in the world can that be, she says, "Oh, there's a $2,000 gap between the 69th and 70th dollar."
Would you happily buy the shirt or just look at her like she's crazy before walking out?

That's exactly what you Jesuit Futurists do with Daniel 9.


You can't find a single other Numerically Specific Time Prophecy anywhere else in Scripture where a "gap" has been added, so why do Jesuit Futurists think it's totally legit to do so with Daniel 9?

The 1260 days is also mentioned in Rev 12:6, 14, being that Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17, how you can still be a preterist is beyond me. The 70th week is coming whether you believe or not. So many have no idea about 9/23/17. It breaks my heart.
 

Phoneman777

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I believe there's a 2000 year gap in between Michah verse 2-4, because of Rev 12:1-5 sign coming to pass, via the woman in labor. :rolleyes:
If you add a 2,000 year "gap" to Daniel's symbolic 70 Weeks prophecy - which is literally 490 years - the prophecy is no longer "70 Weeks" - it becomes "70 Weeks plus 2,000 years".

Isn't it interesting that Daniel never calls it the "70 Weeks plus 2,000 years" prophecy - it just says "70 Weeks" prophecy...because Jesuit Futurists, not Daniel, illegitimately insert that gap.