Ezekiel 37 I can't wrap my head around this, any help would be a blessing

[Enoch111]

There are no Jews or non-Jews or any such distinctions in the next age.

More unbelief being spouted by someone who has no clue. Why don't you show us from Scripture that what you say above is true, instead of spouting opinions? Give us chapter and verse WITHOUT REFERENCE TO THE CHURCH.

 

[Episkopos]

I was under the impression that ages had to do with dispensations I thought you didn't agree with.

Dispensationalists have a ulterior motive....besides the changing face of creation. They seek to avoid the cross of Christ by making it a "Jewish" thing.

One must not lose sight of the bigger picture.

It's also my understanding that all nations will be taught in the next age, and baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

In that case, where will the Church be? Caught up? Thanks.

Oh my. I can see the programming here...

 

[Episkopos]

More unbelief being spouted by someone who has no clue. Why don't you show us from Scripture that what you say above is true, instead of spouting opinions? Give us chapter and verse WITHOUT REFERENCE TO THE CHURCH.

Unbelief in racism??? Do you think there will be a heavenly France and Germany?

The New Jerusalem is Israel, the Bride of Christ.

Do you feel you are called to be part of the Bride or a guest at the wedding feast of the lamb?

 

[Hidden In Him]

A tall person is not necessarily tall in the future age.
There are no men and women in the future age.
There is no correlation between wealth in this age and the next.
There are no races in the next age.

Wow... This is taking over-spiritualizing to a new level, Episkopos, especially 1, 2, and 4. If our earthly bodies will be resurrected, what on earth will we be doing with different-sized bodies, and of a different race?!

I appreciate how you are a free thinker, and some things you present are solid. But there's also such a thing as being a little TOO free, LoL.

 

[larry2]

Dispensationalists have a ulterior motive

I've sure never heard that one before, and really don't understand what you mean by avoiding the cross.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Messianic mythology. There is nothing "natural" about Israel.

There most certainly is, the Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear, there is a natural man and there is a spiritual man. All Israel is not of the spiritual seed, the majority are of the natural seed, Israel after the flesh, the natural sons of Abraham, and it is these who will compose the nucleus of the earthly phase of the kingdom.

 

[Enoch111]

Dispensationalists have a ulterior motive...

Episkopos,

You would be well advised to shut up at this point. You accuse -- just like the Evil One -- Christian brethren of ulterior motives. That is slander, and evil-speaking without a shred of evidence (since you are truly ignorant about Dispensationalism or Bible prophecy).

And what kind of BS is this: "They seek to avoid the cross of Christ by making it a "Jewish" thing".?

Do you even know what you are talking about? Do you even know the doctrines of Dispensationalists and the Gospel they preach? Do you even know the meaning of the Cross itself? If you did you would not spew garbage against brothers and sisters in Christ, like Vexatious.

I would recommend that before you say another word, you get properly EDUCATED about (1) the Cross, (2) Bible prophecy and (3) Dispensationalism, as presented by those who are well-respected among Christians worldwide.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Any kind of topic about Israel brings the Dispensationalists out to play.

These hold to a solidarity with unbelieving Jews.

These also deny that the Gentiles have been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel....making a continued distinction between Jews and Gentiles in Christ. They deny the existence of the Israel of God...holding to a natural Israel...in the face of God's revelation.

These set aside the words of Jesus saying they are for Jews not for all men. So then the gospel of the kingdom is seen as NOT for us...which is patently false.

These seek to avoid the cross of Christ.

They divide the Body and divide truth so as to avoid the narrow way....teaching instead an easy admittance into "heaven" at some later date.


But these people have been fooled. The Jews, as a religion see Gentiles as far less than themselves. Converted Messianic Jews continue with this low appraisal.

Dispensationalists see themselves as just guests (NOT the Bride) at the wedding feast of the lamb. (and if they don't then they are doubly deceived) This is pleasing to natural Jews. But no Gentile in his right mind should accept this natural denigration...since our calling is direct from God in the Spirit. We do not pass through the Jews for their approval in eternal matters.

So there is a prejudice against Gentiles that has nothing to do with our spiritual calling.

Dispensationalists are stuck in the natural...not understanding the spiritual at all. And this reflects in their doctrines that make all judgments based on natural things.

Make no mistake...WE of the nations are the ALL Israel....who are added to the saints among natural Israel of old.

Now there is only the Israel of God. Old things have passed away....behold! all things are become new.

Any kind of topic about Israel brings the Dispensationalists out to play.

These hold to a solidarity with unbelieving Jews.

These also deny that the Gentiles have been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel....making a continued distinction between Jews and Gentiles in Christ. They deny the existence of the Israel of God...holding to a natural Israel...in the face of God's revelation.

These set aside the words of Jesus saying they are for Jews not for all men. So then the gospel of the kingdom is seen as NOT for us...which is patently false.

These seek to avoid the cross of Christ.

They divide the Body and divide truth so as to avoid the narrow way....teaching instead an easy admittance into "heaven" at some later date.


But these people have been fooled. The Jews, as a religion see Gentiles as far less than themselves. Converted Messianic Jews continue with this low appraisal.

Dispensationalists see themselves as just guests (NOT the Bride) at the wedding feast of the lamb. (and if they don't then they are doubly deceived) This is pleasing to natural Jews. But no Gentile in his right mind should accept this natural denigration...since our calling is direct from God in the Spirit. We do not pass through the Jews for their approval in eternal matters.

So there is a prejudice against Gentiles that has nothing to do with our spiritual calling.

Dispensationalists are stuck in the natural...not understanding the spiritual at all. And this reflects in their doctrines that make all judgments based on natural things.

Make no mistake...WE of the nations are the ALL Israel....who are added to the saints among natural Israel of old.

Now there is only the Israel of God. Old things have passed away....behold! all things are become new.

Who are these Dispensationalists you claim believe this dribble, I never heard anything like it before.

 

[Keraz]

The Restoration the Israel of God

Ezekiel 37:1-10 The prophesy of the valley of dry bones.
Ezekiel 37:11-14....these bones are the whole people of Israel, they say; our bones are dry, our hope is gone.... The Lord says; My people, I shall bring you up from your graves and restore you to the Land of Israel. You will know that I am Y’hovah when I do this. I will put My spirit in you and settle you on your own soil.

The Israelites were punished by God for their sins by dispersion into other lands. That is why they cry ‘our hope is gone, we are cut off’, they have lost their Israelite identity, and become spiritually dead. Note that the bones, which metaphorically represent all 12 tribes of Israel, are displayed in an open field, showing that their exile is not an actual captivity. Ezekiel’s task is to bring the good news to them, to revive their hope and faith, that they are still God’s people, He hasn’t broken His covenant with them, He still loves them and the time has come when He will restore them into the Promised Land.

This gathering of all God’s people, now every faithful Christian, be they actual descendants of Jacob or grafted in, must happen before the Millennial time and the war of Gog and Magog in order for the Temple to be rebuilt and the 144,000 to be selected. The spiritual death of the children of Israel will not last much longer. Through the prophet Elijah [Malachi 4:5], God will awaken them to their divine destiny. The long exile will be over; they will establish their own politically independent State in all of the Holy Land. The new nation of Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 The first stage of this redemption has been done in part of the Land, by the Jewish people, but they too, have not yet received a renewal of God’s Spirit. The ‘dry bones’ prophecy of Ezekiel does not mean physical resurrection of the dead, but is a symbolic vision, similar to other Biblical allegories. It means the end of exile and the beginning of our Christian destiny, of being God's witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Ezekiel 37:15-28... I am taking the leaf of Israel and joining it to the leaf of Judah; they will be as one in My hand. I shall assemble them from every quarter and restore them to their own soil....

The prophecy of the ‘dry bones’ continues on to the “two leaf” prophecy. This is the time when the House of Judah rejoins with the House of Israel, separated since King Rehoboam’s time. It is only when the both Houses reject their apostasy and sins, that they will be ready to become one nation again, a nation of priests and a light to the world. Still, this is not the final redemption, but a preliminary one, to enable their regathering and settlement into the Land of Greater Israel. Final redemption of the whole House of Israel will follow the destruction of the armies of Gog, who is motivated to attack because Beulah will be so wealthy and prosperous.


Ezekiel 38 & 39 The attack on New Israel by the armies of Gog and their destruction.

38:8...you will invade a land restored from ruin....the Israelites, brought out from the nations, living in peace and prosperity. [after the Psalms 83 event and before the Return of Jesus]

Ezekiel 39:21-29....from that Day forward the Israelites will know that I am the Lord their God...... I have dealt out to them what their sins deserved... now I shall restore all of them, leaving none behind and make them exemplify My Holiness for many nations to see. No longer will I hide My face from them, I who have poured out My spirit on Israel. This is the Word of the Lord.
Reference: REB. Some verses abridged. logostelos.info

 

[Episkopos]

Wow... This is taking over-spiritualizing to a new level, Episkopos, especially 1, 2, and 4. If our earthly bodies will be resurrected, what on earth will we be doing with different-sized bodies, and of a different race?!

I appreciate how you are a free thinker, and some things you present are solid. But there's also such a thing as being a little TOO free, LoL.

So you think our physical attributes are eternal?

Is flesh eternal?

 

[Episkopos]

Who are these Dispensationalists you claim believe this dribble, I never heard anything like it before.

Google Dispensationalism...and read the posts again.

It makes the flesh trump the Spirit. So then what is carnal is eternal...and what is actually eternal has no significance. So then we make provision for the flesh (Jewish flesh) and count the flesh as the most important factor in prophetic statements.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos,

You would be well advised to shut up at this point. You accuse -- just like the Evil One -- Christian brethren of ulterior motives. That is slander, and evil-speaking without a shred of evidence (since you are truly ignorant about Dispensationalism or Bible prophecy).

And what kind of BS is this: "They seek to avoid the cross of Christ by making it a "Jewish" thing".?

Do you even know what you are talking about? Do you even know the doctrines of Dispensationalists and the Gospel they preach? Do you even know the meaning of the Cross itself? If you did you would not spew garbage against brothers and sisters in Christ, like Vexatious.

I would recommend that before you say another word, you get properly EDUCATED about (1) the Cross, (2) Bible prophecy and (3) Dispensationalism, as presented by those who are well-respected among Christians worldwide.

The detour around the cross has indeed become popular in our time. I am shedding light on a false doctrine....not accusing as you are actually doing....twisting things around to make it appear I do as you do.

You have accused me many times. But that's ok....since you assume you have that right. But there is no substance to what you say.

You can't challenge my doctrine...since it is actually found in the bible...WITHOUT any interpretations added in.

This frustrates you. But you should listen...and be teachable...for your own good.

So I challenge you to not just do the adhominem thing...but actually look at the word.

ad ho·mi·nem
[ˌad ˈhämənəm]
ADJECTIVE

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
   "vicious ad hominem attacks"

Ad hominem, short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.
My position is sound according to the word AND experience. Many Dispenstionalists who were once indoctrinated into this Darby teaching....have come out of it....and more and more are coming to the realization that they have been deceived.


Listen to any of the debunkers of the Darby heresy...

 

[Episkopos]

There most certainly is, the Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear, there is a natural man and there is a spiritual man. All Israel is not of the spiritual seed, the majority are of the natural seed, Israel after the flesh, the natural sons of Abraham, and it is these who will compose the nucleus of the earthly phase of the kingdom.

Unbelief does not inherit the kingdom of God.

Israel are they who overcome by faith.

Israel is not just a natural nation....but also a church (congregation) of the nations. First the natural....then the spiritual. God lays it out to Jacob in Genesis. (Gen. 35:11)

Literally....."a nation AND a church of nations" (Kehal means congregation or church) is Israel.

גּוֹי וּקְהַל גּוֹיִם, יִהְיֶה מִמֶּךָּ


(I hope some people will look into the bible on this)

 

[Episkopos]

There most certainly is, the Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear, there is a natural man and there is a spiritual man. All Israel is not of the spiritual seed, the majority are of the natural seed, Israel after the flesh, the natural sons of Abraham, and it is these who will compose the nucleus of the earthly phase of the kingdom.

Well, if the words of Jesus are not for the Gentiles....us... then we can party down with an easy gospel that requires no obedience at all.

The enemy doesn't want for anyone to take Jesus at His words. He would rather lead us (of the nations) to think Paul is saying something VERY different in HIS gospel than what Jesus says in HIS. But even a superficial look at the whole picture destroys that as a myth.

Look up where Paul says he preaches the gospel of Christ...and the things concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 28).

Paul says...if any man teach ANOTHER gospel, let him be accursed. Yet Darby did that very thing. And many people in the Western churches have followed him.

It is a twisting of Paul....just like Peter warned us about.

 

[larry2]

The Israelites were punished by God for their sins by dispersion into other lands.

Welcome Brother Keraz, it's a pleasure to have you among us in Jesus' name.

Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Despite detractors against such things, God’s word is sure.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So you think our physical attributes are eternal?

Is flesh eternal?

I think creation will be restored. This idea of casting aside the flesh altogether is almost Gnostic. You speak as if it is an evil thing for God to restore that which He created in the beginning to immortality.

We obviously have opposing views, so I think I'll leave it here. We seem to be on two different planets, and I'm not sure I should be traveling to yours, LoL.

 

[Episkopos]

I think creation will be restored. This idea of casting aside the flesh altogether is almost Gnostic. You speak as if it is an evil thing for God to restore that which He created in the beginning to immortality.

We obviously have opposing views, so I think I'll leave it here. We seem to be on two different planets, and I'm not sure I should be traveling to yours, LoL.

Paul said....the flesh profits nothing. All of his accomplishments and even his Jewish birthright...he counted as dung.

Why?

So that he could win Christ.

Now this may sound very strange to you.

So then what Paul counted as dung...people have grovelled over. Imagine what kind of beggary one would have to be reduced to to grovel after dung. Yet people take great pride in this carnal pursuit. People love to wave the flag.

Is dung eternal? No.

But the stench of dung is surely so.

So then no one knows what God has planned in eternity...but we know that the former things (like right now) will not be remembered.

Conclusion: We cannot hold on to the flesh with it's imaginations, reasonings and attributes. These have become dung to us...IF we are to win Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So then what Paul counted as dung...people have grovelled over. Imagine what kind of beggary one would have to be reduced to to grovel after dung.Yet people take great pride in this carnal pursuit.

Is dung eternal? No.

But the stench of dung is surely so.

You're sounding more Gnostic by the minute...

How do you feel about Gnostic theology?

 

[Episkopos]

You're sounding more Gnostic by the minute...

How do you feel about Gnostic theology?

To you I'm sounding this way...because of your extreme position that honours the flesh.

Was Paul gnostic when he said...make no provision for the flesh?

Gnosticism is embraced by Darbyists who believe in a saving knowledge that has no effect on this present life.

I believe in an actual walk like Jesus. A walk in a holiness that's real....just like Jesus.

My detractors think that is a fantasy...and espouse a "sinful holiness" which is the real gnosticism.

John spoke against the unreality and schizoid nature of they who walked according to the flesh...while denying they would be judged for it.

Gnostics believe they will be judged by their BELIEFS (by what they call grace) and not their ACTIONS.

I have the biblical stance that all men will be judged by what they DO....NOT by what they believe,

So I ask you....how do you feel about gnostic theology? Do you realize just how much you have accepted of this?

Look how many on this forum are closet gnostics.

Dispensationalism is a form of gnosticism. It denies the cross.

 

[Acolyte]

Wow Is this what Yahushua meant by loving our neighbor? Sharing our beliefs and being attacked for them? We will never all agree, that's why I came here - I can't find a physical church. Satan loves us attacking each other. Sadness did I mistakenly put this in the debate forum?