Faith alone for salvation - is heaven full of swearing sailors and dirty jokes?

[Dubious George]

If there's one place in God's beautiful universe that I should be able to walk down the street with my children and not worry that they'll hear someone swearing or worry about their safety, Heaven should be this place.

At least that's my opinion from reading and what I was taught growing up. I always thought of Heaven as a place that I could praise God, possibly enjoy a snow cone by the river of life, and enjoy being with other souls that want to be as Christ-like as we're capable of being, and in that changed state perhaps not ever staining our souls again.

And yet this past weekend my pastor leaves the impression that we're saved by faith in Jesus alone. If that's all it takes, I could drive over a street paved in babies and still make it to Heaven. Or I could write in 300 stories a month to Penthouse and pray dirty jokes to God and still make it in. Am I missing something? In every bit of my being I can say that if that's what Heaven is like, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy anything about it. Of course i don't want to burn forever either, but I'm definitely going to have to move to what passes for the country once we get there.

 

[Stranger]

If there's one place in God's beautiful universe that I should be able to walk down the street with my children and not worry that they'll hear someone swearing or worry about their safety, Heaven should be this place.

At least that's my opinion from reading and what I was taught growing up. I always thought of Heaven as a place that I could praise God, possibly enjoy a snow cone by the river of life, and enjoy being with other souls that want to be as Christ-like as we're capable of being, and in that changed state perhaps not ever staining our souls again.

And yet this past weekend my pastor leaves the impression that we're saved by faith in Jesus alone. If that's all it takes, I could drive over a street paved in babies and still make it to Heaven. Or I could write in 300 stories a month to Penthouse and pray dirty jokes to God and still make it in. Am I missing something? In every bit of my being I can say that if that's what Heaven is like, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy anything about it. Of course i don't want to burn forever either, but I'm definitely going to have to move to what passes for the country once we get there.

Heaven is the place of God. It is not the place of you.

Stranger

 

[Job]

And yet this past weekend my pastor leaves the impression that we're saved by faith in Jesus alone. If that's all it takes, I could drive over a street paved in babies and still make it to Heaven. Or I could write in 300 stories a month to Penthouse and pray dirty jokes to God and still make it in. Am I missing something?

You're missing the entire point of the Gospel.

.

 

[Dcopymope]

If there's one place in God's beautiful universe that I should be able to walk down the street with my children and not worry that they'll hear someone swearing or worry about their safety, Heaven should be this place.

At least that's my opinion from reading and what I was taught growing up. I always thought of Heaven as a place that I could praise God, possibly enjoy a snow cone by the river of life, and enjoy being with other souls that want to be as Christ-like as we're capable of being, and in that changed state perhaps not ever staining our souls again.

And yet this past weekend my pastor leaves the impression that we're saved by faith in Jesus alone. If that's all it takes, I could drive over a street paved in babies and still make it to Heaven. Or I could write in 300 stories a month to Penthouse and pray dirty jokes to God and still make it in. Am I missing something? In every bit of my being I can say that if that's what Heaven is like, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy anything about it. Of course i don't want to burn forever either, but I'm definitely going to have to move to what passes for the country once we get there.

Well, I wonder why you are so concerned about heaven and what heaven is like when God expressly states that he will bring his kingdom to us on earth? I'm pretty sure there will still be plenty of people swearing somewhere out there in the world during his millennial reign in old Jerusalem. I guess those people who taught you growing up neglected to mention his coming reign on THIS earth in its current fallen state.

 

[Dubious George]

I guess those people who taught you growing up neglected to mention his coming reign on THIS earth in its current fallen state.

Maybe so, but regardless of the destination I am dumbfounded that He will be OK with doing whatever you want as long as you believe in Christ for salvation. Jesus was all about teaching us to be better people, no?

Edit: Am I not asking my question clearly or are you guys just making fun? I sincerely want to know what the answer is here.

 

[Richard_oti]

Maybe so, but regardless of the destination I am dumbfounded that He will be OK with doing whatever you want as long as you believe in Christ for salvation. Jesus was all about teaching us to be better people, no?

Edit: Am I not asking my question clearly or are you guys just making fun? I sincerely want to know what the answer is here.

IMO: Faith is an action word; It is "believing" combined with "action" upon that belief.

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you.

To love our neighbor is the second of the great commands. Is it easy? Not in my opinion. However it is the one which is the most demonstrable, it is the easiest to see and grasp from my perspective. However the greatest command, is to love YHVH with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

That one, is not as easily demonstrable. So for myself, I must ask ask, what is it on our part that is to love "God", that demonstrates our love of "God" in our lives.

To love your neighbor, you assist, you feed them, you help them, you are kind, you treat as you would wish to be treated. This extends to everyone that crosses our path in in this life IMO. But to love "God", what is it in our lives that truly demonstrates or exhibits that we truly do.

You are asking the right questions. May YHVH bless you in your search. For I assure you, he who truly seeks shall find.

 

[Dcopymope]

Maybe so, but regardless of the destination I am dumbfounded that He will be OK with doing whatever you want as long as you believe in Christ for salvation. Jesus was all about teaching us to be better people, no?

Edit: Am I not asking my question clearly or are you guys just making fun? I sincerely want to know what the answer is here.

To answer your question, no, he never would be ok with us doing whatever we wanted. There are some that may claim he would, since they believe that his death and resurrection abolished the law, or made it of no effect. What you were taught was what I call hyper graceism, that you can still be a homosexual kissing up on another man or woman, you can still be a sorcerer, even blaspheme the holy spirit, just do whatever you want and still be "saved". NO, and as far as I'm concerned this kind of belief also goes by the term "unconditional love", and I can't stand it. However, Jesus was not all about teaching us to be "better people". We already have that aplenty in many false religions. Jesus came to save us from ourselves, to atone for our sins as payment for the ransom for our souls, to be saved from the lake of fire judgement.

 

[Job]

Am I not asking my question clearly or are you guys just making fun? I sincerely want to know what the answer is here.

If you want to know what Jesus is all about, study chapters 5, 6 and 7 in the book of Matthew. You'll find the answer to your question there.

If you still have questions, and you will, don't be afraid to ask.

.

 

[Richard_oti]

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I am remiss. Welcome to CB Dubious George! May your journey here be kind unto you.

 

[Helen]

Maybe so, but regardless of the destination I am dumbfounded that He will be OK with doing whatever you want as long as you believe in Christ for salvation. Jesus was all about teaching us to be better people, no?

NO! :)

Jesus was and IS all about showing us Matt 5 that we cannot "be better people".
That is a trap of our Enemy and a lie...it brings hopelessness and discouragement to any Christian.
Jesus was all about showing us how to be 'dead people'...and He Himself living His life through us. That is our 'real life' ...our own life is a shadow of the real.
The Good News = Gospel...is not about us...it is all about Him.
Who He is in us, and who we are in Him.

The Good News is all about God bringing mankind back into unity with Himself... as Adam had when God walked with him in the cool of the evening..
From the words of God back in Genesis.."Let us make man in our image and likeness..." God has been doing just that through the ages.
"We" Believers are the body of Christ through the victory of the Cross...there is coming a time when the Head ( Christ) and the Body (us) will be united as One. And conclude the period of "Let us make man in Our image and likeness."
He is not making us better and better...He is changing us into His image.

Just my two cents...

 

[Job]

He is not making us better and better...He is changing us into His image.

Isn't that making us better?

.

 

[bbyrd009]

If there's one place in God's beautiful universe that I should be able to walk down the street with my children and not worry that they'll hear someone swearing or worry about their safety, Heaven should be this place.

At least that's my opinion from reading and what I was taught growing up. I always thought of Heaven as a place that I could praise God, possibly enjoy a snow cone by the river of life, and enjoy being with other souls that want to be as Christ-like as we're capable of being, and in that changed state perhaps not ever staining our souls again.

And yet this past weekend my pastor leaves the impression that we're saved by faith in Jesus alone. If that's all it takes, I could drive over a street paved in babies and still make it to Heaven. Or I could write in 300 stories a month to Penthouse and pray dirty jokes to God and still make it in. Am I missing something? In every bit of my being I can say that if that's what Heaven is like, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy anything about it. Of course i don't want to burn forever either, but I'm definitely going to have to move to what passes for the country once we get there.

HA! good one

welcome to the forum :)

 

[Dubious George]

NO! :)

Jesus was and IS all about showing us Matt 5 that we cannot "be better people".
That is a trap of our Enemy and a lie...it brings hopelessness and discouragement to any Christian.
Jesus was all about showing us how to be 'dead people'...and He Himself living His life through us. That is our 'real life' ...our own life is a shadow of the real.
The Good News = Gospel...is not about us...it is all about Him.
Who He is in us, and who we are in Him.

The Good News is all about God bringing mankind back into unity with Himself... as Adam had when God walked with him in the cool of the evening..
From the words of God back in Genesis.."Let us make man in our image and likeness..." God has been doing just that through the ages.
"We" Believers are the body of Christ through the victory of the Cross...there is coming a time when the Head ( Christ) and the Body (us) will be united as One. And conclude the period of "Let us make man in Our image and likeness."
He is not making us better and better...He is changing us into His image.

Just my two cents...

Ok, so then what's the point of trying to be a better person? I mean, the Japanese used to throw babies up and see how many they could slice in half in 60 seconds. If they believe in Christ, are they then A-OK and marked for salvation even though they have dead baby races? That honestly doesn't make sense at all to me.

Also, why write a whole dang book about God when he could have just said, "Believe in me and be saved". Why all the rules and guidelines to follow? Are the 10 commandments just a suggestion?

I'm starting to feel like Abraham trying to save Sodom. "If I can only find 50 people, Lord!" Surely I'm not the only person left on the planet that believes salvation was made be for the good, not just the "drive-by" believers.

 

[bbyrd009]

Also, why write a whole dang book about God when he could have just said, "Believe in me and be saved". Why all the rules and guidelines to follow? Are the 10 commandments just a suggestion?

ya, takes a while to get all that down, how are we not under the OT dispensation any more, yet the OT is still relevant, etc, and we are naturally led to go seek out a "pastor" to guide us, expecting him to have definitive answers, and to basically read our Bible for us.

So see how a guy that has been put into a conflict of interests, has signed a Contract, for Jesus, all with the best of intentions, is the guy that you go to to explain the Bible. You have a need; a need to know, right? And so you go to someone "ordained" to give you the answers that you seek, like most everyone does. You are a buyer, and he is a seller, then.

And i'm not saying that this is a bad person ok, or that God did not lead you to him, even, to learn something. But there comes a time to find another pastor, and another after that--unless you are satisfied where you are, of course, in which case just ignore me--with the understanding that God does not require pastors to be "ordained" ok, my current pastor has no credentials, and has no idea that he is my "pastor" even; except on a certain level.

The only time i engage with the religious now is here, and another forum. God is not religious, and you might even note that the OT is a record of the failure of a religion. i drink a cup of coffee every morning, religiously :)

501 (6)
c3 (6)
1023(6)

 

[H. Richard]

A person can not be a child of God until that person sees the sin in his/her life. After seeing it they know that what they need is a salvation that saves them from themselves. It is foolish for most to think that after a child of God sees their sins would enjoy doing them. But the religious will never see what I have written. They will go on and on about how the child f God enjoys the freedom to sin. These are so blind to the truth.

But they have an out. They will say they repent and then their sins becomes okay.

 

[bbyrd009]

HR, you are just painting with such a broad brush there that it is hard to get where you are coming from, kinda. Never? you sure? And i thought you were "grace alone, no works necessary?" What am i missing there?

If there's one place in God's beautiful universe that I should be able to walk down the street with my children and not worry that they'll hear someone swearing or worry about their safety, Heaven should be this place.

At least that's my opinion from reading and what I was taught growing up. I always thought of Heaven as a place that I could praise God, possibly enjoy a snow cone by the river of life, and enjoy being with other souls that want to be as Christ-like as we're capable of being, and in that changed state perhaps not ever staining our souls again.

And yet this past weekend my pastor leaves the impression that we're saved by faith in Jesus alone. If that's all it takes, I could drive over a street paved in babies and still make it to Heaven. Or I could write in 300 stories a month to Penthouse and pray dirty jokes to God and still make it in. Am I missing something? In every bit of my being I can say that if that's what Heaven is like, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy anything about it. Of course i don't want to burn forever either, but I'm definitely going to have to move to what passes for the country once we get there.

so, really what we are talking about is a long journey back to, essentially, being like a little kid. Unfortunately "I came that you might have life, and more abundantly" gets turned into "i can't wait to die, and go to heaven." So, Good News, meant to bring life, gets turned into a death cult, waiting to die and go to heaven.

Remember what you thought life was going to be like when you were a little kid? That is all the kingdom really is imo. And when does that happen? When you remember that, and start manifesting it. Sure, if you get good enough at it, someone will wanna kill you, but so what; you are going to die anyway. If you are an American, prolly of some retched wasting disease. If you are not careful.

if one's pastor believes that Paul craved death in order to "be present with the Lord," then imo one should pause and reflect.

Anyway, to reply to the op,
7Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Maybe so, but regardless of the destination I am dumbfounded that He will be OK with doing whatever you want as long as you believe in Christ for salvation. Jesus was all about teaching us to be better people, no?

Edit: Am I not asking my question clearly or are you guys just making fun? I sincerely want to know what the answer is here.

You ARE asking the right question because the man made doctrine of Sola Fide is false.
This was NEVER a Christian teaching in the 1500 years prior to the Protestant Revolt.

The problem with Sola Fide - as you can see here by the many different responses is that some define it as "just believing" - while others claim that it is belief plus action. There is no consensus within Protestantism.

The Catholic position has always been the correct and Biblical definition: Faith = belief and works (James 2:14-26).
"Works" are about the obedience of faith. True faith cannot exist without obedience and works are useless without faith.

 

[Dubious George]

The Catholic position has always been the correct and Biblical definition: Faith = belief and works (James 2:14-26).
"Works" are about the obedience of faith. True faith cannot exist without obedience and works are useless without faith.

I'm sorry, but I can't get with the Catholic position - ever. The whole pope thing just rubs me wrong in every sense of the word. But that last line is what I've always thought of with regards to Christ. Ugh. I'm so confused.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm sorry, but I can't get with the Catholic position - ever. The whole pope thing just rubs me wrong in every sense of the word. But that last line is what I've always thought of with regards to Christ. Ugh. I'm so confused.

Then you have to ask yourself - if this, one of the main pillars of Protestantism is wrong - why on earth would you follow Protestantism??

 

[Job]

I'm sorry, but I can't get with the Catholic position - ever.

Don't be sorry George. Your decision to avoid the way of the catholic denomination shows wisdom.

I'm so confused.

Have you read from the book of Matthew as I suggested? It won't magically remove your confusion but it's a start.
.