Faith or sin
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Let me try and clear up how and why I used the word ‘experience(s)’ for you, in my previous post. I see you have a little concern with it.
Even good intentions in the sharing of one’s personal triumphs, that one considers a representation of spiritual maturity and experience, even presented in a caring and loving manner, and given many times can appear to a carnal or immature believer as intimidation, unneeded pressure, arrogance and pride. It is a sensitive area that Paul thought important to place in writing.
All good then I hope,
Bless you,
APAK
Hi A,
I maybe shouldn't comment since I don't know what the other member posted...
Just want to say that you're right -- there's a fine line between testifying for encouragement and prideful statements.
I like to give the benefit of the doubt and believe most persons are trying to lift us up.
I just feel like sometimes people see epi as arrogant for sharing his experience with us, as if he is looking down on us as holier than thou.
So sometimes I read too much into a post and imagine he is being attacked when he probably isnt and I've just misunderstood.
I've seen some of epi's heart and that isn't it. He has more of the heart of a father, like he says to children on Christmas afternoon, hey, look guys, calm down and listen, look over there - there's more you didn't see to unwrap!
And I think he is fiercely protective of us if anyone tries to convince that no, there are no more gifts, there's nothing more, and he's just lying to us to make himself look holy. That isn't his heart.
And he has the best discernment I have ever seen. That sometimes comes across as arrogant when he asks questions of someone. But his heart is for all of us And he is not a puffed up man. I know though that it is possible for light to look like darkness to us.
Are you not simply playing with words? They were most definitely saved from their bondage in Egypt. People often speak of salvation as if it were only the final saving at the end of their time here. It is that, but we are also saved along the way as God blocks some of the evil things that come against us... but as with Job, He does NOT block everything always. The time to be ready to be with God is now... even if many tomorrows may remain to us. But, we do not know that... that is that we have many tomorrows left. People are often on that slippery slope we hear some speak about and sometimes they lose their focus on Jesus and slide backward. This need not be the final loss, but it could be. What did the unnamed prophet of I Kings 13 have from God until he failed to use it as he should? What did he lose?
We, all of us who have met the Master and abided with Him for even a moment, have been saved. But, if we never learn to stop looking back at the things of this world more often than we look at or for His face, we may lose what we thought that we had. Consider what Peter did when he began to sink into the water. He called to the Lord for help but some in his situation do not and they sink on down into that water.
No I am not playing with words. Deliverance from Egyptian bondage was NOT the same as salvation by grace through faith. And as recorded in Scripture, only two men -- Joshua and Caleb -- were saved by grace. I have already provided the relevant Scriptures, but a study of the Torah will confirm this.
Yes, run to win, but unlike the natural races of competitors in track it is not only the very first that finishes that is declared the winner:
"...but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22
What? Oh my...a total confusion of standards. God offered the very same salvation to all of Israel. Only Jacob and Caleb had that unlimited/unconditional faith in God in every situation. They were faithful...they did not have more grace.
Man. Talk about missing the lesson.
What God is looking for is what I call jumpers. Leapers in faith. People who will throw themselves onto Him. People who see God and not the situation. Think David facing Goliath.
But the rarity of that is evident. There are not many...if any...Stephen's and Paul's among us.
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Well as long as we are seeing the maturity in others as something good...and not in the immaturity of pride...then not so much.
Paul said...
1 Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
My point is simply that salvation along the way does occur but it is not a final salvation until the person has completed his race. This does not mean that God does not bless people along the way and save them from many stumbling blocks even though they do not make it to the end with Him. It is the final step that makes the difference in the salvation of which you speak. A person who quits before taking that final step receives no final reward in spite of the blessings which included 'savings' received along the way. Who among us has not been blessed?
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Right on John! God is always being faithful but is His faithfulness rubbing off on us? Are we learning to be righteous?
Are we happy with the will of God and His ways?
May the peace of Christ disturb us...even scandalize us..into some kind of conformity to Him.
Epi, what are your thoughts on Moses concerning this? That he was given more so more was expected of him?
That's really is not to my point though. Seeing and observing maturity in others over time of course is always good. And yet this can be deceptive and unreliable. And some even mimic this behavior as maturity, as you pointed out with Paul, as an example. And of course no one should mimic was it sensed as prideful behavior. Although folks are apt to quick judgment of any 'hurt' they feel as caused by a prideful soul -and thus labeled as a sure sign of immaturity, to ignore in the future.
And because of both of these judgments if not make in Spirit and made by the carnal mind for of maturity as in Paul, and pride as immaturity in say, posters on a chat site, we cannot use these as the yardstick we measure ourselves by. It is unreliable. It cannot be as each believer grows in Christ differently and we are all affected by our emotions and weakness in the spirit. We work out our own salvation indeed and how our walk is measured by our spirit with the Spirit of God. We must discard the carnal mind and judge in Spirit of ourselves and others, that is the true yardstick, if this can be possible.
Bless you,
APAK
Short answer: Emotions from the carnal spirit rules the heart from time to time rather that the Spirit. It make for poor judgments...not reliable.
A little longer answer: Biblical discernment is done in Spirit to discern the spirits of people and to judge the heart. One has to be know these people well though, over time and especially being in their physical proximity. There are many spirits of people that operate with other influences of by other spirits of people, and even demons that attempt to control their behavior. Spiritual warfare is abounding!
Bless you,
APAK
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I think that's it. His punishment was a temporal one...of not being allowed to see the promised land. But yet there was no eternal lasting effect. Like David.
All sin has consequences...but some is eternal and some is temporal.
But to whom much is given...more is required.
I could almost swear that this is not APAK...it doesn't even seem to be the way you normally speak...
Lol, yeah. It just seemed so different, like even the tenses you used. Just didn't seem like you!
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