Faith or sin

[Nancy]

Without faith it is impossible to please God. And if we don't have faith it means we aren't trusting him to keep his promises.

Agreed Pat,
Seems we call God a liar when we do not believe what HE say's.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Brain literally won't stop on this.

So if I talk in here with someone and I say something and they come back and say, but that can't be right because THIS verse says such and such, it makes me pause and say, wow, you're right. Something in how I've been looking at this is jammed up a little bit.

So I go searching to understand. I don't automatically say, oh my gosh, I've been believing a complete and total lie!! That's not how it works. Its more like...some part of what I've thought has been an incomplete understanding.

But some people don't seem to try to fit the two verses together. Instead, they attempt to explain away one of the verses.

I don't get it. I mean, I do get that its a threat to their construct. In their mind, to admit the one verse would make their construct fall down, so they have to defend the crooked fort at all costs.

But most often, their entire construct wouldn't fall, but a renovation would need to be done here or there.

 

[Episkopos]

Brain literally won't stop on this.

So if I talk in here with someone and I say something and they come back and say, but that can't be right because THIS verse says such and such, it makes me pause and say, wow, you're right. Something in how I've been looking at this is jammed up a little bit.

So I go searching to understand. I don't automatically say, oh my gosh, I've been believing a complete and total lie!! That's not how it works. Its more like...some part of what I've thought has been an incomplete understanding.

But some people don't seem to try to fit the two verses together. Instead, they attempt to explain away one of the verses.

I don't get it. I mean, I do get that its a threat to their construct. In their mind, to admit the one verse would make their construct fall down, so they have to defend the crooked fort at all costs.

But most often, their entire construct wouldn't fall, but a renovation would need to be done here or there.

Amen! The truth has more than one polarity. It is like a magnetic field. It has a positive and negative pole. In fact, even grace has a negative pole. Grace can deceive us unless we take into account that negative pole.

The earth itself has a polarity and a magnetic field....or else we would be destroyed by the power of the sun. And this is a perfect spiritual example of the need for that same double polarity to protect us from the judgment of the SON. Jesus has a double edged sword...a sword with 2 polarities.

But the treasures of the kingdom are hidden in that magnetic field. (the parable of the treasure hidden in a field Mat. 13:44)

I have also said that truth is like a wheel within a wheel. There is more than one layer to the meaning of the truth. There is what seems to be...and there is the hidden part.

So yes, SBG you have a wise approach to gathering up the truth into one basket, as it were...instead of rejecting anything that you don't already have.

 

[bbyrd009]

Agreed Pat,
Seems we call God a liar when we do not believe what HE say's.

Having faith and believing are two diff things, aren't they?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Amen! The truth has more than one polarity. It is like a magnetic field. It has a positive and negative pole. In fact, even grace has a negative pole. Grace can deceive us unless we take into account that negative pole.

The earth itself has a polarity and a magnetic field....or else we would be destroyed by the power of the sun. And this is a perfect spiritual example of the need for that same double polarity to protect us from the judgment of the SON. Jesus has a double edged sword...a sword with 2 polarities.

I have also said that truth is like a wheel within a wheel. There is more than one layer to the meaning of the truth. There is what seems to be...and there is the hidden part.

So yes, SBG you have a wise approach to gathering up the truth into one basket, as it were...instead of rejecting anything that you don't already have.

I had a gasp there! I sort of saw the spirit of when Jesus told the disciples to gather up all the leftover bread so none of it was wasted...

Finally saw what the meaning of a double edged sword is too, with your help.

You know, a friend of mine saw a picture of my deck and she said, you are the only other person I know who can pack so much into such a small space! But God is the master at packing more than you could ever imagine into just a few words!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Having faith and believing are two diff things, aren't they?

Here you go again!

 

[bbyrd009]

Brain literally won't stop on this.

So if I talk in here with someone and I say something and they come back and say, but that can't be right because THIS verse says such and such, it makes me pause and say, wow, you're right. Something in how I've been looking at this is jammed up a little bit.

So I go searching to understand. I don't automatically say, oh my gosh, I've been believing a complete and total lie!! That's not how it works. Its more like...some part of what I've thought has been an incomplete understanding.

But some people don't seem to try to fit the two verses together. Instead, they attempt to explain away one of the verses.

I don't get it. I mean, I do get that its a threat to their construct. In their mind, to admit the one verse would make their construct fall down, so they have to defend the crooked fort at all costs.

But most often, their entire construct wouldn't fall, but a renovation would need to be done here or there.

Nice imo, ty. Fwiw i would tear it down to the foundation and start over, as Nehushtan suggests, but whatever gets you to
No Son of Man may die for another's sins
No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal
you and your sons will be here with me
i guess

What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of

 

[bbyrd009]

Without faith it is impossible to please God. And if we don't have faith it means we aren't trusting him to keep his promises.

As long as you have money in your pocket you don't need God at all right

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Having faith and believing are two diff things, aren't they?

Okay, I can't believe I'm going to jump on this crowded freeway again but...explain your thoughts on this one more time? Maybe I will see it this time.

 

[Nancy]

Having faith and believing are two diff things, aren't they?

Not really to me Mark. It doesn't matter if I have faith BECAUSE I believe or the other way around. I know that satan "believes" and trembles...and he does not need faith as he knows his end.

 

[Nancy]

Okay, I can't believe I'm going to jump on this crowded freeway again but...explain your thoughts on this one more time? Maybe I will see it this time.

You are too funny. Yeah, I never thought of deciphering Mark's posts as jumping onto a crowded freeway but, yeah...it's kinda like that! Love you Mark! you keep us on our toes, that's for sure!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not really to me Mark. It doesn't matter if I have faith BECAUSE I believe or the other way around. I know that satan "believes" and trembles...and he does not need faith as he knows his end.

Well you know what...? You giving that verse might just have popped the lightbulb on for me...the wattage is dim, but I might have a little bit of understanding on why Byrd says to believe and to have faith do have a difference...ill hop off the freeway and give that some thought...

 

[bbyrd009]

Okay, I can't believe I'm going to jump on this crowded freeway again but...explain your thoughts on this one more time? Maybe I will see it this time.

Ok so this time ill say that i can believe something that does not require me to act quite easily, and i might even act/work on someone else's belief that i don't believe will work, but they do so as i'm getting paid money for it i do it their way. But faith requires that i act on something that i believe.

Faith is not passive iow, as belief is, even though the "acting" might often be doing nothing when it appears like we should be doing something maybe. Hard to do nothing when someone slaps you on your cheek i guess right. Doing nothing becomes really a rather large something even maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

Not really to me Mark. It doesn't matter if I have faith BECAUSE I believe or the other way around. I know that satan "believes" and trembles...and he does not need faith as he knows his end.

Satan has faith and trembles, wadr?

And what about the possibility that we might believe, and yet have no faith?
I could suggest any number of simple tests for that

 

[bbyrd009]

Well you know what...? You giving that verse might just have popped the lightbulb on for me...the wattage is dim, but I might have a little bit of understanding on why Byrd says to believe and to have faith do have a difference...ill hop off the freeway and give that some thought...

Ok don't forget Satan trusts and has faith that God's plan will manifest or whatever the v says, and Satan serves God too, etc

James 2:19 Lexicon: You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

just ignore the scribe and click the link and see i guess

 

[Nancy]

Well you know what...? You giving that verse might just have popped the lightbulb on for me...the wattage is dim, but I might have a little bit of understanding on why Byrd says to believe and to have faith do have a difference...ill hop off the freeway and give that some thought...

Be careful! That freeway is PACKED! Kinda like your deck, lol! Lemme know what you come up with, my light bulb is pretty dim in many areas too!

 

[bbyrd009]

Ya, sorry, i should prolly smoke some dope first thing, just don't like it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Be careful! That freeway is PACKED! Kinda like your deck, lol! Lemme know what you come up with, my light bulb is pretty dim in many areas too!

Its just that I've talked with Byrd about this and my thought was that to trust(have faith) and to believe were only different in this respect: that when you say you trust God, you sometimes prove that you don't ( by worrying over temporal provision, for instance). So you can be saying you trust while proving you really don't!

But when I read what you posted (Satan believes God exists, in fact, he knows darn well that God exists!), ...oh dear, it popped back out of my head...

 

[Nancy]

Ya, sorry, i should prolly smoke some dope first thing, just don't like it.

Well, if you did...I'm sure the cars on the freeway will slow down at least 6 MPH while trying to find a fast food place...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh my gosh, lol at Nancy!