Faith with works is believing with obedience

[Ghada]

There's a real angst among some Christians about being justified by works, so that faith with works can never be even mentioned as part of being saved.

And so, we can call it believing with obedience. Afterall, we are commanded to repent and believe the gospel, and obey the gospel.

Therefore, we are commanded not only to believe the gospel, but to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches we are to believe the gospel with obedience, not with believing alone.

And certainly not believing with disobedience. Disobedient faith is not that of Jesus, but of the world. The devil teaches believing in disobeying God with eternal life.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

That is the gospel of believing without obedience and having faith disobediently unto everlasting life.

 

[Rockerduck]

John 15:5 - “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

 

[Bob Estey]

There's a real angst among some Christians about being justified by works, so that faith with works can never be even mentioned as part of being saved.

And so, we can call it believing with obedience. Afterall, we are commanded to repent and believe the gospel, and obey the gospel.

Therefore, we are commanded not only to believe the gospel, but to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches we are to believe the gospel with obedience, not with believing alone.

And certainly not believing with disobedience. Disobedient faith is not that of Jesus, but of the world. The devil teaches believing in disobeying God with eternal life.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

That is the gospel of believing without obedience and having faith disobediently unto everlasting life.

We need to have faith. We need to be obedient.

 

[Ghada]

Even as believing is obedience in the Bible, so is knowing only by doing.

In the Bible there is no such thing as faith without works, believing without obeying, and knowing without doing.

That's why the Bible says the married couple knows one another in the marriage bed. Bible knowledge is by hearing only, but Bible knowing is only by intimately doing it. It's the shared knowledge that is only between them doing it together.

That is also why God says to Abraham, now I know thou fearest Me. It's not a statement of knowledge ignorance beforehand,, but rather is a statement by the omniscient Word, that until we do the word of God, we do not know it nor Him, neither does He know us intimately to justify the work as being done by Him also through us.

Only when the work of Abraham offering up Isaac was finished, did both God and Abraham know one another intimately, because they both do the work together by the faith of God working in his heart and through his deed. And so the Bible says that faith is made perfect, whole, and complete ending in God and the believer working and doing His will together.

That's why man's righteousness done of his own will, and not done solely through the faith of God, is as filthy rags to God. Why? Because God is not working together with the man doing his own righteousness. That is why Titus 3 says we are not justified by any works of our own righteous will. And James 2 says we are only justified by works done with God together by His faith, even as Abraham and Rahab.

Man's knowledge only, is hearing without doing it, and is as dead as faith alone without doing the word. Only in doing the work, can anyone know what the work is. Someone decked out as a fisherman without fishing, does not know what fishing is, nor what it is to be a fisherman.

If any man will do his will, he shall know the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Jesus is plainly saying that the only way to know His doctrine and be saved and justified by His word of faith, is to do it. Only by doing the word and will of God, can any man know the doctrine and will of God.

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

By understanding Bible knowing is only by doing it, we see that Jesus is not speaking of just hearing the word and only having more knowledge of the truth. The freedom that Jesus gives is not as with the Gnostics, that believe knowledge alone is power and salvation. Jesus' freedom of life is only to them that know the truth, by believing His word and doing it.

This is further confirmed in John 3, that only those doing the truth come to the liberty and light of Christ. And again, that only those doing the Father's will are members of His family, and again only those doing the will of God shall abide forever, and finally only those doing good are born of God.

With the God of the Bible, there is only one way to be justified by Christ: doing the word, and not being a hearer only, which is to have knowledge only. Just knowing the words of the Bible makes no man free. By doing the word we know God, and He now knows we love and fear Him. Why? Because now He is doing the work together with us by the faith of Jesus unto justification of God.

 

[bro.tan]

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

 

[JunChosen]

There's a real angst among some Christians about being justified by works, so that faith with works can never be even mentioned as part of being saved.

And so, we can call it believing with obedience. Afterall, we are commanded to repent and believe the gospel, and obey the gospel.

Therefore, we are commanded not only to believe the gospel, but to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches we are to believe the gospel with obedience, not with believing alone.

And certainly not believing with disobedience. Disobedient faith is not that of Jesus, but of the world. The devil teaches believing in disobeying God with eternal life.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

That is the gospel of believing without obedience and having faith disobediently unto everlasting life.

If you have faith why do you need to exercise it?

Believing is a works Gospel!

To God Be The Glory

 

[GeneZ]

Our obedience becomes perfected by faithfully growing in accurate knowledge of God's Word.
For accurate knowledge is needed so we do not get in the way of the Spirit wanting to work through us.

Why is that?

We in our natural way of thinking can find ourselves getting in the way of the Spirit's desire out of our ignorance of God's Word.

​

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​

neither are your ways my ways,”​

declares the Lord.​

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,​

so are my ways higher than your ways​

and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9​

​

​

Our obedience is in a process of being perfected.
Perfected as we are willing to grow more and more in the grace and knowledge of God's Word.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. ​

Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." ​

Romans 12:2​

Our obedience is no better than our ability to know and to allow the Spirit do what is right through us by knowing the thinking with the ways of God.

Too many go by how they feel on a matter.

Sound doctrinal teaching is the only way to know.

God must provide.

 

[Ghada]

John 15:5 - “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

True. And without repenting, we cannot believe Him to do anything by His will.

Jesus faith that saves is belief from the heart unto His righteousness. Not repenting is not unto the righteousness of God without sin, but is only the partial righteousness of man that sins less, but is never not sinning.

The partial faith of Christian doctrine without repentance first, is not that of the whole faith and heart of Christ in the Bible.

Still sinning from time to time, and other times not, is the double hearted faith, where sometimes we believe in His righteousness, and sometimes we don't.

 

[Ghada]

We need to have faith. We need to be obedient.

We need to repent to do both.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance is both unto faith and salvation.

So long as our repentance is partial, so is our faith double hearted, and we are seeking both to do good and evil.

 

[Ghada]

We need to have faith. We need to be obedient.

We need to repent to do both.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance is both unto faith and salvation.

So long as our repentance is partial, so is our faith double hearted, and we are seeking both to do good and evil.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen).

True, Paul calls it obtaining salvation, and Jesus calls it being worthy of eternal salvation by resurrection from the dead.

(Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.

True. They call it having no part in their own salvation other than agreeing with the Bible. This is true for their doctrine and themselves, where they also will have no part in the first resurrection of the blessed.

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it.

They parse words here, by saying works prove faith, but they still separate works from that faith that saves.

What they are teaching is inward religion separated from outward religion. The world calls it religious hypocrisy.

 

[Ghada]

If you have faith why do you need to exercise it?

To be justified with God by the works of faith.

Believing is a works Gospel!

True. The Bible teaches it.

Some Christians say that believing is a work within the heart, so that they are justified inwardly by those 'works', though not outwardly by deeds of the body.

It's just another version of being saved and justified by faith alone without works. James 2 is speaking of having faith with works outwardly that do good for others.

 

[GeneZ]

Some Christians say that believing is a work within the heart, so that they are justified inwardly by those 'works', though not outwardly by deeds of the body.

It's just another version of being saved and justified by faith alone without works. James 2 is speaking of having faith with works outwardly that do good for others.

Yes... there is confusion over the issue of works.


Works is a system of prescribed deeds.... Believing is only 'one work.' Believing is not "works."

The contrast?

Works was a system of deeds usually prescribed by some holy man, or given by a religion.

The one work of believing is not works.
"Works" was understood when the Bible was written to mean something specific to their religious culture.

But, here is the one work that saves.

John 6:28-29​

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

Jews at that time could become disciples of rabbis they sought out and follow them.
That is why Jesus was called rabbi with his disciples.

The rabbis and Pharisees would prescribe their lists of works to do to be saved for their followers to do.
That is why Jews kept asking Jesus what works they must do to inherit eternal life.

Jesus said?

God prescribes only one work -"to believe."

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

grace and peace ..............

 

[JunChosen]

Yes... there is confusion over the issue of works.
Works is a system of prescribed deeds.... Believing is only 'one work.' Believing is not "works."

But, here is the one work that saves. John 6:28-29 reads:

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

God prescribes only one work -"to believe."

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

grace and peace .............

.

The above comments are of course, false or lack understanding thereof, BECAUSE Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 15:16 demands the opposite!

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 15:16:

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

These three Scripture passages has NEVER been abrogated!

To God Be The Glory

 

[GeneZ]

The above comments are of course, false or lack understanding thereof, BECAUSE Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 15:16 demands the opposite!

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 15:16:

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

These three Scripture passages has NEVER been abrogated!

To God Be The Glory

Go ahead... Ignore what was actually said.

Be cool... God loves you.

 

[mailmandan]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect harmony*

Man is saved through faith in Christ alone (apart from the merit of works) yet authentic faith does not remain alone (apart from the presence of works). This is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to accept.

 

[bro.tan]

True, Paul calls it obtaining salvation, and Jesus calls it being worthy of eternal salvation by resurrection from the dead.


True. They call it having no part in their own salvation other than agreeing with the Bible. This is true for their doctrine and themselves, where they also will have no part in the first resurrection of the blessed.


They parse words here, by saying works prove faith, but they still separate works from that faith that saves.

What they are teaching is inward religion separated from outward religion. The world calls it religious hypocrisy.

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. I believe this is the confusion, Because Paul talks about two types of deaths. Paul talks about two types of works. Paul talks about two different laws that use to work together.

 

[GeneZ]

Faith is "believing."

And, the one work (not works) God accepts is to believe in Him.

Think straight!

Works = is a system of deeds prescribed by religion to do as to try to win the approval of God!

Faith (believing) is one work. Faith is not a system of works prescribed by religion!

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

Jesus was saying that God has given us only one work to do. Which is, "To believe."

Some get a knee jerk reaction when they see the word "works."
They can not see straight when God says there is one work (not works) he requires of us.

FAITH is believing! Faith is the one work God approves of.

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, ​

and the message is heard through the word about Christ. Romans 10:17​

That is only one work we need to do. Its not "works."
Faith not some list of deeds to do that religion will try to tell us is needed. That would be works.

We need to learn to think straight by grace....

grace and peace ...................

 

[GeneZ]

The above comments are of course, false or lack understanding thereof, BECAUSE Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 15:16 demands the opposite!

You do not understand the differences between what "works" means, and what one work Jesus said we need to do means.

The Pharisees and other religions assigned people to a long list of things to do in order to try to please God. That system was called "works."

Jesus said God gives us only ONE work to do. To "believe."

Believing equals FAITH.

Get it now?

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 4 is good at explaining how salvation is of faith, that it might be according to grace and not of works.

What I get from good works is rewards, not salvation

Abraham Justified by Faith​

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth​

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Abraham Justified Before Circumcision​

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

The Promise Granted Through Faith​

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.