The inward signs of a true believer in God

[APAK]

A true believer is one who hears and firmly believes in heart, the gospel of salvation for the Kingdom of God.

They are forgiven of sin by true repentance and faith given of the grace of God, in the Son of God, as their redeemer and savior.

And, then given the Spirit of the Son of God and thus sealed with common access to and by the Father God of truth having been baptized and living in the Son of God today; to then be considered justified so to be declared one of the righteous ones of God and being filled with its fruits to the glory of God.

And, then to walk in truth and holiness in the Son of God as a new spirit creature, as one person carrying the same cross of redemption, in the progressive pursuit of becoming the true image of mind and heart, of the Son of God in glory – as the Son is the perfect image of his Father.

This process in life is working out our own salvation in humility and love, of deep reverence to God, to become perfected in God.

(reference my own interpreted scripture below)
-----------------------------------
Matt 16:24/ Luke 9:23/ Romans 6:11 – in me you will deny or yield yourself of own will and become dead to sin, and carry your cross as me

John 16:13-15 – The Spirit of truth guides a believer into all truth and knowledge of the Son of God for his glory given by God

Romans 8:9 – If the Spirit of God is in you, then you are a believer, a member of the Body of Christ

1 Cor 1:13 – we are baptized into one spirit/body of Christ and lives in it as one

2 Cor 5:17 – Those living in Christ’s spirit today are a new creatures, a new spirit has been born to grow into, as another Christ

Gal 2:20 – Been crucified in Christ and thus resurrected, baptized into Christ and living in me as being him and not our former self

Eph 1:13-14 – believers in the gospel of truth are sealed with the Spirit of God

Phil 1:6 – The Father God began working in us (righteousness and holiness) to keep on perfecting us (into the image of his Son) until the day of his Son’s arrival

Phil 1:11 – Being filled with the fruits of righteousness in the Son of God to the glory of his Father God

Phil 2:12-13 – we work out our own salvation in deep reverence of body and soul, as it is the work of God in you

Col 3:3-4 – We died in Christ as our life hid in him, and thus in our Father God, and our life will be revealed in Christ, in glory, with him

1 Peter 1: 15-16 - The one called (drew) you to himself, God, who is holy; therefore you shall be holy

1 John 2:29 – a believer is one who is of God of his own righteousness

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Therefore, conversely. an unbeliever of God can non-exhaustively be defined as one who is of age, mature to think independently, to be of sound mind, capable to understand and know and make a choice under no coercion, by heart and mind, to then deliberately not believe in God once given the opportunity to hear or read his word of the gospel of truth, salvation for and into his kingdom, whether presented in its primitive form of the OT, or in its final mature state of the NT, or in another form that God identifies with, as his truth for salvation.

Please feel free to add your comments that may improve and clarify this central key Christian topic further, also crucial for any person of God who is either still seeking him out or has already found him in their life.

It’s meant to further and share knowledge as a learning Bible study experience for everyone.

Blessing to all...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A true believer is one who hears and firmly believes in heart, the gospel of salvation for the Kingdom of God.

They are forgiven of sin by true repentance and faith given of the grace of God, in the Son of God, as their redeemer and savior.

And, then given the Spirit of the Son of God and thus sealed with common access to and by the Father God of truth having been baptized and living in the Son of God today; to then be considered justified so to be declared one of the righteous ones of God and being filled with its fruits to the glory of God.

And, then to walk in truth and holiness in the Son of God as a new spirit creature, as one person carrying the same cross of redemption, in the progressive pursuit of becoming the true image of mind and heart, of the Son of God in glory – as the Son is the perfect image of his Father.

This process in life is working out our own salvation in humility and love, of deep reverence to God, to become perfected in God.

(reference my own interpreted scripture below)
-----------------------------------
Matt 16:24/ Luke 9:23/ Romans 6:11 – in me you will deny or yield yourself of own will and become dead to sin, and carry your cross as me

John 16:13-15 – The Spirit of truth guides a believer into all truth and knowledge of the Son of God for his glory given by God

Romans 8:9 – If the Spirit of God is in you, then you are a believer, a member of the Body of Christ

1 Cor 1:13 – we are baptized into one spirit/body of Christ and lives in it as one

2 Cor 5:17 – Those living in Christ’s spirit today are a new creatures, a new spirit has been born to grow into, as another Christ

Gal 2:20 – Been crucified in Christ and thus resurrected, baptized into Christ and living in me as being him and not our former self

Eph 1:13-14 – believers in the gospel of truth are sealed with the Spirit of God

Phil 1:6 – The Father God began working in us (righteousness and holiness) to keep on perfecting us (into the image of his Son) until the day of his Son’s arrival

Phil 1:11 – Being filled with the fruits of righteousness in the Son of God to the glory of his Father God

Phil 2:12-13 – we work out our own salvation in deep reverence of body and soul, as it is the work of God in you

Col 3:3-4 – We died in Christ as our life hid in him, and thus in our Father God, and our life will be revealed in Christ, in glory, with him

1 Peter 1: 15-16 - The one called (drew) you to himself, God, who is holy; therefore you shall be holy

1 John 2:29 – a believer is one who is of God of his own righteousness

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore, an unbeliever of God can non-exhaustively be defined as one who is of age, mature to think independently, to be of sound mind, capable to understand and know and make a choice under no coercion, by heart and mind, to then deliberately not believe in God once given the opportunity to hear or read his word of the gospel of truth, salvation for and into his kingdom, whether presented in its primitive form of the OT, or in its final mature state of the NT, or in another form that God identifies with, as his truth for salvation.

Please feel free to add your comments that may improve and clarify this central key Christian topic further, also crucial for any person of God who is either still seeking him out or has already found him in their life.

It’s meant to further and share knowledge as a learning Bible study experience for everyone.

Blessing to all...

Hi old friend

I would just like to add a word about repentance.

I've heard the definition of repentance as us turning away from sin. But there is nothing in us to empower us from not turning back to that sin. Thus the interpretation of 1 John 1:9 as almost a get out of jail card for every time we willfully sin.

No! 1 John 1:9 from John is the same as Luke's Acts 2:38 verse acknowledging our complete hopelessness of freeing ourselves from sin and recognizing that Jesus is stronger than we are so asking Him to come inside of us as His Spirit to empower us and cleansing our very lowest nature of sin, that Paul called "the old man" freeing us from all desire to break any of what James called the royal laws of sin, and as Peter said empowering us to partake of the divine nature of God, 2 Peter 1:2-4. I like what John said in 1 John 3:8-9 "He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

 

[Ritajanice]

A true Born Again...will be made into the image of Jesus, why, because they have been Born Of God, it’s his seed that indwells their heart...they will be transformed there is no stopping it, on saying that I believe we can hinder the work of the Spirit in our spirit, ...I know I did, but it was done out of ignorance...

I mean to be in the world one minute then to be Born Again the next is a huge shock to the system!...being Born Again for me was mind blowing.

I also believe that our will needs to be in harmony with the Spirit again that takes time to learn and understand, we learn from the Spirit, which can take years...after all we learnt so much wrong from the world/ parents, it has all got to be unlearned...I can go on and on and on with my testimony.

Another sign..is maturing in Jesus fruit, “ Fruit of His Spirit “...I’ll stop there Brother,, lol = lots of love.xx

 

[APAK]

Hi old friend

I would just like to add a word about repentance.

I've heard the definition of repentance as us turning away from sin. But there is nothing in us to empower us from not turning back to that sin. Thus the interpretation of 1 John 1:9 as almost a get out of jail card for every time we willfully sin.

No! 1 John 1:9 from John is the same as Luke's Acts 2:38 verse acknowledging our complete hopelessness of freeing ourselves from sin and recognizing that Jesus is stronger than we are so asking Him to come inside of us as His Spirit to empower us and cleansing our very lowest nature of sin, that Paul called "the old man" freeing us from all desire to break any of what James called the royal laws of sin, and as Peter said empowering us to partake of the divine nature of God, 2 Peter 1:2-4. I like what John said in 1 John 3:8-9 "He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

A classic and important topic 1C milady...

Repentance...
The use of the word 'willfully' is a redundant adjective to describe sinning, imo. If one truly sins and it is truly sin, then it's always done willfully, as a bump and hesitation, and not necessarily a fall in our holy walk as a Christian believer.

And as far as the get-out-jail card for repentance is concerned, if one is truly in the spirit of Christ we would never use repentance in such a way to serve our carnal and selfish appetite for any length of time in our lives. We are intertwined in Christ's spirit and this same sin that is usually addressed, or keeps popping up, will be either gone even over a a long time, or as a struggle in life to overcome it. And if we have many of this type we will surely struggle in our walk of faith. That is why everyone's working out our salvation is different.

In 1 John 1 :5-9, this is a reminder that we must note how we walk in life, in the light. If we stray off course we sin and need to go to God and 'willfully' purposely desire to turn away from this particular sin in our lives. And if we are not truly sincere, it will surely come back to haunt us again. And it must also have registered with us as a conviction by God's spirit already. He is patient and he will keep cleaning up our mess-ups this way.

And we are already in Christ's spirit and do not have to go anywhere as we are still walking in the light...as my opinion. His spirit is there already' always, it is planted to grow us to perfection. It is his Father we have to address our sin to in fact. And the spirit of Christ within us mediates this sin for us.

Always in Christ as your brother...

 

[APAK]

A true Born Again...will be made into the image of Jesus, why, because they have been Born Of God, it’s his seed that indwells their heart...they will be transformed there is no stopping it, on saying that I believe we can hinder the work of the Spirit in our spirit, ...I know I did, but it was done out of ignorance...

I mean to be in the world one minute then to be Born Again the next is a huge shock to the system!...being Born Again for me was mind blowing.

I also believe that our will needs to be in harmony with the Spirit again that takes time to learn and understand, we learn from the Spirit, which can take years...after all we learnt so much wrong from the world/ parents, it has all got to be unlearned...I can go on and on and on with my testimony.

Another sign..is maturing in Jesus fruit, “ Fruit of His Spirit “...I’ll stop there Brother,, lol = lots of love.xx

We sure learn a great deal from the spirit of our saviour within us that always pleases our God.

You know one important thing that can cause and does cause confusion even in this important topic especially, is how we view God, as one person or more than one person.

I would like to leave this out of the topic discussion as it can migrate to this area and then the message of a believer can be lost.

We are moving to be the perfect image of Christ's spirit, to perfection as Paul only knew too well it would never happen in his fleshly state.

 

[APAK]

@1stCenturyLady another thing I wanted to mention from your interesting post...on repentance. On its effect in our walk

Because of sin, and being in that state for a time or a moment, we have then momentarily 'fallen out' of love or in closeness of the spirit of Christ and because we have now offended his/our Father in the process. We have not lost salvation or not being saved however. Our walk has now been hampered. Now true repentance once approved of God brings us back into Christ, back into a close relationship walk we have in Christ. This is one way to get back into or to remain in Christ although I would not make it a habit as the only method.

And some or just a few might say we have to go into Christ all the time it seems, in order to walk perfectly in sinless glory. If we are in good standing with God in our walk then we are also in Christ and do not need to reenter as we left his spirit in the first place. I say this because those that think this extreme way is teaching a very unrealistic and even dangerous approach to being in Christ. I think @Ritajanice might also know what I mean here.

We stay in Christ and abide in him by focusing our life every day on the Father and what he and his Son did for us, and in turn we stay or abide in Christ's spirit. We show love to others and give to others of our time and even our material things as required . We listen to God and for his will for us whilst on this earth. We pray for needs and for others, and in thanksgiving and joy. We read the word of God for meaning and increased wisdom and knowledge and truth. This is one solid way to abide in Christ, remaining in the Son's spirit, or being already into him.

Unfortunately, whilst in this life, we still have a decaying old man, the old self, or the outer man that is still decaying or fading away that is still a drag on our inner self from complete freedom and dominance. We seem to still have it around that keeps us from becoming sinless in perfection....

(2Co 4:16) Therefore we do not give up, but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.

We are growing into the true and perfect image of Christ's spirit. Amen!

PS before I forget...we came into Christ when we were first baptized in the spirit....we never are truly out of Christ since that time...we are sealed by God. We may offend at times as squelching the Spirit, although this is not being out of Christ as if his Spirit also left and we are not still being saved.....never.no never..

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A classic and important topic 1C milady...

Repentance...
The use of the word 'willfully' is a redundant adjective to describe sinning, imo. If one truly sins and it is truly sin, then it's always done willfully, as a bump and hesitation, and not necessarily a fall in our holy walk as a Christian believer.

And as far as the get-out-jail card for repentance is concerned, if one is truly in the spirit of Christ we would never use repentance in such a way to serve our carnal and selfish appetite for any length of time in our lives. We are intertwined in Christ's spirit and this same sin that is usually addressed, or keeps popping up, will be either gone even over a a long time, or as a struggle in life to overcome it. And if we have many of this type we will surely struggle in our walk of faith. That is why everyone's working out our salvation is different.

In 1 John 1 :5-9, this is a reminder that we must note how we walk in life, in the light. If we stray off course we sin and need to go to God and 'willfully' purposely desire to turn away from this particular sin in our lives. And if we are not truly sincere, it will surely come back to haunt us again. And it must also have registered with us as a conviction by God's spirit already. He is patient and he will keep cleaning up our mess-ups this way.

And we are already in Christ's spirit and do not have to go anywhere as we are still walking in the light...as my opinion. His spirit is there already' always, it is planted to grow us to perfection. It is his Father we have to address our sin to in fact. And the spirit of Christ within us mediates this sin for us.

Always in Christ as your brother...

1 John 1:9 being the same repentance as Acts 2:38 is to receive the Holy Spirit, the power of God. This first repentance after believing in Christ is how to become a Christian. There are two types of sin: sins unto death (breaking one of the royal moral laws, commandments 5-10), and sins NOT unto death, immature fruit of the Spirit. That first repentance is cleansing our sin nature back to a clean nature, cleansing us of the desire to commit any of the royal moral laws - sins unto death, taking us to eternal life. We are now abiding in Jesus. 1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Abiding in Jesus continuously is important. It protects us from grieving or even quenching the Spirit and willfully breaking a moral law of God. For sins unto death, yes, that would always be willful, and very hard on your Spirit led conscience. But more important is the fact that we are not abiding in Jesus which is also needed for the second stage of our walking in the Spirit - maturing in the fruit of the Spirit.

John in his gospel shows the importance of continuing to abide in Jesus. And notice that John shows us that our nature is clean, thus negating the false doctrine of Christians having a sin nature.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Apak, willfully sinning after receiving the Holy Spirit I don't think I could commit. Maybe you are thinking about willfully committing a sin NOT unto death. I know I needed to grow in the fruit of the Spirit even after receiving the Holy Spirit.

Christians that do not abide in Jesus have consequences. It can take us all the way back to sins unto death. That is what happened to these people:

Matthew 7:19-23
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[APAK]

1 John 1:9 being the same repentance as Acts 2:38 is to receive the Holy Spirit, the power of God. This first repentance after believing in Christ is how to become a Christian. There are two types of sin: sins unto death (breaking one of the royal moral laws, commandments 5-10), and sins NOT unto death, immature fruit of the Spirit. That first repentance is cleansing our sin nature back to a clean nature, cleansing us of the desire to commit any of the royal moral laws - sins unto death, taking us to eternal life. We are now abiding in Jesus. 1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Abiding in Jesus continuously is important. It protects us from grieving or even quenching the Spirit and willfully breaking a moral law of God. For sins unto death, yes, that would always be willful, and very hard on your Spirit led conscience. But more important is the fact that we are not abiding in Jesus which is also needed for the second stage of our walking in the Spirit - maturing in the fruit of the Spirit.

John in his gospel shows the importance of continuing to abide in Jesus. And notice that John shows us that our nature is clean, thus negating the false doctrine of Christians having a sin nature.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Apak, willfully sinning after receiving the Holy Spirit I don't think I could commit. Maybe you are thinking about willfully committing a sin NOT unto death. I know I needed to grow in the fruit of the Spirit even after receiving the Holy Spirit.

Christians that do not abide in Jesus have consequences. It can take us all the way back to sins unto death. That is what happened to these people:

Matthew 7:19-23
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Well said and more for me to ponder on if you still remember I like to add, useful information to yours or other posts. I may take more time this time to just ponder on it....thanks for you complete response...as usual..

Blessings to you and have a great weekend sister

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Unfortunately, whilst in this life, we still have a decaying old man, the old self, or the outer man that is still decaying or fading away that is still a drag on our inner self from complete freedom and dominance. We seem to still have it around that keeps us from becoming sinless in perfection....

We see in Revelation 22:11 there are two stages in our walk. Righteousness and Holiness. Hebrews 12 starts out telling us that Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, not us.

1 John 3 shows us how we become righteous, also known as sinless. That is on day one of being a true Spirit filled Christian. This is not sinless perfection. Those are separate and years apart.

Then comes the years of developing the fruit of the Spirit. Once we are mature in all of the fruit of the Spirit. verse 10 below shows that is when we will "never stumble." That is perfection and holiness.

2 Peter 1:5-11
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

PS before I forget...we came into Christ when we were first baptized in the spirit....we never are truly out of Christ since that time...we are sealed by God. We may offend at times as squelching the Spirit, although this is not being out of Christ as if his Spirit also left and we are not still being saved.....never.no never..

I can't agree as Matthew 7:19-23 shows a Spirit-filled Christian casting out demons and prophesying, yet must have gone back to lawlessness. That's sins unto death and Jesus says He never knew them! That had me scratching my head for a long time. I finally figured out that Jesus sees us before we were ever born and what condition we were in when we died. Either with Him in heaven, or with Satan in the lake of fire.

 

[Behold]

And, then given the Spirit of the Son of God and thus sealed with common access to and by the Father God of truth having been baptized

According to your post....... @APAK

Are you teaching that "having been baptized" is why the person has been given the "Spirit of the Son of God"?

Are you teaching that "during water baptism" is when this happens?

Are you teaching this "baptized" as Water Baptism?

= Catholicism? as the "cult of Mary" teaches..

1.) Born again.... = BY WATER...

 

[APAK]

According to your post....... @APAK

Are you teaching that "having been baptized" is why the person has been given the "Spirit of the Son of God"?

Are you teaching that "during water baptism" is when this happens?

Are you teaching this "baptized" as Water Baptism?

= Catholicism? as the "cult of Mary" teaches..

1.) Born again.... = BY WATER...

Reread my OP again and find the scripture I used for it...1 Cor 1:13

 

[Behold]

@APAK wrote

"""""then given the Spirit of the Son of God and thus sealed with common access to and by the Father God of truth having been baptized""""


So, i'll ask you again.
Are you teaching that BAPTISM, is REQUIRED?

If so, Which are you describing?

 

[APAK]

We see in Revelation 22:11 there are two stages in our walk. Righteousness and Holiness. Hebrews 12 starts out telling us that Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, not us.

1 John 3 shows us how we become righteous, also known as sinless. That is on day one of being a true Spirit filled Christian. This is not sinless perfection. Those are separate and years apart.

Then comes the years of developing the fruit of the Spirit. Once we are mature in all of the fruit of the Spirit. verse 10 below shows that is when we will "never stumble." That is perfection and holiness.

2 Peter 1:5-11
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I can't agree as Matthew 7:19-23 shows a Spirit-filled Christian casting out demons and prophesying, yet must have gone back to lawlessness. That's sins unto death and Jesus says He never knew them! That had me scratching my head for a long time. I finally figured out that Jesus sees us before we were ever born and what condition we were in when we died. Either with Him in heaven, or with Satan in the lake of fire.

You have brought in a few major areas of Christian life already. And a big one concerns our walk...

I do not see in scripture and my life that there are two stages in my walk, one of righteousness is first and holiness then dominates the second part. I'm assuming you meant this as the two stage walk. And Rev 22:11 to me does not say this at all. It is just contrasting the wicked unsaved characteristics versus the those being saved in both righteousness and holiness at the same time.

And further, righteous and holiness are attributes of being saved together. One cannot be righteous or being sanctified without being holy and visa versa. They are there as one package to walk in, as in Christ's spirit.

Now, there is one major popular school of thought that says holiness is progressive, and we become more holy over time in our walk as we mature. Now scripture says we are holy because God is holy indeed. Yes we are holy as long as we stay in Christ all the time in our walk. And unfortunately it is impossible to be in that state continuously in our lives. So I believe in a progressive sense of being holy only in the times we have not offended God, and are focused on God and his Son in our lives. And we must address any obvious infraction caused in our walk first, to then reengage and become holy once more. So I do not think we become more holy over time, it's that we can become unholy at times in our walk. We have the full measure of, or degree of holiness in our walk from the start of conversion and it does not somehow increase. That would not make any sense to me.

Now there is another thought of holiness in our walk shared by only a few fortunately, that we can attain perfect holiness in our walk for a 'long' period of time. I do not believe in this thought at all. It is like a monk's walk in complete isolation, away from human contact. It is not possible in my view. And how can anyone stay so focused in their life and walk to maintain this state for weeks or even months on end, let alone for a year or two? God is the judge of this matter and not us. This is an area where I tread lightly, that we are not completely sure of and that is why we must work out our salvation with trembling and fear, deep reverence and humility to not attempt to overreach and overstep into God's domain out of pride or ignorance without his consent.

I also believe we are in the Kingdom today as we walk, as the main earthly vessels performing God's will as it is being done in Heaven.

And I do not think we walk in and out of the Kingdom every time we temporarily zone out and sin and reengage quickly. Now for major infractions in life we might be sent to the sin bin, some part outside the Kingdom realm for a spell.

What do you think Mlady?

 

[Ritajanice]

APAX, this isn’t aimed at you...what would you think if one has been Born Again...yet there is no fruit of Jesus ...no evidence of any fruit.

God does say, we will know them by their fruit?

I do believe it takes time to understand Jesus fruit in us plus it can can yrs to mature...as we need to understand his fruit....

Would you say our own selfish ego can hinder Jesus fruit from maturing in us?

May be also done out of ignorance....why do we ( some of us) want to hold onto self?

It serves no purpose whatsoever...on saying that, only the Spirit can speak to our heart/ spirit....

Just my thoughts.xx

All that said..if it’s Gods will that we bear the fruit of Jesus..nothing can thwart his will...I have always rested in that knowledge.

 

[mailmandan]

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

I once came across someone who interpreted verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Ritajanice]

We were cleansed by the blood of the Lamb plus when we became Born Again...God sees our sin no more...the slate is clean, no more repenting or confession of sins..imo/ belief.

 

[MatthewG]

We were cleansed by the blood of the Lamb plus when we became Born Again...God sees our sin no more...the slate is clean, no more repenting or confession of sins..imo/ belief.

Hello Rita,

It seems kind of useless to tell God who lives in you about the sin you already deal with… it’s not like one doesn’t struggle period ever, or that he doesn’t know. Just as Jesus was tempted we are tempted to take and try to do things our own way instead of by the Spirit.

 

[APAK]

@APAK wrote

"""""then given the Spirit of the Son of God and thus sealed with common access to and by the Father God of truth having been baptized""""


So, i'll ask you again.
Are you teaching that BAPTISM, is REQUIRED?

If so, Which are you describing?

Look you tell me if it is required. I've told you what I wrote now figure it out for yourself, as you continue to throw yourself in-between nearly every conversion on this site that does not sit right with you.

A similar question back to you: Is baptism symbolic, more than symbolic, figurative or literal or both Behold?

 

[APAK]

APAX, this isn’t aimed at you...what would you think if one has been Born Again...yet there is no fruit of Jesus ...no evidence of any fruit.

God does say, we will know them by their fruit?

I do believe it takes time to understand Jesus fruit in us plus it can can yrs to mature...as we need to understand his fruit....

Would you say our own selfish ego can hinder Jesus fruit from maturing in us?

May be also done out of ignorance....why do we ( some of us) want to hold onto self?

It serves no purpose whatsoever...on saying that, only the Spirit can speak to our heart/ spirit....

Just my thoughts.xx

All that said..if it’s Gods will that we bear the fruit of Jesus..nothing can thwart his will...I have always rested in that knowledge.

Not quite sure where you are going with this...
How do you know there is no fruit being generated? Does this fruit have to be quickly matured to show yourself or to others? Then for what purpose? It does take time..in being joyful, loving, patient, and that a harder one for me at times, etc...

We all know them by their fruit is especially true of and with other brothers and sisters in Christ. The world sometimes does not care, as their spirit is places for other pressing selfish needs instead of God's will.

Is being patience in this spiritual growth bothering you today?

 

[Behold]

We have the full measure of, or degree of holiness in our walk from the start of conversion and it does not somehow increase. That would not make any sense to me.

When a person comes to God by Faith in Christ... God gives them "Christ's righteousness" as "the imputed righteousness of Christ'.

This is the "Divine Exchange", where by Jesus takes your sin, as "God hath made Jesus to BE .Sin....for us".

In other words, Jesus becomes our sin, as If He is the sinner.....= "God hath laid on Jesus the SIN (iniquity) .. of us ALL"..

Isaiah 53:6

That is John 3:16..... and 2 Corinthians 5:19... and Romans 3:17.

And what do we become now that Jesus has become our sin bearer?

We, the Born again become .."Made Righteous".... "made free from sin".. having Become..."THE Righteousness of God, in Christ"

How do we get that?

= "imputed righteousness" as "THE GIFT of Righteousness".

So, that is how we start as CHRISTians.......... and only 2 seconds earlier we were SINNERS, unforgiven..

Now, we are "made righteous", "Saints".

There is our Salvation...

But now, the next day starts and there you are born again, made righteous, and yet you have wrong thought patterns and you have habits and behavior issues, that are of the MIND.......not the Spirit.. as the Spirit is born again, but your MIND is not.

So, the process of Discipleship, the literal important part, is not trying to be some fake imitation of Christ.......but its to understand fully, who you have become, as a "new Creation IN Christ"....as learning what this is all about, is how you "work out your Salvation".

See reader, if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious.... YOU ALREADY HAVE SALVATION....... AND NOW you are to learn how to exist in it., correctly.... = by gaining all the revelation knowledge that is available to you, so that you get your mind in line with God's perspective of you.

Baby Christians, do not have this yet., and they can be 50 yrs saved.
Mature BELIEVERS, do have the REVELATION.... and the mature believer, is this one...Paul teaches....>"as many as be PERFECT">.

And that means that you have attained to God's perspective regarding what it means to be a "new Creation in Christ".

If you dont have it.....you'll be talking about sin a lot.. You'll be trying to confess sin... You'll believe you can lose your salvation... You'll talk about Law and commandments a lot,.. You will believe that water washed away your sin.... and you will have no understanding of the Cross of Christ.