Faithful and Just to Forgive . . .

[Cooper]

Have you ever thought about the thief on the cross. When did he repent? What makes people believe he was never baptized? I hear that a lot.

I’m not sure if the repentant thief had been baptised, but I know he believed in Jesus, calling him Lord, and saying for Jesus to “remember me when thou comest into THY kingdom.” Faith and knowledge together. Jesus assured him by saying, “today you will be with me in Paradise. Paradise is the third heaven (2Co_12:2, 2Co_12:4) and means the dwelling place of God, but you know this.

 

[bbyrd009]

Something to do with @bbyrd009 favorite quote" who told you, you where naked". I guess that comes when we discover how perfect He is and how imperfect we are so many run and hide from Him, as if they could.

a great def of hell might be the inability to accept forgiveness, imo. Which does not make sense maybe, until we contemplate having been forgiven or forgiving someone who does not feel they are in error...

 

[CharismaticLady]

I’m not sure if the repentant thief had been baptised, but I know he believed in Jesus, calling him Lord, and saying for Jesus to “remember me when thou comest into THY kingdom.” Faith and knowledge together. Jesus assured him by saying, “today you will be with me in Paradise. Paradise is the third heaven (2Co_12:2, 2Co_12:4) and means the dwelling place of God, but you know this.

I believe he was baptized and understood His teachings. Who knows when he had been stealing. After all, Matthew used to be a tax collector. Do you know, you are the first person I have asked that actually picked up on the fact that he had knowledge of His teachings. And as far as faith, he had more faith than the 12 apostles put together! He understood that Christ's 'kingdom' was not of this world as they were both dying.

 

[Davy]

So just because John used the word "we" you believe instead of TO Christians, he's talking ABOUT Christians.

If you believe 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are describing true Christians, what do you think of Paul's writing in Romans 7:9. Is that about Paul when he used the word "I"?

Now you are... in lawyer mode, trying to argue about the word 'we'. Pathetic. The whole 1 John 1 chapter is directly to and about believers on Christ Jesus. The beloved 'contrast' that you feel so dearly is simply about the difference between a believer that stays in Christ vs. one that falls short and has need of repentance. It's as simple as that.

 

[Davy]

You won't hear that from me. No, it would be a sin to teach that everybody sins so you can too while in this body of flesh, and the blood of Jesus will cover your sin.

There's not enough... rebuke in the Churches today according to the Word of God regarding sin. If there were, there wouldn't be so many believers today following the world and allowing paganism in their churches with universalist movements.

And Apostle Paul was specific about unruly Jewish converts especially...

Titus 1:10-14
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, 'The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.'
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
KJV

 

[CharismaticLady]

Now you are... in lawyer mode, trying to argue about the word 'we'. Pathetic. The whole 1 John 1 chapter is directly to and about believers on Christ Jesus. The beloved 'contrast' that you feel so dearly is simply about the difference between a believer that stays in Christ vs. one that falls short and has need of repentance. It's as simple as that.

Do you believe Romans 7:14-23 is speaking about Paul as a Christian? If so, why? If not, why?

 

[Davy]

Do you believe Romans 7:14-23 is speaking about Paul as a Christian? If so, why? If not, why?

What? Who else besides himself do you think Apostle Paul was speaking that about?? I don't have time for silly arguments.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What? Who else besides himself do you think Apostle Paul was speaking that about?? I don't have time for silly arguments.

I said, "as a Christian"? Or was he speaking of himself as once a Pharisee? The other alternative? Or was he speaking as a representative of mankind and more general?

 

[Nancy]

And the sign of the N.C is His death and resurrection.

I also believe that Jesus mentioned- " Those who "seek signs".

Why does anyone "need" a greater sign that Jesus Christ Himself. View attachment 8544

Christ Himself is the sum of all spiritual things.

I think you were right on about the sign of Jonah earlier @Helen

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah." And He left them and went away." Matthew 16:4
(3 days and 3 nights) Hmm, where have we heard this before

 

[Cooper]

I believe he was baptized and understood His teachings. Who knows when he had been stealing. After all, Matthew used to be a tax collector. Do you know, you are the first person I have asked that actually picked up on the fact that he had knowledge of His teachings. And as far as faith, he had more faith than the 12 apostles put together! He understood that Christ's 'kingdom' was not of this world as they were both dying.

It is possible the repentant thief was among the thousands who followed Jesus and one of the many who was baptised. His repentance may be significant?

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is possible the repentant thief was among the thousands who followed Jesus and one of the many who was baptised. His repentance may be significant?

By what he knows and understands, he must have repented and been baptized long ago and followed Christ for some time. He may have had a warrant out for his arrest from years ago. These are just guesses, but educated guesses based on observation.

 

[Davy]

I said, "as a Christian"? Or was he speaking of himself as once a Pharisee? The other alternative? Or was he speaking as a representative of mankind and more general?

That's still a crazy thought I refuse to entertain. Apostle Paul knew exactly who he was and who Christ Jesus is, especially after Jesus converted him on the road to Damascus. Maybe you ought to ask Jesus who Paul was after his conversion?

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's still a crazy thought I refuse to entertain. Apostle Paul knew exactly who he was and who Christ Jesus is, especially after Jesus converted him on the road to Damascus. Maybe you ought to ask Jesus who Paul was after his conversion?

I'm sorry that giving you options made you confused. Let's start over. You quoted Romans 7. Do you believe Paul was referring to the person struggling with sin in Romans 7:14-23 was a Christian, or is it someone under the law? The "I" references were not Paul, himself, but just a style of teaching, as John did in 1 John 1.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why do you think Jesus will say to some, "I never knew you, you workers of wickedness"? It is because of doctrines like that.

That was people who where running around doing there own thing.

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus already has, and given me His powerful Spirit to empower me not to sin.

So you have faith, but no power?

It is faith that pleases God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That was people who where running around doing there own thing.

Are you talking about the gifts? You miss the point if you think the wickedness has to do with God's gifts. It meant that even though there will be some who do wonderful things in Jesus name, secretly their hearts are wicked. I'm afraid for some TV evangelists who are so money hungry they become extortionists promoting "seed faith".

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is faith that pleases God.

What is faith if that person still sins in the flesh? Jesus came to free us from sin, not freedom to sin. Which is it in your mind. You worry me. Are you turning the grace of God into licentiousness? Do you believe the doctrine that we will always sin in the flesh and belief in Jesus does nothing to stop you? Have you convinced yourself that God knows we are weak so sent His Son to take the penalty for the sins, but He gives you no power to stop you from committing? I hope not. So the bottom line is, do you fulfill the lust of your flesh, or walk in the Spirit?

 

[marks]

Under the Old Covenant, yes, working on the Sabbath resulted in death. It was the sign of the Old Covenant. We are not under the Old Covenant anymore, so neither are we under the sign of that covenant.

If this is true, then why are you using the old covenant to define sin in our lives now?

 

[marks]

Doesn't it ever amaze you just how much time christians ...think, dwell, and talk about sin. They are much more busy talking, thinking, and dwelling on all the things about sin than talking, dwelling , thinking on the awesome Glory and Victory of Almighty God. Christian here seem obsessed with the sin complex.
What a way for christians to carry on...it's pretty sad.

Nice segue . . .

God is faithful and just to forgive.

I've been looking at "just to forgive", He also says, "faithful to forgive" . . . .

As a faithful Creator . . . Who created because it pleased Him to do so, it still pleases Him to recreate us!

Wanting us to only agree with Him, confess, so that He may forgive.

The faithfulness of God, that's how I can live. Not because I am faithful, because He is faithful.

1 Thessalonians 5
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 Corinthians 1
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

God is faithful to sanctify us, and faithful to forgive.

Unless our sanctification were complete in our lives at the moment of salvation, there will be sin. But God is faithful to, well, here are His words . . .

Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"

Until the day of Christ . . . this is going to be happening our entire lives in this world.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

If this is true, then why are you using the old covenant to define sin in our lives now?

It showed us what were sins unto death, and sins not unto death.

Ask yourself. If 1 John 3:9 says we cannot sin with the seed of the Father in us, then what sins is Jesus cleansing and is our advocate for 1 John 1:7; 1 John 2:1? You can't just make something up, you have to go back to where definitions were given - our schoolmaster, the Old Testament.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.