Faithful and Just to Forgive . . .

[Davy]

However, 2 Peter 1:9 talks about our past sins being forgiven. No where does it say a Christian's present and future sins are forgiven. We are not to commit them in the first place, so no need to repent of sins your are not committing.

That's silly too, because 2 Peter 1:9 is specifically talking about sins that were in past history. Peter is talking to Christian brethren about their calling and their previous corruptions vs. the promises in Christ. You couldn't be more mistaken as to what that 2 Peter 1 Scripture is about!

2 Peter 1:2-9
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him That hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
KJV

When Peter gets to the 9th verse, he is comparing the believer that does not have those previously mentioned things, and shows that one has forgotten that Jesus died for his "old sins". What? old sins? Are you confused with the words 'old', which points to the past? I hope you didn't make that doctrine up you claim in this post. I hope that was some idea the Grace movement taught you, which of course is totally deceiving of that 2 Peter 1:9 verse.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No, you cannot create a division like that in 1 John 1. From the very first verse, it's clear that John is speaking to believers on Christ Jesus. You can't make an excuse to serve the Hyper-Grace theory just because you don't understand the 1 John 3:9 verse.

Are you ready for some advanced theology? All the apostles were Jews and wrote with Hebrew writing styles. One of those styles is called contrasts. That is what John uses in 1 John 1 and 1 John 3. Here is the part of 1 John 1:5-10 that are contrasts.

5 God is light
6 If we walk in darkness
7 If we walk in the light
8 If we say we have no sin
9 If we confess our sin God cleanses us of all unrighteousness
10 If we say we have never sinned.

The black commit sins but say they don't. They walk in darkness. Haven't you ever wondered by John separated 8 and 10 when they just about say the same thing? Style!

Interesting that you claim I don't understand 1 John 3:9 but fail to give your understanding. If you want to insert "practice" in that verse, that is not accurate. Commit means even once.

1 John 2:1-2
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV

Even in that above Scripture John is showing us what to do when we as believers do future sin.

1 John 5:14-15 shows there are two types of sins. To understand scripture you must read a whole epistle in one sitting and thereby know the context of every verse. You have taken verses 1 John 1:8 and 10 completely out of context. And 1 John 2:1 also, by not taking into consideration chapter 5. Notice that there is no repentance necessary for Jesus being our Advocate. So what type of sin of the two would require no repentance?

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's silly. Paul is talking about sins ALL believers committed PRIOR to their belief on Jesus Christ. Romans 3:22 says 'all' them that believe. That means us too.

These chapters are about the law.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

When Peter gets to the 9th verse, he is comparing the believer that does not have those previously mentioned things, and shows that one has forgotten that Jesus died for his "old sins". What? old sins? Are you confused with the words 'old', which points to the past? I hope you didn't make that doctrine up you claim in this post. I hope that was some idea the Grace movement taught you, which of course is totally deceiving of that 2 Peter 1:9 verse.

I don't know who you think you are responding to, because I have always said that it is only our past sins that are forgiven. I am not in the group that says that our past, present and future sins are forgiven - that is the heresy of the grace movement, WHICH I AM NOT A PART OF. Do you have that straight in your head now? I keep having to tell you over and over, and it never sinks in.

 

[Davy]

To be clear and to repeat myself. When we walk in the Spirit we are NOT IN THE FLESH. It is the opposite of Hyper-grace.

And now that Jesus has freed us from sin, so that we can be sinless, we can go on to perfection through these steps in 2 Peter 1:

Well, you just contradicted yourself. It's true when we walk in The Spirit we are overcoming our flesh lusts. But we can... slip up and still do sin, IF... we do not walk by The Spirit. I only know One Who was Perfect in doing that, and that is our Lord Jesus Christ. So once again, I refer to Scripture like Galatians 3:22. By you saying you are sinless, even while you are still living in a flesh body, you are saying you are already 'perfect', and that is to upset God's Truth, because it mean you are your 'own' Christ and without sin. Truth is, you STILL sin, and need to repent to our Lord Jesus when you do. And if... you aren't even aware you still sin by not even watching your actions and doing introspection, then you indeed are in danger of being joined with those of Matthew 7 that Jesus is going to turn away.

When we walk in The Spirit, then our 'spirit' is walking in Christ, not our flesh. Like Paul said in Romans 8:8, those that are in the flesh cannot please God. So when 'we' (our spirit) walk in The Spirit, it's still not our flesh that is walking. It's simply that our spirit is in control over our flesh, and thus we won't be doing any flesh sin (see Galatians 5 for the two compared lists of sins Paul gave).

 

[marks]

How do you commit willful sin in the first place? And you believe willful sin is already forgiven?

Aside from the accidental and ingnorant sins, I believe there there is no sin that you cannot not commit, that is, you are able in Christ to avoid ANY sin. That being the case, if we do sin, then that sin IS willfully committed. All sin is willful.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You're making excuses. That's wrong.

Matt 7:22
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord', have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
KJV

Those works in red are the 'works of righteousness'. To deny that is to be deceived.

I'm holding true what what the Bible says, not making any sorts of excuses, as you say.

The PEOPLE say, OH Look at all this great stuff I did!! All in your name!!! And Jesus say, go, your works are lawlessness. The people got it wrong.

Much love!

 

[aspen]

There is a different side of this I'm looking at, not so much that they are paid for, though the death that they required was given on my behalf.

More like . . .

I did not commit "original sin", that was Adam's doing.
Adam's sin brought the corruption of sin into humanity.
I, being part of humanity, do not escape that.
Being born corrupted by original sin, I inevitably add to Adam's sin my own sin.
And in this I am dead in sin.

There's a sense in which this isn't my fault. It wasn't anything I did that caused me to be born corrupted and dead sin. I never really had a chance!

God is Just, and has relieved the consequences of that which was not my fault. Through faith in Christ, of course!

Much love!

yeah

I tend to see it as a rescue mission by God rather than Him chasing us down like a bounty hunter.
He loves us. He is trying to heal us from a terminal illness, not condemn us.

It makes me think of agencies like Union Gospel Mission, which can seem like a place that demands religious compliance as a contingent to food and shelter. I know they have helped a lot of people, but we should be feeding and sheltering people simply because they are hungry and cold.

 

[marks]

Sorry, I don't believe in the perfection of the flesh period, not even at the resurrection (your words in bold above?). God's Word does not teach that.

1 Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Philippians 3
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Curious, how do you understand these parts I've bolded?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Aside from the accidental and ingnorant sins, I believe there there is no sin that you cannot not commit, that is, you are able in Christ to avoid ANY sin. That being the case, if we do sin, then that sin IS willfully committed. All sin is willful.

Much love!

No, there are sins that are NOT willful. Will means intention. Wits are by your mind. Trespasses are unintentional sins unwittingly committed. That is Scripture, not quotes of false teachers.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well, you just contradicted yourself.

How? Quote me.

 

[marks]

yeah

I tend to see it as a rescue mission by God rather than Him chasing us down like a bounty hunter.
He loves us. He is trying to heal us from a terminal illness, not condemn us.

It makes me think of agencies like Union Gospel Mission, which can seem like a place that demands religious compliance as a contingent to food and shelter. I know they have helped a lot of people, but we should be feeding and sheltering people simply because they are hungry and cold.

I heard someone say recently . . . Alstair Begg, I think, It's not that God demands we prove ourselves to Him, something like that, but rather God is searching for us as we are hiding from Him. I thought that was profound.

Much love!

 

[aspen]

I heard someone say recently . . . Alstair Begg, I think, It's not that God demands we prove ourselves to Him, something like that, but rather God is searching for us as we are hiding from Him. I thought that was profound.

Much love!

“Why are you hiding?”
“Because we are naked.”

Have you read The Hound of Heaven?

The Hound of Heaven

 

[marks]

No, there are sins that are NOT willful. Will means intention. Wits are by your mind. Trespasses are unintentional sins unwittingly committed. That is Scripture, not quotes of false teachers.

Except that what Scripture tells us very plainly that which is not of faith is sin, which means any and everything that is not specifically generated by my life in Christ, which means ANY deviation from His path of prepared works, is sin. Anything. Therefore there can be no distinction between sins. That which is not of faith is sin.

Much love!

 

[aspen]

Also, a great deal of sin is committed because people do not know what to do differently - they lack usable skills

 

[marks]

“Why are you hiding?”
“Because we are naked.”

Have you read The Hound of Heaven?

The Hound of Heaven

I haven't, no. Heard about it a lot though!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Except that what Scripture tells us very plainly that which is not of faith is sin, which means any and everything that is not specifically generated by my life in Christ, which means ANY deviation from His path of prepared works, is sin. Anything. Therefore there can be no distinction between sins. That which is not of faith is sin.

Much love!

John says there are sins unto death and sins not unto death. The Old Testament, our schoolmaster teaches which sins were not covered by any sacrifice and they were stoned to death, and the type of sin that could be covered by sacrifice.

Do you know the difference?

 

[marks]

John says there are sins unto death and sins not unto death. The Old Testament, our schoolmaster teaches which sins were not covered by any sacrifice and they were stoned to death, and the type of sin that could be covered by sacrifice.

Do you know the difference?

Yes, it includes working on the Sabbath, incidentally. Sin unto death. A sign given to Israel forever. Written in the Law.

Behold the Lamb of God which carries away the sin of the world. True as stated?

These sins that could be covered by sacrifice, these are all sins committed unknowingly?

Much love!

 

[Helen]

But the Bible says we are cleansed of our old sins 2 Peter 1:9. No where does an apostle teach a Christian will commit willful sins once cleansed of the desire to commit them. That means present and future willful sins are not cleansed. Read Hebrews 10:26-31. Of course, if someone claiming to be a Christian does not have the power of the Spirit and are not born again, then they will commit present and future sins and will be damned.

cc: @marks

Whatever...
Much joy may it bring you.
You have a very warped image of Father God and all the Jesus acomplished by His sacrifice .

Try looking out of the other end of your telescope.

 

[mjrhealth]

I heard someone say recently . . . Alstair Begg, I think, It's not that God demands we prove ourselves to Him, something like that, but rather God is searching for us as we are hiding from Him. I thought that was profound.

Much love!

Something to do with @bbyrd009 favorite quote" who told you, you where naked". I guess that comes when we discover how perfect He is and how imperfect we are so many run and hide from Him, as if they could.

 

[mjrhealth]

John says there are sins unto death and sins not unto death. The Old Testament, our schoolmaster teaches which sins were not covered by any sacrifice and they were stoned to death, and the type of sin that could be covered by sacrifice.

Do you know the difference?

If you sat and had a discussion with Christ and what is and isnt sin, you would soon find out how messed up you are. Jesus condemned sin to the flesh for a reason, it is satan that keeps Christians all concerned as that means they are walking in the flesh not faith.