Fake Christians

[JohnDB]

we need to expose ALL , not some , all sins .
YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart you SHALL in any WAY correct him and NOT ALLOW sin upon him .
WHERES THE LOVE IN SEEKER FRIENDLY . Its the love of the world , NOT OF GOD .
it allows folks to remain in sin
and at most it only rebukes those who correct sin and behaves as though the very words of GOD ARE WICKED AND EVIL .
we got problems friend .

I know what sin is. I know the ones I've committed.
However, I'm not law enforcement for God. Not my job. In fact Jesus gave very specific warnings about pointing out the sins of others. (Don't do it)

So long as the Gaines know and don't commit the sin of homosexuality or endorse it, I don't see the problem.

Are you suggesting that we evaluate EVERY person's salvation before we do business with them?

 

[Muna]

I agree that we need to show God's love for sinners. I would also say that it is wrong to do as some do, and pick out certain sins, like same sex relationships, as being more sinful than other sins. We read in Romans that the wages of sin is death, not that the wages of certain sins is death. We shouldn't finger-point, because we are all sinners. Praise God, if we know Jesus Christ to be our Saviour, we are saved sinners.

There is also a difference too between the world (and judging them that are without) and the brethren (and judging them that are within)

Fot example, Paul says

1Cr 5:11
[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

These are who we are not to company with as believers (which may call themselves a brother)

On a side note, even railers actually make that list, ever notice that? Which is basically those who engage in abusive or scornful language, characterized by endless harsh criticism and/or insults of others. Those who heap abuse upon others, and this can even be observed on most the Christian forums and in 1 Cr 5:11 Paul tells us this behavior is incompatible within the company of the brethren, and tells us not to associate with such individuals.

Paul even tells us in1 Cr 6:10 that railers (written as revilers there, but is the same thing) which are included among those who will not inherit the kingdom of God, and so highlights the spiritual consequences of such behavior. And among all the things he listed there also Paul ads, " And such were some of you: but ye are washed" but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When Paul says, "And such were some of you: but ye are washed" Peter also speaks of the sow that was washed returning to her wallowing in the mire

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Muna]

Here it says,

John 18:22 And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so?

John 18:23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

And here

James 5:6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I wonder if this would fit

Deut 18:3 And this shall be the priest's due from the people, from them that offer a sacrifice, whether it be ox or sheep; and they shall give unto the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the maw.

 

[Muna]

This s pretty cool

Deut 23:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

1 Cr 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes (( save one )) .

 

[JohnDB]

There is also a difference too between the world (and judging them that are without) and the brethren (and judging them that are within)

Fot example, Paul says

1Cr 5:11
[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

These are who we are not to company with as believers (which may call themselves a brother)

On a side note, even railers actually make that list, ever notice that? Which is basically those who engage in abusive or scornful language, characterized by endless harsh criticism and/or insults of others. Those who heap abuse upon others, and this can even be observed on most the Christian forums and in 1 Cr 5:11 Paul tells us this behavior is incompatible within the company of the brethren, and tells us not to associate with such individuals.

Paul even tells us in1 Cr 6:10 that railers (written as revilers there, but is the same thing) which are included among those who will not inherit the kingdom of God, and so highlights the spiritual consequences of such behavior. And among all the things he listed there also Paul ads, " And such were some of you: but ye are washed" but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When Paul says, "And such were some of you: but ye are washed" Peter also speaks of the sow that was washed returning to her wallowing in the mire

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

So....
Is there no difference between having a business contract with someone and being their friend?

Most people have jobs that are owned and operated by unbelievers. Are you suggesting that everyone needs to quit their jobs?
What about pensioners? Those on Government retirement or benefits? Should they stop receiving that as well? There is no Christian Government on the planet left for us to live under.

What is the line if our employment is now subject to condemnation?

That's exactly what all this condemnation of the Gaines is equivalent to. Making Christians a mockery for being overly judgemental.

Of course homosexuality is a sin. Of course judgementalism is just as bad a sin as homosexuality. Both are just as difficult to repent of.

 

[Muna]

So....
Is there no difference between having a business contract with someone and being their friend?

Most people have jobs that are owned and operated by unbelievers. Are you suggesting that everyone needs to quit their jobs?
What about pensioners? Those on Government retirement or benefits? Should they stop receiving that as well? There is no Christian Government on the planet left for us to live under.

What is the line if our employment is now subject to condemnation?

That's exactly what all this condemnation of the Gaines is equivalent to. Making Christians a mockery for being overly judgemental.

Of course homosexuality is a sin. Of course judgementalism is just as bad a sin as homosexuality. Both are just as difficult to repent of.

It's in the verse, see?

1Cr 5:11
[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

 

[Muna]

Separate the above verses 1 Cr 5:11-10

And to the BUT NOW

1 Cr 5:11
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[nedsk]

Just because we have all sinned in the past does not mean we should not warn sexual perverts that they are on the highway to hell and they need to repent and live for Jesus







And God's Love speaks the Truth (God's Word) which tells up sexual perversion is a sin that leads people to hell.

Sadly some among us claim to be Christians but refuse to speak Truth (God's Word) and are happy to let people go to hell without trying to help them repent and come to the Lord. These are fake christians, tares, servants of the devil.







Exactly, which is why they are fake christians, tares, servants of the devil.







So in your view Christians should be like Chip and Joanna Gaines and be sin friendly, right?

You STILL sin

 

[Kokyu]

Former HGTV stars Chip and Joanna Gaines are facing backlash for their new reality show which features a same-sex couple.

They claim to be Christians, but "Back to the Frontier," is a show about three American families who attempt to survive as 1880s homesteaders, debuted on HBO Max on July 10. The Gaines are executive producers of the Magnolia Network series, the cable network they co-founded with Warner Bros. Discovery, which was promoted as featuring "family-friendly unscripted programming."

After clips of the show were shared on social media, the Gaines' were criticized by conservative Christian pastors, organizations and media commentators over the show casting two Texas dads and their 10-year-old twin sons, who were born via a surrogate.
Critics claimed the Gaines were promoting an anti-biblical lifestyle while they'd built a media empire professing their Christian faith.

Franklin Graham, president of Samaritan's Purse and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, called the casting decision "very disappointing."

"Very disappointing" is rather an understatement. For at least thirty years now, North American culture has worked openly to normalize homosexuality. It's a testament to the deep unnaturalness of homosexual conduct that the push to normalize it continues. I doubt that the time will come when this perversion of sexuality ever gains wide and persistent acceptance within the mostly heterosexual human population.

The Satan-ruled Hollywood entertainment culture, however, is determined to foist this sin upon those imbibing its "products." Being an important arm of the devil's world-system to eternally destroy as many people as possible, Hollywood and all its affiliated producers of "entertainment" are fiercely committed to promoting what is profoundly morally aberrant and destructive - even when so-called "Christians" are scripting the product. Christians, then, ought to regard the claims of a genuine faith in Christ made by any agent of the entertainment industry with deep skepticism. It's a merchandising ploy, more often than not, and a way to confuse and corrupt already-compromised, ignorant Christians who are in the habit of giving out-sized attention to the words and actions of godless, secular musicians, actors, athletes and t.v./internet personalities.

Being avid consumers of Hollywood's wretched bile, many Christians have drunk deeply of Hollywood's demonic "Don't judge me, love me" philosophy and so, they rail at any fellow Christian who objects to Hollywood's promotion of evil and snarl at any disciple of Jesus who warns of the eternally-damning penalty of living in what God has called an abomination. These soft-on-sin "Christians" actually believe they're taking the "high road" in refusing to call sin what it is, they think they're demonstrating "compassion" and "love" toward those who are so far gone into wickedness that they define themselves by it.

But the Christian's "tenderness" and "acceptance" of the wickedness of the lost is actually profoundly evil. The wickedness of the lost will consign them to an eternity in hell, alone forever in the darkness and torment of Gehenna, separate from God and all others for uncountable eons of time. What "love" is there, then, that a Christian expresses to the lost when the Christian accommodates their cherished sins? The evil thinking and conduct of the lost will bring them to eternal ruin in hell and obscuring this truth from the lost under a veneer of "niceness" is viciously cruel!

Anyway, as so many false converts within the entertainment industry have already demonstrated, merely claiming the title of "Christian" and offering a few Christian-sounding slogans/catch-phrases by no means proves one is truly a born-again, Spirit-indwelt child of God. Only the progressively-revealed life and work of the Holy Spirit properly establishes that a person is truly in the faith. Horribly, few Christians know in what ways the Bible says his life and work testify to his presence within a person. And so, anyone from the demonic entertainment industry claiming the title of "Christian" is eagerly and uncritically embraced by Christians as a fellow child of God - even when they promote grievous perversion in their entertainment products. How foolish modern North American Christians have become...

 

[Kokyu]

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:24-28
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Jude 1:7, 10
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire...
10 ...whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

 

[bdavidc]

The Gaines are not theologians or Christian leaders of any sort....they have said that part repeatedly.
They are house remodelers and product sellers....promoting modern farmhouse interior designs. (Shiplap inside)

IOW they do business with sinners.
As a chef, electrician, truck driver, and salesman I worked next to and with sinners all the time. Had to if I wanted a career. So do the Gaines. I don't see them promoting homosexuality....just interior design and their product lines.

Why is everyone being so hard on them?

I don't get the issue. Homosexuals have money like everyone else. And some homosexuals don't have interior design skills or clothing fashion sense. They need professional help.

How we treat others (including sinners) is important. This couple is treating everyone fairly and equally that happens to like modern farmhouse interior finishes. Even if they have no religious affiliation.

There are times I've had to work for or with people I really had a strong distaste for, some I couldn't stand and some I believed that the world would be better off if they died. But I wasn't there to preach at them or to them. I was there to work. And I did just that.

However, my being able to work next to and for these people provided opportunities to witness and counsel many others....and because I lived a lifestyle that allows me to work next to and for these people those others listened carefully to every word I said...otherwise they would have rejected everything i had to say about God out of hand.

My bakery sold cakes, pies, tarts, cookies, eclairs and etc to thin and fat people, straight and homosexuals alike. Was I wrong?

You are absolutely right in that we all work with unsaved people. I worked with men and women from all sorts of backgrounds, beliefs, and lifestyles before I retired. Some of them I thought were great people…and I still do. It’s not that I didn’t like them. I liked them a lot. Cared about them, in fact. But here is the thing. I don’t want any of them to miss heaven and spend eternity in regret. This is not an issue of being judgmental, but one of love.

We all work among sinners because we live in a fallen world. We have to get past that. Jesus did it. I think the issue comes in where someone is claiming the name of Christ, getting a platform and a pulpit, and using that to affirm or celebrate something that is clearly defined as sin in God’s Word.

Romans 1:32 isn’t talking about doing the sin. It’s talking about approving of those who do the sin. And Ephesians 5: 11 says, “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Which does not mean to be hateful or unkind but it does mean to stand for truth at a time where compromise is being paraded as love.

Chip and Joanna are in the spotlight. They profess faith and talk about their faith often. It’s a natural progression for people to look to them as if they represent Christianity. So when they stand in public affirmation with messages and movements that are the exact opposite of Scripture, especially with regard to homosexuality, it is not only confusing, it is dangerous. It is putting out a signal that God has changed His mind. Or that biblical truth is up for negotiation.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Working with, serving, or being nice to people from all walks of life is one thing. That is part of being a light in the world. But when a Christian uses their platform and voice to muddy the waters between righteousness and sin, that’s no longer kindness, that’s compromise. And compromise doesn’t lead anyone to salvation. It only makes it easier for them to stay in deception.

Which brings me back to what I said before. It’s not unkind. It’s not harsh. It’s the truth. Love speaks truth. And if we really love people, and I mean really love them. The people we work with, the people we admire, the people we even call friends. We have to care more about their eternity than their approval.

You said, “My bakery sold cakes, pies, tarts, cookies, eclairs and etc to thin and fat people, straight and homosexuals alike. Was I wrong?”

I personally don’t think you where wrong at all.

 

[JohnDB]

You are absolutely right in that we all work with unsaved people. I worked with men and women from all sorts of backgrounds, beliefs, and lifestyles before I retired. Some of them I thought were great people…and I still do. It’s not that I didn’t like them. I liked them a lot. Cared about them, in fact. But here is the thing. I don’t want any of them to miss heaven and spend eternity in regret. This is not an issue of being judgmental, but one of love.

We all work among sinners because we live in a fallen world. We have to get past that. Jesus did it. I think the issue comes in where someone is claiming the name of Christ, getting a platform and a pulpit, and using that to affirm or celebrate something that is clearly defined as sin in God’s Word.

Romans 1:32 isn’t talking about doing the sin. It’s talking about approving of those who do the sin. And Ephesians 5: 11 says, “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Which does not mean to be hateful or unkind but it does mean to stand for truth at a time where compromise is being paraded as love.

Chip and Joanna are in the spotlight. They profess faith and talk about their faith often. It’s a natural progression for people to look to them as if they represent Christianity. So when they stand in public affirmation with messages and movements that are the exact opposite of Scripture, especially with regard to homosexuality, it is not only confusing, it is dangerous. It is putting out a signal that God has changed His mind. Or that biblical truth is up for negotiation.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Working with, serving, or being nice to people from all walks of life is one thing. That is part of being a light in the world. But when a Christian uses their platform and voice to muddy the waters between righteousness and sin, that’s no longer kindness, that’s compromise. And compromise doesn’t lead anyone to salvation. It only makes it easier for them to stay in deception.

Which brings me back to what I said before. It’s not unkind. It’s not harsh. It’s the truth. Love speaks truth. And if we really love people, and I mean really love them. The people we work with, the people we admire, the people we even call friends. We have to care more about their eternity than their approval.

You said, “My bakery sold cakes, pies, tarts, cookies, eclairs and etc to thin and fat people, straight and homosexuals alike. Was I wrong?”

I personally don’t think you where wrong at all.

HBO signed the Gaines up for a contract to do their shoe for them. It included a substantial pay raise for them and reduced workload at the same time.

HBO chose the clients. And those clients still have to pay Chip and Joanna. (A LOT). So does HBO. (That's television).

So I'm not upset with the Gaines. HBO is to blame. The like throwing their LGBTQ message everywhere and into everything.

 

[Muna]

This is just misapplying scripture all together.

Does the Spirit tell you to hate people? Or do you use the scripture in order to justify ones hate for others?

That is my question ultimately.

Where is his misapplication and where is the hate in those verses?

 

[Kokyu]

This is just misapplying scripture all together.

Does the Spirit tell you to hate people? Or do you use the scripture in order to justify ones hate for others?

That is my question ultimately.

I didn't make any application of the Scripture I posted. I just gave the verses/passages and let them speak for themselves.

Why does the Scripture I posted concerning homosexuality prompt your questions about the Holy Spirit and hating others? Is God hateful to forbid perverted sex? Whose view of sin do you think you ought to adopt: God's or the World's?

 

[Muna]

I didn't make any application of the Scripture I posted. I just gave the verses/passages and let them speak for themselves.

That's the way to do it.

 

[Muna]

@Kokyu,


I find it difficult to understand how people approach judgment. It’s especially perplexing when someone, who undoubtedly has their own struggles and shortcomings, feels justified in evaluating another person’s life. We're all navigating our own paths—and I believe humility, not judgment, should lead the way.

Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector​

Luke 18:9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: 10 “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer[a]: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! 12 I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


You're absolutely free to share your thoughts, and I appreciate the dialogue. I'd simply like to offer one of Jesus' parables for reflection—if you're open to exploring it.

How does the verses posted here contradict or make void the other verses he posted?

That would just be pitting the scripture against itself

 

[amigo de christo]

Separate the above verses 1 Cr 5:11-10

And to the BUT NOW

1 Cr 5:11
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Then would anyone please tell me why on earth
i see full grown women married to women and men married to men
SITTING IN THE CHURCHES and aint a bit of it being corrected , rather its being embraced .
As with any other sin . Why come i aint seeing correction .
And why come when the few who do try and correct the sin and error within the church ,
THEY the ones cast out as haters , as they even toss the words OF GOD out too . seeing the very Words
of GOD as hate speech . OH do we ever have some serious wicked things going on withn the realm
of christendom , but because they all call it love and loving , many sure seem to buy into it .
Not this sheep , nor any other sheep . ITS KEY RECTION , or CORRETION TIME in the house .

 

[amigo de christo]

Where is his misapplication and where is the hate in those verses?

Victim card . that is all this is my friend . this sheep dont buy it either .

 

[amigo de christo]

How does the verses posted here contradict or make void the other verses he posted?

That would just be pitting the scripture against itself

which is always what they do . What very wee little scrips they do know
they take out and twist to support something commonly known as a lie .
Seeing they cannot resist the words of truth
they play the only card they know , victim , oh thats hate . that is judging
But they darn sure cannot bring scrips and what little they do , THEY TWIST
and do so , as peter wrote , unto their own destruction .
They cannot overcome the TRUTH
they cannot overcome the words of truth
SO , roll over play victim and make it all about feelings and emotions
and The one bringing the truth seem as the oppressor and hater .
That is HOW they do and what they do . And that is Exactly HOW evil takes over socities and places .
SILENCE the lips of truth by making the speaker out to be the hater and the oppresser .
Dont work on the sheep though . cause frankly i aint in it to be popular and well loved by the world .
TO GOD , TO CHRIST BE THE GLORY and all honor , no matter the cost to me
and may souls hear and repent . That is all that matters to me .

 

[Behold]

i see full grown women married to women and men married to men
SITTING IN THE CHURCHES and aint a bit of it being corrected , rather its being embraced .