False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Davy]

Actually I think it's pretty easy to see who is getting bothered in this conversation.

Much love!

Yeah, it sure is, which is why YOU... keep skirting the Truth of the Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture where Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER... THE TRIBULATION.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus tells his apostles to watch and wait, its better to be up an awake - fully aware of his coming, and not to sleep on it or to become lazy saying he is not coming.

People tend to misapporiate scriptures and its unfortunate.

The reason main deals with the heart.

And its okay. Let people believe how they will and love them.

 

[MatthewG]

People will want and desire to fight to keep their beliefs true, you gotta leave them be, otherwise you are just sinning by quarreling.

 

[Davy]

You jumped in on something. Put up or shut up, I think is what they say.

Much love!

You remind me of an 'INFINITE LOOP' in software programing. It's a programing mistake, in your case, it means talking in a continuous circle and not saying anything, like you are doing.

 

[Davy]

Many Churches have picked up the false Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture", and give the people the idea that if you are a real Christian you will be caught up in the secret rapture to be with Christ. To arrive at this the Scripture has to be twisted and taken out of context.
Here are some of the texts that have been quoted as referring to the rapture:-

So I wonder if Nicolas Cage is going to be raptured while on an airplane, like the stupid movie?

 

[marks]

You remind me of an 'INFINITE LOOP' in software programing. It's a programing mistake, in your case, it means talking in a continuous circle and not saying anything, like you are doing.

No, it means you won't commit yourself to a very simple matter concerning a couple of passages of Scripture. Why not? I can only guess.

It's where this started. It's like, you want to walk with me down this path, but not THIS path. What it means is that I'm holding to my course, that this is the question I've posted, and if you want to engage, answer the question.

Maybe you are used to others who will allow themselves to become distracted. I've been on these forums a long time, and I know how to hold to the topic. That's my topic from my post. My question about these passages.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

No, it means you won't commit yourself to a very simple matter concerning a couple of passages of Scripture. Why not? I can only guess.

It's where this started. It's like, you want to walk with me down this path, but not THIS path. What it means is that I'm holding to my course, that this is the question I've posted, and if you want to engage, answer the question.

Maybe you are used to others who will allow themselves to become distracted. I've been on these forums a long time, and I know how to hold to the topic. That's my topic. My question about these passages.

Much love!

Like I said, which is that Jesus said, His coming and gathering of the saints before the tribulation, or after the tribulation... . Show me some of that "Much love" and answer my question...

Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

 

[MatthewG]

Like I said, which is that Jesus said, His coming and gathering of the saints before the tribulation, or after the tribulation... . Show me some of that "Much love" and answer my question...

Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Boy thats hard to argue with.

 

[marks]

Like I said, which is that Jesus said, His coming and gathering of the saints before the tribulation, or after the tribulation... . Show me some of that "Much love" and answer my question...

Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Is it because you are concerned about the implications of either way you answer? I've found this to be like Jesus' "John the Baptist" question. Those who have the right answer aren't concerned, they can just answer. Those who don't have the right answer tend to avoid this question like the plague.

I ask this to everyone who claims to believe post trib rapture timing. Guess how many reply? When I ask pre-tribbers, there seems to be no issue. I wonder why that is?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Is it because you are concerned about the implications of either way you answer? I've found this to be like Jesus' "John the Baptist" question. Those who have the right answer aren't concerned, they can just answer. Those who don't have the right answer tend to avoid this question like the plague.

I ask this to everyone who claims to believe post trib rapture timing. Guess how many reply? When I ask pre-tribbers, there seems to be no issue. I wonder why that is?

Much love!

Like I said, which is that Jesus said, His coming and gathering of the saints before the tribulation, or after the tribulation... . Show me some of that "Much love" and answer my question...

Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

 

[marks]

Matt 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Do you read and interpret this passage above the same as you do the following?

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Do you see both of these as narrative prophecy, foretelling things that will happen as portrayed?

That's where we started. If you want to do this, then do it. It's a simple question, which you replied to, but did not respond to. It looks like you never will, and I can only wonder why that would be, but generally speaking, if someone who believes as you do realizes the implications of whichever answer they give, then they may want to just avoid it, as you seem to be doing.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

all the Gospel narratives where complied and given to the people in Israel, i believe around 60Ad.

How would they take it @marks?

I get you may believe you are part of the group that may get to see Jesus come back in the clouds, and maybe youll see it and maybe ill be wrong and be left behind, but… I just cant believe it personally being for today.

Sorry, and if you think so. By all means… believe.

To fight over these things is stupid, and ignorant.

 

[Davy]

Do you read and interpret this passage above the same as you do the following?

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Do you see both of these as narrative prophecy, foretelling things that will happen as portrayed?

That's where we started. If you want to do this, then do it. It's a simple question, which you replied to, but did not respond to. It looks like you never will, and I can only wonder why that would be, but generally speaking, if someone who believes as you do realizes the implications of whichever answer they give, then they may want to just avoid it, as you seem to be doing.

Much love!

Like I said, which is that Jesus said, His coming and gathering of the saints before the tribulation, or after the tribulation... . Show me some of that "Much love" and answer my question...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

 

[marks]

I get you may believe you are part of the group that may get to see Jesus come back in the clouds,

That's not how I think about this, I'm really just a student of the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

To fight over these things is stupid, and ignorant.

So now the declaring... of the time when Lord JESUS HIMSELF told us when He comes to gather His faithful is now "stupid, and ignorant"?

My Heavenly Father and His Son can SEE how those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory are DENYING HIS WORD OF TRUTH here. Don't think for a minute He is not aware of the rejection going on by those deceived on man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory.

 

[07-07-07]

No it is not a valid theory. It's actually a joke on those deceived who buy into it. Do you really think Lord Jesus is going to be pleased with you when He finds out you'd rather listen to men's false doctrines instead of His Word?

You need to face what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 about His future coming to gather His saints AFTER THE TRIBULATION. It may hurt a little today to admit to what He said there for when He comes to gather His faithful, but it will hurt a whole lot more when He does come on the LAST DAY like He showed, and finds you have not waited for Him.

I like your passion, and only time will tell if the Rapture is a "joke" as you say. I tend to see Scripture through dispensations, and this may be stumbling block for you. We are living in the Church age, a time when the Jews as a whole reject Messiah Jesus. It's the Gentiles who predominately accept Him. Once this is understood, then the Rapture becomes more clear.

 

[MatthewG]

So now the declaring... of the time when Lord JESUS HIMSELF told us when He comes to gather His faithful is now "stupid, and ignorant"?

My Heavenly Father and His Son can SEE how those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory are DENYING HIS WORD OF TRUTH here. Don't think for a minute He is not aware of the rejection going on by those deceived on man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory.

Fighting is stupid, and ignorant. Dont you understand? You can share but you have to understand. No one has to believe you either.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Rapture haters=you will be left behind===Jesus will catch up (rapture) THOSE LOOKING FOR HIM.

 

[ewq1938]

Rapture haters=you will be left behind===Jesus will catch up (rapture) THOSE LOOKING FOR HIM.

Actually it's more accurate that apostasia lovers will be the ones left behind.

 

[David in NJ]

The Rapture is a theory based on the mystery of the Scriptures, and it's a very valid theory. It makes sense in that the Church is under grace during the current Church age and will be caught up before God turns His attention back to Israel for their final week (seven years) of punishment. Will it hold to be true? Only time will tell.

Jewish dispensation (Spring) ==> Gentile dispensation (Summer) ==> One more week of Jewish dispensation (Fall) ==> Return of Messiah Jesus to execute the winepress of the fierceness of God's wrath (Winter) ==> Millennial Kingdom (New Age)

Was the Gentile Church on earth when Jesus fulfilled the first 4 of the 7 Jewish feasts of the Lord? No (The Gentile Church really began when the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius, his friends and family). Jesus fulfilled all the spring feasts, i.e., the Feast of Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Firstfruits, the Feast of the Harvest (Pentecost). There are 3 more feasts to be fulfilled, which are all in the fall, i.e., the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. It seems consistently logical that Jesus will fulfill them too. In God's seasonal calendar, the Gentile Church is in the summer season, and all the end-time signs indicate that we are at the end of the summer season. Fall is soon to begin. Will the Gentile Church be here on earth when Jesus begins to fulfill the last 3 Jewish feasts, beginning with the feast of Trumpets?

1 Thessalonians 4
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

pre-trib (unscriptural) human intellect religious mish-mash thinking = "It makes sense in that the Church is under grace during the current Church age and will be caught up before God turns His attention back to Israel for their final week (seven years) of punishment."

Religion(pre-trib) always makes 'sense' to the worshipper of such = just ask a catholic about their idols......same application


Eternal Food for thought = Have you ever considered why there cannot be found in Scripture, even one pre-trib rapture declaration?