False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[TribulationSigns]

Just that statement you say that Satan is already in control of this world shows you've moved off the subject about the "false prophet". But yeah, I already well know that God has given Satan power in this present world, even as Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of this world and offered them to Him per Luke 4.

Indeed. You need to think carefully. Christ defeated Satan at the Cross and cast him into the bottomless pit so that he could be restrained while Christ built the church. So the church was safe from Satan's reach until all Elect are secured. THEN Christ allowed Satan to come into His Church with his false prophets and christs (FALSE PROPHET) for the purpose of deceiving the rebellion-professed Christians - and the Elect if that is possible! NOT the world because it is already under Satan's control.
The problem is that you think that the false prophet is out there to deceive the "world" or "nations" when in fact he is only found in God's New Testament congregation deceiving people with lying signs and wonders on the behalf of the first beast (which is the world). Geez.

My response to you was against... you're calling the 'false prophet' being deceived Christians, which is a completely ignorant idea!

Not really!

You said:
"The false prophet is the beast - the body of professed Christians who have performed with lying signs and wonders...."

No it isn't, was my response to that! What a loony idea that is! That idea is nowhere close to the simplicity of the written Bible Scripture about the "false prophet" that is going to be the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah.

NOWHERE did Jesus or His Apostles ever show that deceived Christian represent the "false prophet"! That's just stupid.

Anyone who does not understand God's definition of the beast and the false prophet is spiritually stupid... or spiritually blinded. The false prophet (the beast with two horns like a lamb) is not going to be a so-called antichrist-false-messiah. Again, the beast is a BODY made up of many false prophets and christs. He is only found in God's congregation! That is how God see him.

No, I'm not joking, the danger of one's soul being cast into the 'abyss' of hell where Satan's pit prison is, is not something to joke about. But that's what YOU... are doing, joking about a simple Biblical matter that you should... easily already know about. So your stupid question to me is on par with a little child that asks why they have feet!

Look up the Hebrew and Greek for the word "hell", Bible 101 stuff. Want a little more detail about that place, see what Jesus taught about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16. And notice that place is associated with a 'pit' which also is used as an idea about a grave in the earth, even sheol.

LOL! You still have not offer a chapter and verse to show that God has defined the Earth as bottomless pit. Do you realize that the bottomless pit is not actually a place that can hold spirits since he still works through wicked people. See, the bottomless pit is a meterphor that his power has been restrained for the sake of the Elect. So once God has secured all of His elect into salvation. There will be no more salvation which is why God has removed his restrained hand so that the beast/false prophet can deceive those people WITHIN the congregation who have not yet sealed by God (You need to read Revelation 9 over and over to understand this). Otherwise, there is nothing more I can do since you area blind with carnal doctrines.

Dang! didn't know I was going to have to try and spoon feed you. Invest in a good Bible Dictionary, like the Smith's... or Nelsons...

LOL. The Holy Spirit has fed me. Thank you.

PIT
A deep hole in the ground, either natural (Gen 14:10) or man-made (Gen 37:20). This word translates 12 Hebrew words in the Old Testament and two Greek words in the New Testament. The Hebrew word used most often denotes a cistern in which rainwater was collected (Lev 11:36).

Another Hebrew word referred to a pit sometimes used to trap animals or people (Ezek 19:4,8). These verses reflect this practice, either literally describing a snare or figuratively describing temptation (Ps 35:7).

The word pit is used in a theological way in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. As a deep underground place, "the Pit" became synonymous for SHEOL, the abode of the dead, the netherworld of departed spirits (Job 33:18,24; Ps 30:3; Isa 14:15).

In the New Testament, the phrase the bottomless pit refers to the abode of the demons. Satan will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit (Rev 20:2-3). Then he will be released from this pit or prison after a thousand years of captivity (Rev 20:4-7).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

Huh uh. That does not prove that Earth is a bottomless pit itself. Sorry, you are still incorrect with your speculation about bottomless pit as Earth.

I very well DO... get what God's Word is teaching about the Bible prophecies for the end of this world. That because I stay... in His Word AS WRITTEN, and don't treat it like man's philosophy, which appears to be what you're trying to do, just like the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt which was subjected to many pagan Gnostic false doctrines.

Blah blah blah...

Your problem is that you've been listening to a bunch a charlatans that teach from 'another spirit' instead of staying in God's Word as written.

Funny. Charlatans? Who? I read the Bible itself with Holy Spirit. Your accusation is not founded on facts.

That's why even a simple reading of Bible Scripture upsets your mind! And that's a sign of the working of 'another spirit' that is deceiving you.

Humm. says someone who can't offer Scripture to support "Earth = bottomless pit" theory. Okay whatever you say.

The "false prophet" is a ROLE that Satan as the Antichrist is coming to play when he loses the war in Heaven with Archangel Michael per Revelation 12:7-14.

A false prophet is a role? Are you saying that Satan lost a physical war in heaven where God is? Who is archangel Michael exactly?

The serious Bible student who stays with God's Word as written should easily understand this because per Rev.16:13-14 the "false prophet" is shown working the "miracles" that the 2nd beast (Antichrist), the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 does, to deceive with...

I bet you do not even know what miracles that False prophet performs and the mark of the beast, and the image to begin with.

Rev 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
KJV

Do you know what the mouth signifies?

Do you know what the frogs represent in Scripture?

Who are the kings of the earth exactly?

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

The beast = body of unsaved people of the world.
The false prophet = body of false prophets, christs, and all unsaved professed Christians of God's congregation apart from the world.

Both will cast into lake of fire. All unsaved people! Not one antichrist. Not one false prophet. Selah!

That 'another spirit' in you won't let you READ those simple parts of the above Scripture in red, can it? You had best cast those evil spirits away from you and pray for Lord Jesus Christ to open you eyes, and remove your deception!

Actually, I am turning this table back to you.

 

[The Light]

It says no such thing. The rapture is post trib and Rev is not written in chronological order.

There is a post trib rapture..........after the pretrib rapture. The 144,000 are first fruits of this rapture. But you think post trib is post wrath. Completely different. The Lord comes at the end of the tribulation to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the wrath of God begins. The Lord returns at the end of wrath...........to set up His kingdom.

Here is the great multitude in heaven at the marriage supper, AFTER the gathering from heaven and earth, and BEFORE the wrath of God.

Rev 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

[The Light]

There's no way to tell what you are trying... to quote. If you are going to quote people, include at least a complete 'phrase', in quotation marks, or in the subdued box.

I was not trying to quote. I was making a statement, that you are afraid. You blocked me in another thread after you made false statements about the truth of the pre tribulation rapture.

That statement you make, bearing false witness against me by falsely claiming I'm afraid of the Truth, is simply a huge show of your Biblical illiteracy and stupidity. Mocking is NOT how you conduct a valid scholarly debate.

Happy to debate you with scripture. I'm reading some of your other posts, so to make the statement above is very democratic.

And because you resort to MOCKING, and fail to provide any Bible Scripture to backup your ideas, that suggests that you cannot understand what God's Word says, so you have to default to men's doctrines from charlatans that they themselves only act and claim like they know the Truth, when they don't.

As I said...........you blocked me commenting in that thread. I'm actually quite surprised you are commenting because you already know what is going to happen. I'm going to produce scripture that will prove you wrong and then.......................

And when you do hear the REAL TRUTH of God's written Word from someone like me who stays in God's Word as written, it upsets YOUR little false apple cart that you have created by allowing Satan's host to DECEIVE you!

Quit beating around the bush. Produce any scripture that you think proves there is no pre trib rapture. Then don't block me from commenting with the truth.

 

[The Light]

There's that stupidity of mocking again, showing a brain that just cannot quite come to reading comprehension of Bible Scripture as written. You may as well just draw straws as to what a Bible verse might mean.

As I said, I'm reading some of your other posts to different people. Do you really want to play that card?

Thankfully, IF... you continue in that FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE FROM MEN, and fly away to the Antichrist like that doctrine is designed to make you do, then those us in Christ Jesus that HEED His Word as written won't have put up with those like you in His Kingdom, look where you likely will be cast to because you did not... listen to Him and thus were deceived...

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

Matt 22:12-13
12 And he saith unto him, "Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment?" And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
KJV

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

To LOVE and PUSH that FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY from Satan's host means to LOVE A LIE. Thus your soul is in danger.

I could produce a plethora of scriptural statements like this. What have you proved? I see nothing about disproving the truth of the rapture of the Church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It says why right in Daniel 9.

He decreed what the seventy weeks would accomplish. Absolutely! but not why 70 weeks instead of 10 or 200 or 1000.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you put walls around gaza and the west bank, you would be walling IN millions of Palestinians. Not much sense in that.

Plenty of sense in that! The Palestinians and their varied govts. and org. all have in their charters the genocide of Jews and removing them all from the land of Israel!

They also launch terrorist attacks, have built tunnels and launched tens of thousands of rockets from both Gaza and the West Bank. Since Israel built a borsder wall, terrorist attacks have dropped significantly until Oct. 7.

Babylon and the land of the Chaldean will not be dwelt in, so they will not be taking part in Gog-Magog which happens after the 1000 years
Isaiah 13
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

Most likely not, but whatever nations are on the earth, those under 100 years old will participate.

 

[The Light]

Plenty of sense in that! The Palestinians and their varied govts. and org. all have in their charters the genocide of Jews and removing them all from the land of Israel!

They also launch terrorist attacks, have built tunnels and launched tens of thousands of rockets from both Gaza and the West Bank. Since Israel built a borsder wall, terrorist attacks have dropped significantly until Oct. 7.

Let me repeat. When the enemy is already in the land, walls do nothing. Walls are to keep the enemy out of the land.

 

[MA2444]

He decreed what the seventy weeks would accomplish. Absolutely! but not why 70 weeks instead of 10 or 200 or 1000.

I asked that question too and I figured that was just how angry God was at them.

 

[Taken]

So don't be deceived by the false doctrine of the Secret Rapture.The Second Coming will be seen by everyone so its kind of hard to have a "Secret Rapture" with everyone watching. So how will Christ return and how will the Second Coming unfold, well lets start at how he ascended:

Be cautious dispelling something you do not believe, by saying what you think others believe….

The Rapture…Applies EXCLUSIVELY to Christ’s Church Members.

So first you need to know, WHO ARE “EXCLUSIVELY” Christ’s Church Members…
AND WHY are they “EXCLUSIVELY” Christ’s Church Members…AND WHY is there an “EXCLUSIVE” CALLING made unto THEM.

Why do YOU claim it is “SECRET”?
SECRET to WHOM?
It is NOT a SECRET, to Christ’s Church Members.

If you are NOT a member of any ORGANIZATION…why would you EXPECT what applies to it’s members, to ALSO apply to those who are NOT members, that THEY should be informed of it’s expectations ?

First of all…It is the Lord, called by His TITLE…Lord, (not Jesus, not Christ, not Son of God, not Son of man) that Authorizes His Servant Angel to SUMMON Christ’s Church Members, with an OFTEN USED throughout Scripture means of calling ATTENTION to a Group…ie A TRUMPET.

It is the Lord, called by His TITLE … Lord, (not Jesus, not Christ, not Son of God, not Son of man) WHO Descends FROM Heaven to the CLOUDS, TO meet IN THE AIR, Members of Christ’ Church.

There the Church Members…
IN their risen up NEW bodies…
WITH their restored saved souls in their NEW bodies…
WITH their quickened spirit, born of God Seed in their NEW bodies…
SEE for the first time, face to face THEIR Lord, “AS He Is”…Spirit.

What DOES THAT ^ have to do with …
The Son OF MAN, “returning to Earth”?
IS the AIR…the Earth?
ARE the CLOUDS…the Earth?

While the Church Members ARE with their Lord IN THE AIR…

Tribulations…are prepared to be SENT DOWN FROM Heaven…
Tribulations, of. Earthquakes, Famines, Biting insects, Fires, Wars, Abominations, Chaos,
WRATH of the Lamb, WRATH of the Devil, WRATH of God…

IS Something God is SENDING from Heaven expressly to Heap UPON the Inhabitants UPON the face of the EARTH…expressly BECAUSE of their “unrighteousness”…

WHY would God Heap the same UPON CHRIST’S CHURCH MEMBERS, who HAVE become CLEANSED of all unrighteousness…and part of the REASON, they ARE a Member of Christ’s Church!

WHY would God?…well He wouldn’t, because He ALREADY…”Delivered” them FROM the wrath to COME….RAPTURE!

The “already delivered”…is Gods notification.
The “Rapture”…is the Manifestation of Gods PROMISE of “already delivered”…

The Members of Christ’s Church “are ALREADY” Sanctified…”SET APART”…DIVIDED FROM those NOT “IN” Christ.

When the Son of Man….”RETURNS”…
He came the FIRST TIME as a humbled servant.
When the Son of Man…”RETURNS”, He comes with POWER.

Being the Son of Man…ALL men can SEE Him.
Being with POWER…He has the MEANS to SEPARATE the DIVIDED…
(During the Tribulations, sent down to Earth, BY GOD…multitudes will become accountable for what they BELIEVE…
Believe in God, Believe in Jesus, Be anti-God, Be anti-Christ Jesus….dilly dallying, IS MOOT, Time for every man to stand for his belief, and be separated FROM GOD….if their free will choosing is NOT Belief IN the Lord God…

Uh…Members of Christ Church HAVE ALREADY given an OATH of their Word, their Heartful Belief….Ya, think God misunderstood their commitment? Forgot to Baptize them with His Holy Spirit? The Lamb FORGOT to enter their names in the Lambs Book of Life?

How will the Son of Man ….sitting on a white cloud for ALL to see…Swinging a sickle to Separate the Divided….PUT those already Divided, already Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

With those AGAINST God?
With those who JUST decide, but have NOT completed the REQUIREMENTS to BECOME Holy Spirit Baptized?

You have a Dilemma….there are only two groups being separated….and neither are those already Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

You have another Dilemma…you have Christ returning….when it was the Son of Man that was sent to Earth…

CONTINUED

CONTINUED

God had an ORDER and WAY of introducing…the Lord, the Son of Man, the Son of God, the Christ….on and on….It doesn’t matter what you “KNOW” about Him…but it does matter when you are promoting or rejecting prophecy, and not using the correct titles, God Himself declared.

You may be called by multiple names, titles, descriptions….and they are specific, and used at specific times, by specific people…

The Same applies to Scripture…
The Lord God Almighty has multiple names, multiple titles, multiple descriptions…they are specific, used at specific times, for specific purposes to reveal What “part” of God IS DOING WHAT.

It is the Lord that CLAIMS Christ Jesus’ Church, Because THEY ARE ALREADY “separated” (ie called sanctified…ED, past tense) and “made righteous” and “not appointed to suffer the wrath to come”.

It is the Son of Man, whom God prepared a body FOR Earthly men TO SEE…and thus He returns in that same body, for the same purpose….for EARTHLY men to SEE.

Just saying…ponder and consider Gods ORDER and WAY.

Glory to God,
God Bless you,

Taken

 

[ewq1938]

There is a post trib rapture..........after the pretrib rapture.

No, the rapture is only after the GT is over according to Paul and Christ. The church is here for the entire GT, except many fall away in what they think is a rapture/departure.

 

[The Light]

No, the rapture is only after the GT is over according to Paul and Christ. The church is here for the entire GT, except many fall away in what they think is a rapture/departure.

Do you have chapters and verses on this contention?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you have chapters and verses on this contention?

Which contention?

 

[Davy]

Indeed. You need to think carefully.

By the end of this, we will see if you... think carefully, or not.

Christ defeated Satan at the Cross and cast him into the bottomless pit so that he could be restrained while Christ built the church.

Christ by His crucifixion, death and resurrection indeed did... defeat Satan and death. But Satan was NOT locked in the bottomless pit at that time, and you saying it did means you never read the following by Apostle Peter...

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

Looks like you've not been careful enough in reading, for Peter wrote that after... Christ had already died on the cross. The time when Satan will be locked in chains in his pit prison, i.e., the bottomless pit, is only on the day that Jesus returns, as written in Revelation 20. Has Jesus Christ already returned today? Nope!

So the church was safe from Satan's reach until all Elect are secured. THEN Christ allowed Satan to come into His Church with his false prophets and christs (FALSE PROPHET) for the purpose of deceiving the rebellion-professed Christians - and the Elect if that is possible! NOT the world because it is already under Satan's control.
The problem is that you think that the false prophet is out there to deceive the "world" or "nations" when in fact he is only found in God's New Testament congregation deceiving people with lying signs and wonders on the behalf of the first beast (which is the world). Geez.

You really don't know what... I think, and there is no way I can agree with all the doctrines of men that you declare instead of staying in the written Bible Scripture. The for the appearance of the "false prophet" has not even come yet today, simply because that's a ROLE that only the coming Antichrist will play. Hopefully you'll get back to doing your own Bible study instead who or what you are listening to.

 

[Davy]

I was not trying to quote. I was making a statement, that you are afraid. You blocked me in another thread after you made false statements about the truth of the pre tribulation rapture.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about. You have given NO references. So the above is all made-up as far as I'm concerned.

As I said...........you blocked me commenting in that thread.

And as I have said already, I have no clue what you are talking about, as you have given NO references. Nor do I know what you mean by 'blocking' you. Now I can put you on my IGNORE list, which I often do with those who don't care to use reason in The Word of God and admit it 'as written'.

I studied man's philosophy long, long ago, in my younger years before I became a Christian and got into Bible study, so it's easy for me to recognize when someone treats God's Word as some big book of philosophical allegories or as just a book of poetry.

Quit beating around the bush. Produce any scripture that you think proves there is no pre trib rapture. Then don't block me from commenting with the truth.

I don't beat around the bush. If you haven't yet noticed, me NOT beating around the bush is one of things deceived brethren here that don't study hate about me.

And I am pretty certain that I quoted to you the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture which Lord Jesus Himself revealed the time of His coming to gather His saints is "Immediately after the tribulation...":

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

In some of my posts, I even showed how those above underlined phrases are the SAME teaching about Christ gathering His Church that Apostle Paul covered in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17!

 

[Davy]

As I said, I'm reading some of your other posts to different people. Do you really want to play that card?

You won't be able to counter what I showed from those posts from the written Word of God UNLESS you lie about it. So go ahead. I already know what the result will be, and our Heavenly Father and His Son will know it too.

I could produce a plethora of scriptural statements like this. What have you proved? I see nothing about disproving the truth of the rapture of the Church.

You mean disproving the false PRE-trib rapture of the Church. So let's not be coy and just drop off that prefix of PRE-trib, because that is the type rapture theory you are actually talking about.

Me, personally, I prefer the KJV rendering of Greek harpazo, which is "caught up". Reason is, because of man's false Pre-trib Rapture tries to do what you just did to confuse the Biblically unlearned, by dropping that Pre-trib prefix off the word 'rapture', and just using the word 'rapture' by itself, like you did.

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

 

[The Light]

Which contention?

This contention.........................."No, the rapture is only after the GT is over according to Paul and Christ."

 

[The Light]

And I am pretty certain that I quoted to you the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture which Lord Jesus Himself revealed the time of His coming to gather His saints is "Immediately after the tribulation...":

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

As we can see, this is the gathering FROM HEAVEN AND EARTH. We also see that Jesus sends His angels. This is not the rapture of the Church when the Lord Himself comes. We see this rapture..........here. This event occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE the wrath of God which occurs IMMEDATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Who is gathered from heaven.........the Church. The Church is seen in heaven........here.
Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

It seems you do not understand the difference from the Lord Himself coming and the Lord sending His angels. Not the same event.

 

[The Light]

You won't be able to counter what I showed from those posts from the written Word of God UNLESS you lie about it. So go ahead. I already know what the result will be, and our Heavenly Father and His Son will know it too.

The Word counters what you are saying. The Word does not lie.

You mean disproving the false PRE-trib rapture of the Church. So let's not be coy and just drop off that prefix of PRE-trib, because that is the type rapture theory you are actually talking about.

Me, personally, I prefer the KJV rendering of Greek harpazo, which is "caught up". Reason is, because of man's false Pre-trib Rapture tries to do what you just did to confuse the Biblically unlearned, by dropping that Pre-trib prefix off the word 'rapture', and just using the word 'rapture' by itself, like you did.

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

This scripture is about the rapture of the Church............PRE TRIB. That's why they are seen in heaven in Rev 5. That's why the 24 elders have crowns in Revelation 4............Jesus has come.

The barley harvest occurs first. That is the dead in Christ rising first. The alive that remain will not precede the dead. The Lord will then return for the wheat harvest. He will bring the dead with Him. When the Lord Himself comes with the dead the alive that remained will be caught up together with them in the clouds.

So yes. This is the rapture of the Church BEFORE the tribulation. And the great tribulation happens BEFORE the wrath of God.

 

[ewq1938]

This contention.........................."No, the rapture is only after the GT is over according to Paul and Christ."

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)



Here we see the second coming mentioned 3 times, then the resurrection and then the rapture. This proves the rapture is connected to the second coming. All that needs to be proven is when the second coming happens to know when the rapture happens.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


The second coming happens AFTER the GT is over, so the rapture happens post-Trib. Circumventing these two passages is to ignore the scriptural evidence of WHEN the rapture is going to happen.

 

[TribulationSigns]

By the end of this, we will see if you... think carefully, or not.

Say someone with a carnal mind. We shall see.

Christ by His crucifixion, death and resurrection indeed did... defeat Satan and death.

Glad you got it.

But Satan was NOT locked in the bottomless pit at that time, and you saying it did means you never read the following by Apostle Peter...

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

According to the infallible word of God Satan was INDEED bound over 2000 years ago so that Christ could spoil (take by conquest) and set free those held captive as his prisoners.

Revelation 6:2

• "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

Because Christ as White Horse, has gone forth and conquered/overcome Satan, we are more than conquerors. In reality, if Christ had not conquered and spoiled Satan's house, and Satan wasn't bound 2000+ years ago, then all of us are still held in spiritual captivity, still in bondage to him, and were never made free or translated into Christ's kingdom. That cannot be. Selah!

Matthew 12:28-29

• "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
• Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."

Christ did cast out devils by the Spirit of God therefore the promised Kingdom of God has already come. In Christ's parable detailing this mystery, the strong man here is Satan, his house is the captivity wherein he held the elect in servitude or bondage, his goods were those elect, to spoil them mean to take them by conquest, and CLEARLY Christ says this couldn't happen "unless" He first bound the strong man." i.e., this deliverance of the captivity couldn't happen before Satan was bound. Only then could we (the spoil, his captives) be freed from our captivity to bondage of sin. Selah.

John 8:31-37

• "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
• And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
• They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
• Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
• And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
• If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
• I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you."

As you do not understand Davy, so they also did not understand that they were in spiritual captivity to sin, and their Messiah had already come to free that captivity. But all they could see was physical captivity they wanted liberty from, and a physical kingdom they wanted to be established on this sin-cursed earth. That was never the prophecy in view. Christ fulfilled it all. But according to His true proverb, He "FIRST" He had to bind Satan. Then and only then could the captivity be set free. And that is exactly what Christ did, He destroyed the Devil that we (his spoil) would no longer be subject to that bondage to sin. And He did it through His death and resurrection.

Hebrews 2:14-15

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

He put Satan, a spirit, under lock, chain, and key so that we might be delivered from bondage unto salvation. And when all are saved who are to be saved, that binding with chain (Revelation 20) will be loosed. But not one second before all Israel are Sealed. This is the purpose of Satan's binding!

You already forgot that Satan was bound for the sake of the Elect which is why he still roams around as a lion trying to stop salvation gospel from reaching God's Elect.

Looks like you've not been careful enough in reading, for Peter wrote that after... Christ had already died on the cross. The time when Satan will be locked in chains in his pit prison, i.e., the bottomless pit, is only on the day that Jesus returns, as written in Revelation 20. Has Jesus Christ already returned today? Nope!

LOL. You are not being logically or rather spiritually blind.

Satan is a spirit. Will he be bound with physical chains and key in a physical "pit prison" somewhere? You do not get it. Jesus Christ, a Messenger (aggelos) from heaven Satan cannot thwart the building of the Lord's New Testament temple with the chosen of then ations, because he has been bound from doing so! That power of binding is in the symbolism of the key, the chain, and the Messenger from Heaven!

Look, Satan cannot be bound with a literal chain of iron, Right? Or locked in a pit with a literal brass key? No, Satan is a spirit being which cannotbe bound by literal earthly devices or places. The words here of keys and chains have SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE! The key here symbolizes that the Messenger (Jesus) has the right and authority to bind and loose. THis messenger come down from Heaven holds the right and authority and means (key) to bind Satan. The signification being, "He who holds the key, holds the ability and authority to restrain Satan." Selah! That would also include ability and authority to LOOSE Satan from that restraint. The chain symbolizes the power (force or energy required to do the holding) to bind. It is a "Great" chain becasue Satan is a spiritual strong adversary, upon whom only a great special binding from God will restrain. The bottomless pit is symbolism for a boundless void (abyss) of nothingness. Satan (a spirit being) is held in idleness, that his ability to deceive the gentiles (lost) whom God is NOW also drawing by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, is stopped. For example, Satan cannot prevent this while God's church is being built with Elect coming in from all the nations. After this, with all Elect be coming in, Satan will be loosened again to deceive the lost to ensure that they cannot find salvation anymore.

Christ is the "representation" of the body of Christ. The kingdom of God in heaven, is represented here on Earth by the church, not national Israel. Now think about why Christ gave the "keys" to the church?

Matthew 16:19

• "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall HAVE BEEN bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall HAVE BEEN loosed in heaven."

Point is as long as the church is faithfully doing God's will on Earth so that Satan will remain restrained until all Elect are secured. After this, when the church has increasely become unfaithful, SHE, is the one who is responsible for loosening Satan! She is the fallen messenger that allow Satan to get out of bottomless pit. God allows it so that He uses Satan as a tool of judgment upon his unfaithuyfl congregation....only after ALL ELECT has been secured first!

So it's you who needs to reconsider the biblical facts... if you have spiritual ears to hear!

You really don't know what... I think, and there is no way I can agree with all the doctrines of men that you declare instead of staying in the written Bible Scripture. The for the appearance of the "false prophet" has not even come yet today, simply because that's a ROLE that only the coming Antichrist will play.

You cannot see the false prophet really is, if you are waiting for a single man. He is the body of Satan which makes up of many false prophets and christs in the Congregation and.... they are already among you, but you are too busy looking for someone in Europe or whatever. Sad.