False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[The Light]

Well let us look at Ez. 38 and your contention that it happens after teh millenial kingdom and the onset of eternity!

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Ez. has a limited number of nations and is led by gog of Magog while rev.20:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

It is led by Satan directly and has the whole earth battling.

Ez. 38: 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Gog comes to take a spoil and prey.

13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Several nations complain.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.

But Rev. 20:

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God destroys them direct from heaven. No swords.

Ez. 39 speaks of the events Israelis do in the land after th einvasion. Rewv. 20 shows the Great White throne comes down.

Do you really believe that in eternity Israel will be burning weapons of war for 7 years? That in eternity they will be burying dead?

No though Gog and Magog are mentioned in each, they have differing results in differing times.

Ezekiel 38
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,


Additionally, where is Iraq???????????????????

 

[The Light]

It is with Israel.

The 70 weeks is all about Israel . It is to prepare Israel to receive Jesus as Messiah. The context shows it is with many in Israel (could be the orthodox leadership- we will see)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The signing begins the 70th week of Daniel which we call the tribulation. And all 70 weeks are about the people of Israel and jerusalem.

The seventy weeks is about Israel. The confirming of the covenant is with many. One of the horns of the beast of the earth is given the stephanos crown which is the symbol of the United Nations

The covenant confirmed with many is likely to be a confirming of a 7-Year UN covenant. I might look something like this.

 

[The Light]

All the fleshy theories by men's doctrines trying to figure out who the coming Antichrist will be is always wrongly assigning him as being a flesh-born man.

You seem to have a bad case of misunderstanding the Word. Thankfully, when the pre trib rapture occurs, we won't be here to see the man of sin.

And run like the wind....Hide quickly.

 

[MA2444]

It is with Israel.

The 70 weeks is all about Israel . It is to prepare Israel to receive Jesus as Messiah. The context shows it is with many in Israel (could be the orthodox leadership- we will see)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The signing begins the 70th week of Daniel which we call the tribulation. And all 70 weeks are about the people of Israel and jerusalem.

That's how I understand it also. But who can tell me why The lord determined 70 weeks upon Israel? I wont make you wait, lol. It was because they did not recognize or know the day of His coming. From what I understand it's all in the prophecies when the Lord would come and do His Trumphant entry into Jerusalem on the donkey. They should have known!
Dont ask me me to explain the details on that one, lol. It's all in the book of Daniel. Mostly Daniel 9.

 

[jeffweeder]

But who can tell me why The lord determined 70 weeks upon Israel?

Because of the seventy years of captivity for not finding his rest.
In the 70 weeks, they find the eternal rest through the shedding of the blood of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah and Anointed one of Dan 9, and his Atonement for our sin, that lead to the ripe fruits of his everlasting righteousness.

2 Chronicles 36:21
to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had restored its Sabbaths; for as long as the land lay desolate it kept Sabbath until seventy years were complete.

 

[ewq1938]

You seem to have a bad case of misunderstanding the Word. Thankfully, when the pre trib rapture occurs, we won't be here to see the man of sin.

I have noticed similar teachings about the antichrist/man of sin etc.

Doctrines like Pre-trib teach the church will be gone, so they don't worry about the antichrist or look for any of the signs of his arrival.

Various forms of Preterism including Amillennialism teach the antichrist already came in the past so there is no need to watch for him now.

Other doctrines teach that the antichrist isn't ever a singular man, or that denominations like the RCC and it's Papacy are the antichrist which is a mis-identification of the last and final antichrist and antichrist type system.

All false doctrines teach some version of doctrine where it's adherents need not worry about or watch for the not-yet-here antichrist[/B. Seems like a great thing for satan to introduce into the churches so his antichrist (whoever he is) can slip right in and deceive those not watching. The antichrist is also known as a false christ and that is the most dangerous thing not to be knowledgeable about in the endtimes because of the apostasia (the Apostasy).


So, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.

That is extremely dangerous. Beware!

 

[TribulationSigns]

No it isn't. The "false prophet" of Rev.16:13-14 that works 'miracles' to deceive the world.

World? Do you realize that the world is already under Satan's control? The goal of the false prophet is to deceive those WITHIN the congregation who have not yet been sealed by God. Read Revelation 9 yourself.

You are joking, right?

The Joke is on you because you can't find the chapter and verse I asked. for example.

You need to do a Bible study on the idea of the 'pit' of hell, or abyss. It would take several Bible references in Bible 101 to explain that to you per God's written Word. I guess you don't believe what Apostle Peter taught about the "spirits in prison" either, and how Jesus preached The Gospel to those dead at His resurrection.

That is not the answer to my question which is to find the chapter and verse where you claim that the Bottomless Pit is Earth. Please admit if you can't find one.

That's trying... to say the "false prophet" will be some flesh person, which idea is NOT written anywhere in God's Word.

You don't get it. Satan is a spirit that he works through men - those people who have NOT yet been born again! The false prophet represents those IN THE CHURCH, who pretend to be Christians but deceive many with their false gospel (lyinhg signs and wonders).

One of the LIES of Amillennialism is that since it rejects Christ's future "thousand years" reign that starts at His future return, they thus believe all the wicked are destroyed on the day of Christ's return, and that we go immediately into God's new heavens and a new earth timing.

Believing that is against God's written Word, and it's easy to prove it is a leaven doctrine from men that is not written, because I'll give just 2 simple Bible witnesses that easily show Amillennialism is a false doctrine of the devil...

Read this study concerning the millennial kingdom.

The following Zechariah 14 Scripture covers the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns in the future, and His return to the Mount of Olives bringing all His saints with Him, and then into the time after that, with His future "thousand years" reign with the "rod of iron" over the wicked unsaved, and over all nations on earth...

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV

Read this study concerning the feast of the tabernacles:

 

[The Light]

I have noticed similar teachings about the antichrist/man of sin etc.

Doctrines like Pre-trib teach the church will be gone, so they don't worry about the antichrist or look for any of the signs of his arrival.

You should know who this man is. However, the Church will be in heaven........see Revelation 5, before the man of sin is revealed.

Various forms of Preterism including Amillennialism teach the antichrist already came in the past so there is no need to watch for him now.

Other doctrines teach that the antichrist isn't ever a singular man, or that denominations like the RCC and it's Papacy are the antichrist which is a mis-identification of the last and final antichrist and antichrist type system.

All false doctrines teach some version of doctrine where it's adherents need not worry about or watch for the not-yet-here antichrist[/B. Seems like a great thing for satan to introduce into the churches so his antichrist (whoever he is) can slip right in and deceive those not watching. The antichrist is also known as a false christ and that is the most dangerous thing not to be knowledgeable about in the endtimes because of the apostasia (the Apostasy).


So, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.

That is extremely dangerous. Beware!

The antichrist is a man...........the man of sin. You should know who he is. And you should know that the beast of the sea is Nimrod, who was and is not and will come again. He is the eighth and is of the seven.

 

[ewq1938]

You should know who this man is. However, the Church will be in heaven........see Revelation 5, before the man of sin is revealed.

As I said, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ezekiel 38
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,


Additionally, where is Iraq???????????????????

Yes and so? I have been to Israel and most of th ekibbutz, even th eones near Gaza and the WQest Bank are unwalled.

Iraq may be part of Persia, if not they ARE NOT PART OF THE INVADING FORCES. Neither is Jordan and Egypt.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The seventy weeks is about Israel. The confirming of the covenant is with many. One of the horns of the beast of the earth is given the stephanos crown which is the symbol of the United Nations

The covenant confirmed with many is likely to be a confirming of a 7-Year UN covenant. I might look something like this.

Is with many. Israel is divided between secular and sacred camps. The antichrist may make the covenant with the secular side. That is with the man. Even this covenant is about Israel. The UN may be the one world govt. or something that takes it place. From there we get the ten kings and from those ten kings we get the AC who subdues three of the ten rulers (He is the rider on the white horse.)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's how I understand it also. But who can tell me why The lord determined 70 weeks upon Israel? I wont make you wait, lol. It was because they did not recognize or know the day of His coming. From what I understand it's all in the prophecies when the Lord would come and do His Trumphant entry into Jerusalem on the donkey. They should have known!
Dont ask me me to explain the details on that one, lol. It's all in the book of Daniel. Mostly Daniel 9.

Well
god never told us why 70 weeks. So He said its nunya(business).

 

[MA2444]

Well
god never told us why 70 weeks. So He said its nunya(business).

It says why right in Daniel 9.

 

[Timtofly]

Because of the seventy years of captivity for not finding his rest.
In the 70 weeks, they find the eternal rest through the shedding of the blood of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah and Anointed one of Dan 9, and his Atonement for our sin, that lead to the ripe fruits of his everlasting righteousness.

2 Chronicles 36:21
to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had restored its Sabbaths; for as long as the land lay desolate it kept Sabbath until seventy years were complete.

This verse is why the Babylonian captivity lasted 70 years. Not necessarily why the promise in Daniel 9 was 70 weeks. The only correlation is the number 70. "Weeks" are not the same as "years". 70 years is not the same length as 490 years. The promise was 7 times longer than the punishment of captivity.


The promise was also put on hold, until the fulness of the Gentiles was brought in. Israel was placed under partial blindness, so has to wait until the Prince to come, will physically come. Then that blindness will be removed. Then the 70th week will be completed. There is not 7 years left, not by a long shot. The first 3.5 years were physically completed as Messiah. But the Prince to come part I still future.

I am not saying redemption was not complete. I am saying the promises have not been implemented, because sin and death are still physical realities on all humans.

The OT Law/Covenant placed all under a physical economy that dealt with the symptoms of sin and death. Just a bandaid. At the end of the 70weeks, all of Adam's punishment will be removed.

 

[The Light]

As I said, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.

According to Revelation 5 the Church will be in heaven before the Antichrist goes forth conquering and to conquer. The man of sin............IS A MAN.

It is impossible to be deceived because the Lord will come as lightning from the east to the west. He won't be in the Temple declaring He is God. He will set foot on the mount of Olives at the end Armageddon. But first He will come at the 6th seal to gather the elect from heaven and earth. He will remain in the clouds at that coming seen here.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

Yes and so? I have been to Israel and most of th ekibbutz, even th eones near Gaza and the WQest Bank are unwalled.

If you put walls around gaza and the west bank, you would be walling IN millions of Palestinians. Not much sense in that.

Iraq may be part of Persia, if not they ARE NOT PART OF THE INVADING FORCES. Neither is Jordan and Egypt.

Babylon and the land of the Chaldean will not be dwelt in, so they will not be taking part in Gog-Magog which happens after the 1000 years
Isaiah 13
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

 

[ewq1938]

According to Revelation 5 the Church will be in heaven before the Antichrist goes forth conquering and to conquer.

It says no such thing. The rapture is post trib and Rev is not written in chronological order.

 

[Davy]

LOL. I see you are still afraid of the truth. Did you find it necessary to block me in another thread because you knew that your views would not stand up to scripture? Weak.............

There's no way to tell what you are trying... to quote. If you are going to quote people, include at least a complete 'phrase', in quotation marks, or in the subdued box.

That statement you make, bearing false witness against me by falsely claiming I'm afraid of the Truth, is simply a huge show of your Biblical illiteracy and stupidity. Mocking is NOT how you conduct a valid scholarly debate.

And because you resort to MOCKING, and fail to provide any Bible Scripture to backup your ideas, that suggests that you cannot understand what God's Word says, so you have to default to men's doctrines from charlatans that they themselves only act and claim like they know the Truth, when they don't.

And when you do hear the REAL TRUTH of God's written Word from someone like me who stays in God's Word as written, it upsets YOUR little false apple cart that you have created by allowing Satan's host to DECEIVE you!

 

[Davy]

You seem to have a bad case of misunderstanding the Word.

There's that stupidity of mocking again, showing a brain that just cannot quite come to reading comprehension of Bible Scripture as written. You may as well just draw straws as to what a Bible verse might mean.

Thankfully, when the pre trib rapture occurs, we won't be here to see the man of sin.

And run like the wind....Hide quickly.

Thankfully, IF... you continue in that FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE FROM MEN, and fly away to the Antichrist like that doctrine is designed to make you do, then those us in Christ Jesus that HEED His Word as written won't have put up with those like you in His Kingdom, look where you likely will be cast to because you did not... listen to Him and thus were deceived...

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

Matt 22:12-13
12 And he saith unto him, "Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment?" And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
KJV

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

To LOVE and PUSH that FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY from Satan's host means to LOVE A LIE. Thus your soul is in danger.

 

[Davy]

World? Do you realize that the world is already under Satan's control? The goal of the false prophet is to deceive those WITHIN the congregation who have not yet been sealed by God. Read Revelation 9 yourself.

Just that statement you say that Satan is already in control of this world shows you've moved off the subject about the "false prophet". But yeah, I already well know that God has given Satan power in this present world, even as Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of this world and offered them to Him per Luke 4.

My response to you was against... you're calling the 'false prophet' being deceived Christians, which is a completely ignorant idea!

You said:
"The false prophet is the beast - the body of professed Christians who have performed with lying signs and wonders...."

No it isn't, was my response to that! What a loony idea that is! That idea is nowhere close to the simplicity of the written Bible Scripture about the "false prophet" that is going to be the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah.

NOWHERE did Jesus or His Apostles ever show that deceived Christian represent the "false prophet"! That's just stupid.

The Joke is on you because you can't find the chapter and verse I asked. for example.

No, I'm not joking, the danger of one's soul being cast into the 'abyss' of hell where Satan's pit prison is, is not something to joke about. But that's what YOU... are doing, joking about a simple Biblical matter that you should... easily already know about. So your stupid question to me is on par with a little child that asks why they have feet!

Look up the Hebrew and Greek for the word "hell", Bible 101 stuff. Want a little more detail about that place, see what Jesus taught about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16. And notice that place is associated with a 'pit' which also is used as an idea about a grave in the earth, even sheol.

That is not the answer to my question which is to find the chapter and verse where you claim that the Bottomless Pit is Earth. Please admit if you can't find one.

Dang! didn't know I was going to have to try and spoon feed you. Invest in a good Bible Dictionary, like the Smith's... or Nelsons...

PIT
A deep hole in the ground, either natural (Gen 14:10) or man-made (Gen 37:20). This word translates 12 Hebrew words in the Old Testament and two Greek words in the New Testament. The Hebrew word used most often denotes a cistern in which rainwater was collected (Lev 11:36).

Another Hebrew word referred to a pit sometimes used to trap animals or people (Ezek 19:4,8). These verses reflect this practice, either literally describing a snare or figuratively describing temptation (Ps 35:7).

The word pit is used in a theological way in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. As a deep underground place, "the Pit" became synonymous for SHEOL, the abode of the dead, the netherworld of departed spirits (Job 33:18,24; Ps 30:3; Isa 14:15).

In the New Testament, the phrase the bottomless pit refers to the abode of the demons. Satan will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit (Rev 20:2-3). Then he will be released from this pit or prison after a thousand years of captivity (Rev 20:4-7).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

You don't get it. Satan is a spirit that he works through men - those people who have NOT yet been born again! The false prophet represents those IN THE CHURCH, who pretend to be Christians but deceive many with their false gospel (lyinhg signs and wonders).

I very well DO... get what God's Word is teaching about the Bible prophecies for the end of this world. That because I stay... in His Word AS WRITTEN, and don't treat it like man's philosophy, which appears to be what you're trying to do, just like the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt which was subjected to many pagan Gnostic false doctrines.

Your problem is that you've been listening to a bunch a charlatans that teach from 'another spirit' instead of staying in God's Word as written. That's why even a simple reading of Bible Scripture upsets your mind! And that's a sign of the working of 'another spirit' that is deceiving you.

The "false prophet" is a ROLE that Satan as the Antichrist is coming to play when he loses the war in Heaven with Archangel Michael per Revelation 12:7-14. The serious Bible student who stays with God's Word as written should easily understand this because per Rev.16:13-14 the "false prophet" is shown working the "miracles" that the 2nd beast (Antichrist), the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 does, to deceive with...

Rev 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
KJV

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

That 'another spirit' in you won't let you READ those simple parts of the above Scripture in red, can it? You had best cast those evil spirits away from you and pray for Lord Jesus Christ to open you eyes, and remove your deception!