False Prophets

[Hidden In Him]

I'm not clear what you are saying. Here is the verse with "today"

Lol. I'm well aware the verse has "today" in it. Did you understand the argument I presented and are trying to refute it, or are you just playing with me?

 

[Cassandra]

LOL all you want. i didn't understand what you said.
That's Ok. If you want to continue to laugh, go ahead, but please refrain from responding to my post. I come to study and learn, not to be laughed at. Sorry I'm so stupid. Go interact with those who are more on your intelligence level.

 

[Enoch111]

Is Jimmy Swaggart a false prophet?

No. He has never claimed to be a prophet. But he is a false teacher.

 

[Enoch111]

I’ve noticed a lot of people here don’t like them. Why? I’m not a catholic actually but they don’t bother me so I have no Ill intent for them.

It is incorrect to say that Christians do not like (or even hate) Catholics. What is condemned is the Catholic Church and its false teachings (which are a snare to Catholics).

But those who consider themselves to be Catholics are generally fine, upstanding people (Biden and Pelosi excepted). Then we have the Mafia, who also consider themselves good Catholics. There are several groups of Mafia in Italy and Sicily and the are all essentially criminals (like Biden and Pelosi).

 

[Hidden In Him]

LOL all you want. i didn't understand what you said.
That's Ok. If you want to continue to laugh, go ahead, but please refrain from responding to my post. I come to study and learn, not to be laughed at. Sorry I'm so stupid. Go interact with those who are more on your intelligence level.

Okie dokie. You mentioned the punctuation (which is the crux of the argument to that verse), and I do find it refreshing when I can move at a faster pace with people.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Jesus did not go to Paradise that day. If you recall, when Mary Magdalene found him

John 20:15-17
'15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

He had not ascended to His Father.

This is the way I read it. "For I say unto you today, you will be with Me in paradise."
The words are truth, but not necessarily the punctuation.

Here's another example of misplaced punctuation (or lack of it):
Judges 4:21 "21 Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died

Jael was Heber's wife, There was no Jael Heber in the Bible.

Here's another:
Acts 19:12 "So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Here we have "sick" being used to modify handkerchiefs, instead of it being "So that from his body were brought unto the sick, handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

I'm sure there are more.

Thank you for the explanation. In the Greek Orthodox tradition, Jesus is said to have descended into hades and free all the souls. This happened during the 3 days when his body was in the tomb.
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (Matthew 12:40)
This is the reason why we believe Mary is in paradise. With that being said, we don’t say that Mary is equal to God but she holds a special place in the liturgy and is venerated.
.

 

[teamventure]

No. He has never claimed to be a prophet. But he is a false teacher.

What are Swaggarts false teachings?

 

[Cassandra]

Thank you for the explanation. In the Greek Orthodox tradition, Jesus is said to have descended into hades and free all the souls. This happened during the 3 days when his body was in the tomb.
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (Matthew 12:40)
This is the reason why we believe Mary is in paradise. With that being said, we don’t say that Mary is equal to God but she holds a special place in the liturgy and is venerated.
.View attachment 18385

What a lovely picture! Thank you! I'd be careful about tradition, though
And Mary is more than venerated in my opinion. Look at the amount of times one has to do a hail Mary on the rosary as opposed to an Our Father or a Glory Be. You can go boldly to the throne of grace. Jesus is all you need.

 

[Curtis]

Is Jimmy Swaggart a false prophet? Who else do you consider a false prophet? What are your views on miracles too? How can you tell if they’re false or not? Like the miracle of Fatima. What about nuns and monks?

This topic is open to anyone but @TLHKAJ can I get your thoughts on this? Or we can discuss in private if you prefer?

One has to make failed prophecies to be a false prophet.

 

[Curtis]

Deut 18:22 "when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.'

There are a bunch of them! Got a few hours? well worth the watch.

Not true in all cases. There are some prophecies made by Old Testament prophets that aren’t fulfilled yet - we don’t label them false prophets.

 

[Curtis]

Deut 18:22 "when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.'

There are a bunch of them! Got a few hours? well worth the watch.

Some of the prophecies about Trump serving two terms haven’t been proven false unless he’s not elected again in 2024.

Kim Clement is one who said Trump would serve two terms, years before Trump even ran for president the first time - but he didn’t prophesy two consecutive terms.

 

[Curtis]

Also what is the problem with Virgin Mary in this forum? And icons? Is venerating Virgin Mary a sin? Is she a false prophet? Many churches like the Greek Orthodox Church or Catholic Church venerate her. Are they ALL wrong?

Praying to Mary on their knees, building shrines to Mary, calling her the queen of heaven, and venerating her, is Mariolatry.

 

[Curtis]

Probably.

"by their fruit you will recognize them (false prophets).21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Matthew 7:20-21​

I haven't kept up with him but he was an adulterous womanizer all the while he had a successful church and TV ministry in the 80's. He had lousy fruit and did not do the will of the Father in heaven. He was/is a false prophet.

No, he’s not a false teacher - he has correct doctrine- he just didn’t live what he preached, which is hypocrisy, not false doctrine.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus did not go to Paradise that day. If you recall, when Mary Magdalene found him

John 20:15-17
'15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

He had not ascended to His Father.

This is the way I read it. "For I say unto you today, you will be with Me in paradise."
The words are truth, but not necessarily the punctuation.

Here's another example of misplaced punctuation (or lack of it):
Judges 4:21 "21 Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died

Jael was Heber's wife, There was no Jael Heber in the Bible.

Here's another:
Acts 19:12 "So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Here we have "sick" being used to modify handkerchiefs, instead of it being "So that from his body were brought unto the sick, handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

I'm sure there are more.

Not exactly right...

Before Jesus came and changed things, there were two compartments in the heart of the earth at that time.

One compartment, called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, held all of the righteous dead, because no soul could go to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.

It was separated by a great chasm from the torments compartment that the damned were put in, called Hell.

Jesus tells us about this in Luke 16 starting in verse 19.

When Jesus died His spirit descended into the heart, middle of the earth, and He preached to those spirits held in captivity there, most likely telling them He is Messiah and the Son of God who died for sins.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and PREACHED unto the SPIRITS in PRISON.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

When He rose from the dead he emptied out paradise and took those spirits with Him, which is why many dead people also rose and went into the city, after His resurrection.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Now those who die in Christ go to heaven - He moved paradise from in the earth, to heaven because He atoned for sins.

When Jesus said touch me not for I have not yet ascended to the Father, He hadn’t gone to heaven and presented Himself in the temple in heaven that the earthly temple was a copy of:

Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)

Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

In heaven Jesus sealed the deal, so to speak, and finalized the presenting of Himself as the perfect sacrifice for our sins in the temple in heaven.

Then He returned to earth and remained forty days before ascending again.

So what Jesus meant was, don’t delay me, I am in a hurry to ascend to the Father and take care of business.

Maranatha

 

[Curtis]

No. He has never claimed to be a prophet. But he is a false teacher.

Not a false teacher - his doctrine has always been correct - he just didn’t live what he preached, which was hypocrisy at the time, but keeping in mind that even the only man God said was a man after His own heart, who sang in the psalms how much he loved Gods laws, once fell into adultery and murder to cover it up, before repenting of it.

So King David became a hypocrite during that time period, too.

 

[Enoch111]

...Not a false teacher - his doctrine has always been correct...

This will also answer teamventure's question. Aside from the fact that Swaggart did some serious damage to himself and to the Gospel and refused to step away from the ministry, Swaggart's false teaching is not easy to pinpoint.

But in his "Message of the Cross" [The Message of the Cross | Jimmy Swaggart Ministries] he puts all the emphasis on "the cross" (in some mystical manner) but completely omits the work of the Holy Spirit in the matter of sanctification. He mentions the Holy Spirit in passing, but goes on and on about the cross without really explaining what it means in terms of sanctification and how it affects the Christian's behavior.

There is no doubt that the cross is central to the Gospel and to the sanctification of the Christian. But when someone omits (1) the resurrection of Christ and the power of the living Christ to deliver from sins and (2) the indwelling Holy Spirit and how He sanctifies the Christian, and enable him to live righteously, soberly, and godly, then that is a distortion of the truth.

The Bible says that we are to take up our cross and follow Christ. The Bible also says that we have been crucified with Christ. Which means that the sin nature cannot and must not have dominion over the believer. And that is also why God give each one the gift of the Holy Spirit, who empowers Christians to do the will of God. All of this should have been in Swaggart's message. But it is glaringly missing.

Also something which is glaringly missing on his website is a clear Statement of Faith. Why is he afraid to tell the world what exactly he believes? Instead he has a lot to say about Jimmy Swaggart, Donnie Swaggart, Frances Swaggart, and Gabriel Swaggart. Mostly bragging.

Furthermore he has produced a Bible commentary which includes the discredited Gap Theory regarding the creation account. There may be other errors which he promotes, but since I have ignored Swaggart all along, I will not pretend to know all his other false teachings.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Is Jimmy Swaggart a false prophet? Who else do you consider a false prophet? What are your views on miracles too? How can you tell if they’re false or not? Like the miracle of Fatima. What about nuns and monks?

This topic is open to anyone but @TLHKAJ can I get your thoughts on this? Or we can discuss in private if you prefer?

What's your problem with me? There is no rule of who can and cannot participate in a thread.

If a doctrine or prophecy, vision, or dream contradicts Scripture, it is false. Plain and simple. Worshiping anyone but God is idolatry and spiritual adultery.

 

[Pathfinder7]

October 31, 2021 (today)
Reformation Day..in Germany (10 states).
--
Interesting to note..
Martin Luther posted his 95 theses..in Wittenburg, Germany.
- October 31, 1517
- With less than four years, the Catholic Church would brand him as heretic.
----
It is easy..to label someone as false prophet, false teacher & heretic..nowadays.
- using some YouTube clips, online articles, etc..
----
I did not find Bible & theology teachers.. without errors/flaws.
- I have been studying the Bible, Thology & History..for 50 years.
- Still learning..
---
My view/perspective is from..
- Observation/experience..since 1970's.

 

[Hidden In Him]

But in his "Message of the Cross" [The Message of the Cross | Jimmy Swaggart Ministries] he puts all the emphasis on "the cross" (in some mystical manner) but completely omits the work of the Holy Spirit in the matter of sanctification. He mentions the Holy Spirit in passing, but goes on and on about the cross without really explaining what it means in terms of sanctification and how it affects the Christian's behavior.

There is no doubt that the cross is central to the Gospel and to the sanctification of the Christian. But when someone omits (1) the resurrection of Christ and the power of the living Christ to deliver from sins and (2) the indwelling Holy Spirit and how He sanctifies the Christian, and enable him to live righteously, soberly, and godly, then that is a distortion of the truth.

The Bible says that we are to take up our cross and follow Christ. The Bible also says that we have been crucified with Christ. Which means that the sin nature cannot and must not have dominion over the believer. And that is also why God give each one the gift of the Holy Spirit, who empowers Christians to do the will of God. All of this should have been in Swaggart's message. But it is glaringly missing.

Yes, I think that's a fairly close assessment. It's "faith in faith," rather than faith in the Holy Spirit or faith in God. The "message of the cross" struck me as little more than faith theology applied to sanctification. There's nothing really novel about it, and like faith theology, it leaves a ton of things out, especially a proper focus upon the Lord and His work rather than on ours.

Furthermore he has produced a Bible commentary which includes the discredited Gap Theory regarding the creation account. There may be other errors which he promotes, but since I have ignored Swaggart all along, I will not pretend to know all his other false teachings.

I own a few of them. They're a disaster.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What's your problem with me? There is no rule of who can and cannot participate in a thread.

Struck me as an odd request as well. The whole "don't reply to me" thing assumes one has control over the site and can dictate who can and cannot respond to his posts. I'm afraid that's not how it works around here.