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I beg to differ. Why do we call it "born again" when we are reborn of the Spirit? It is because we were once born in relationship to God. That relationship was lost on account of our sin (Ezek 18:20).Thus 'offspring' here speaks to the physical. It does not mean that all are children of God. It does not mean that all are of God. They are all offspring in that they are all of one blood going all the way back to Adam.
I beg to differ. Why do we call it "born again" when we are reborn of the Spirit? It is because we were once born in relationship to God. That relationship was lost on account of our sin (Ezek 18:20).
Dispensationalism calls this initial relationship as having an "untested positive predisposition towards God." That is just a fancy way of saying that there is a relationship there that becomes broken through sin (the "test").
And let's face it, stranger .. the only spiritual things we have at birth is instincts — and one of those is to know God, Ecc 3:11. We have no knowledge, no guilt, no faith, etc. at birth, right? How is it you attach "total depravity" to a person's innate soul?
skypair
Hi, stranger. We are, indeed, born in relationship with God -- the same relationship as Adam in his creation. God didn't change the spiritual pattern .. and Adam's fall simply changed the physical pattern. Rather than being born not knowing of our nakedness, our FLESH, we are born a) aware of our flesh and its needs and b) not the least bit aware of God.No one born was in a saved or right relationship with God. And Adam and Eve were not born. I guess it depends on your view or original sin. I believe all are born sinners due to Adams sin. Thus we all need to be born again.
Hi, stranger. We are, indeed, born in relationship with God -- the same relationship as Adam in his creation. God didn't change the spiritual pattern .. and Adam's fall simply changed the physical pattern. Rather than being born not knowing of our nakedness, our FLESH, we are born a) aware of our flesh and its needs and b) not the least bit aware of God.
And you see, this is why God loves every person who was ever born. Think about your own kids (if you have some). You love them .. they are "mini-You's," right? With so much potential -- if they will only obey you, right? But we don't, do we.
As to the question: If I understand you right, you don't know the difference between your soul and your spirit. Your soul consists of your "heart" and your "conscience." These combined make up your character, your personality, who you are. These come from things LEARNED through living day-by-day. We are not born with comprehension of anything -- neither good nor evil. Therefore, your conscience cannot be guilty of sin, can it? And your heart cannot desire to sin .. so there is no "sin nature" either. Does that answer your question?
skypair
yikes. This from the guy whose grandson is the high school arms dealer, lol.No, I disagree. When we are born, we are born in a fallen state, due to Adams sin. Our relationship with God at that time is apart from Him. We have no personal relationship with Him Adams fall definitely changed the spiritual and physical condition of Adam and Eve. Now death entered, spiritual death first, and then the body dies later.
Where is your Scripture that God loves every person born?
I know the difference between soul and spirit. Apparently you don't as you don't give any explanation as to that difference. You simply want to give your explanation of the soul.
Your born guilty of sin because of Adams transgression. You are born with a sin nature you inherited from Adam. Thus you do desire to sin. Thus your conscience convicts you of sin.
Your statements reveal how off you are. And they reveal why I had questions about your statements.
Stranger
Then what does it mean to you that we are His "offspring?" (Acts 17:26-28)No, I disagree. When we are born, we are born in a fallen state, due to Adams sin. Our relationship with God at that time is apart from Him. We have no personal relationship with Him.
Maybe you have heard it .. Jn 3:16 .. "For God so loved the WORLD...?"Where is your Scripture that God loves every person born?
Your spirit is your MIND, EMOTIONS, and WILL .. your soul is your HEART and conscience. Happy now?You simply want to give your explanation of the soul.
Stranger .. I don't even know what sin is at birth. It is IMPOSSIBLE, then, for the sin nature to precede sin. We have to know we are doing wrong and do it anyway before our "nature," our character, becomes perverted into a sin nature.You're born guilty of sin because of Adams transgression. You are born with a sin nature you inherited from Adam. Thus you do desire to sin. Thus your conscience convicts you of sin.
Well, obviously the same can be said about you, reference me. But if you are going to say that we are not God's "offspring" (not "creation," offspring -- born of Him in some way), you are not going to understand the truth about the nature you were born with.Your statements reveal how off you are.
Then what does it mean to you that we are His "offspring?" (Acts 17:26-28)
Maybe you have heard it .. Jn 3:16 .. "For God so loved the WORLD...?"
Your spirit is your MIND, EMOTIONS, and WILL .. your soul is your HEART and conscience. Happy now?
Stranger .. I don't even know what sin is at birth. It is IMPOSSIBLE, then, for the sin nature to precede sin. We have to know we are doing wrong and do it anyway before our "nature," our character, becomes perverted into a sin nature.
Well, obviously the same can be said about you, reference me. But if you are going to say that we are not God's "offspring" (not "creation," offspring -- born of Him in some way), you are not going to understand the truth about the nature you were born with.
skypair
no, you were not born a sinner, with all due respect, that is a bald faced lie that you are just repeating, and you have no Scripture to back it up. Babies do not sin. You cannot sin until you have the Law.You were born a sinner.
Did you "create" your children .. or did you procreate them? Yes, the physical pattern was created by God from Adam, but the spiritual pattern was procreated by God making them His "offspring" in so far as their birth is concerned.I already told you in post #79 about what 'offspring' means.
Pity the man who let's himself get bound and fettered with a false theology. You KNOW that those two passages are not the same. One speaks of the humans in the world and the other the world system. Even you don't believe that God loves the world system .. or do you?Yes, I have heard of it. (John 3:16) is talking about the world, not every individual. If you want to use that verse to prove God loves everybody, then we as believers are not to love anybody. (1John 2:15) "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
Apparently you don't understand the concept of "sinner." A sinner is a person who actually SINS. And we know from Ezek 18 that the children do not bear the sins of their parents. We know, too, that sin is a learned behavior, stranger. In fact, we sin unintentionally even before we understand the concept, Ro 7:8. That is, those looking at your behavior may call you a sinner; but you, yourself, have no awareness of it, no sin guilt, and no sin nature (ergo, no "spiritual death") as a result of unintentional sin.Irregardless how you or anyone wants to define body, soul, and spirit, it doesn't matter. Your whole body, soul, and spirit, were fallen at birth.
It doesn't matter what you knew at birth. You were born a sinner.
Did you "create" your children .. or did you procreate them? Yes, the physical pattern was created by God from Adam, but the spiritual pattern was procreated by God making them His "offspring" in so far as their birth is concerned.
Pity the man who let's himself get bound and fettered with a false theology. You KNOW that those two passages are not the same. One speaks of the humans in the world and the other the world system. Even you don't believe that God loves the world system .. or do you?
Apparently you don't understand the concept of "sinner." A sinner is a person who actually SINS. And we know from Ezek 18 that the children do not bear the sins of their parents. We know, too, that sin is a learned behavior, stranger. In fact, we sin unintentionally even before we understand the concept, Ro 7:8. That is, those looking at your behavior may call you a sinner; but you, yourself, have no awareness of it, no sin guilt, and no sin nature (ergo, no "spiritual death") as a result of unintentional sin.
skypair
That is "creation." What Acts 17:27-28 is talking about is birth .. our first birth.Says 'you', concerning offspring. What I did was show you that 'offspring' speaks to being created by one blood.
Do you not see the difference between being created and being born? The scriptures tell us to realize this and then that we must be "born again."Just your 'spiritual' opinion.
So let me get this straight .. we are NOT to love the world that God DOES love? You're joking, right?I know those two passages speak of the same 'world'. Look it up. I didn't say God didn't love the world. He does. I just said you can't make 'world', speak to everyone. Which is what you are doing. And the passage I gave in (1John 2:15) prove it.
Every thought and behavior is learned .. well, except our instincts. And those instincts are godly — survival and life. Even animals exhibit this. There is certainly no instinct towards death which is what you are suggesting.Sorry, sin is not learned. It is inherited. You are born spiritually dead and a sinner. You inherited it from Adam.
That is "creation." What Acts 17:27-28 is talking about is birth .. our first birth.
Do you not see the difference between being created and being born? The scriptures tell us to realize this and then that we must be "born again."
So let me get this straight .. we are NOT to love the world that God DOES love? You're joking, right?
Every thought and behavior is learned .. well, except our instincts. And those instincts are godly — survival and life. Even animals exhibit this. There is certainly no instinct towards death which is what you are suggesting.
skypair
Hi, stranger. We are, indeed, born in relationship with God -- the same relationship as Adam in his creation. God didn't change the spiritual pattern .. and Adam's fall simply changed the physical pattern. Rather than being born not knowing of our nakedness, our FLESH, we are born a) aware of our flesh and its needs and b) not the least bit aware of God.
And you see, this is why God loves every person who was ever born. Think about your own kids (if you have some). You love them .. they are "mini-You's," right? With so much potential -- if they will only obey you, right? But we don't, do we.
As to the question: If I understand you right, you don't know the difference between your soul and your spirit. Your soul consists of your "heart" and your "conscience." These combined make up your character, your personality, who you are. These come from things LEARNED through living day-by-day. We are not born with comprehension of anything -- neither good nor evil. Therefore, your conscience cannot be guilty of sin, can it? And your heart cannot desire to sin .. so there is no "sin nature" either. Does that answer your question?
skypair