Female Pastors

[aspen]

You seriously cannot believe Jesus barred women from among his Twelve Apostles? After everything pagans taught Jesus about about equality between men and women!

Where does it say anything about Jesus barring women from being one of the twelve? I seriously believe that Jesus made His mother the first Christian and trusted a women to be the first to learn and share the truth of His resurrection - not sure how people have dismissed these examples for so many years.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Where does it say anything about Jesus barring women from being one of the twelve? I seriously believe that Jesus made His mother the first Christian and trusted a women to be the first to learn and share the truth of His resurrection - not sure how people have dismissed these examples for so many years.

I think you might find it's the case that the woman came early that morning to finish the embalming of Jesus body. Hence, the reason they saw him first.

 

[aspen]

I think you might find it's the case that the woman came early that morning to finish the embalming of Jesus body. Hence, the reason they saw him first.

Seriously? You claim to believe the Bible is inspired by God and proclaims the truth, but Mary just happened to show up? Lol, did Jesus simply have restless leg syndrome too?

Believing in coincidences in the Bible sounds a bit too liberal for my taste

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Seriously? You claim to believe the Bible is inspired by God and proclaims the truth, but Mary just happened to show up? Lol, did Jesus simply have restless leg syndrome too?

Believing in coincidences in the Bible sounds a bit too liberal for my taste

The point I was trying to get across is someone would have seen him first, but given the girls had a job to finish-in their minds- afforded them the opportunity to see christ first. After all, just like Phoebe, they served and provided the important info to the Apostles.

 

[aspen]

The point I was trying to get across is someone would have seen him first, but given the girls had a job to finish-in their minds- afforded them the opportunity to see christ first. After all, just like Phoebe, they served and provided the important info to the Apostles.

So Jesus must have in trusted them with sharing the most important event in the history of the world for a reason. This is not a coincidence. The very fact that the women's names were included means that their role in the story was important. They were the first evangelists.

 

[101G]

To aspen2, Greeting from the Lord Jesus.
I seriously cannot believe women are barred from the pulpit in the majority of Christian churches. After everything Jesus taught about equality between men and women! I can understand Paul being a former Pharisee and a man of his time, but we really have no excuse.

that's why I posted this topic, for the body of Christ to be edified. and to vindicate the apostle Paul good name. God put information right in front of our faces and we don't even see it. but I thank the Lord Jesus for his GRACE, and his MERCY, he overlooked my faults, and gave me knowledge of this topic. the apostle said, "study to show thyself approve". if men and women would study, we would have less debates, and more harmony in the churches. yes, true the apostle Paul was a Pharisee, but when he meet the Lord Jesus, he was born again. just as we must be born again. we must re-new our minds.

May the Lord Jesus richly bless you.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

So Jesus must have in trusted them with sharing the most important event in the history of the world for a reason. This is not a coincidence. The very fact that the women's names were included means that their role in the story was important. They were the first evangelists.

I agree with everything except the crossed out bits. Remember, Jesus showed himself to the Apostles, irrespective what the women passed on. I'm not saying seeing the LORD isn't significant in its own right, and a privilege but we ought not read into it more than what's required to understand the scripture.

 

[aspen]

I agree with everything except the crossed out bits. Remember, Jesus showed himself to the Apostles, irrespective what the women passed on. I not saying seeing the LORD isn't significant in its own right, and a privilege but we ought not read into it more than what's required to understand the scripture.

Um who did Jesus reveal Himself to BEFORE the disciples. His mother.

 

[101G]

2 Polt, greeting
The ground has been covered. All that's left to do is recover the same ground. A lot of people aren't up to that.
well then, take the teacher advice, Gamaliel.
Acts 5:33 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them. 34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; 35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. 36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. 37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God".

"if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God" that's good advice
You say phoebe is a pastor, even though the two words used to describe her are never used in the Bible in reference to any person who is a known leader. You say Phoebe is a pastor, even though we're given no details of her activities that show her leading. All you have is Paul's compliments to Phoebe. You make assumptions about the literal meaning of those compliments and you also ignore the possibility of non-literal use of those terms. If this were a court of law, you might have enough evidence for a trial, but not enough to win the case. Even if Phoebe, called, in the same word for the person who brings drinks to the table at a restaurant, where a "pastor", she'd be an exception to the rule. You don't build principles from exceptions or isolated cases, unless you're being irrational. And, you take irrationality to extremes, believing Phoebe to rule over Paul. Sorry, 101G, Paul is the top of the foodchain. He corrects even Peter.

Paul is top of the food chain?. this is a fleshly mind to think like this.
1 Corinthians 15:9 "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed".
see your foolish assumption, listen, Mark 9:35 "And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all". did you get that "top of the food chain". you have a long way to go, and much to learn.
Acts 6:2 And the Twelve summoned the body of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to deacon tables." If Phoebe is a leader, she's the only leader in the Bible called a deacon.

LOL, again you shot your own self in the foot. did not the scripture you fought with was that a DEACON is to be the husband of one wife. see how idiotic your fight was. now she's a DEACON, but not a couple of days ago. see how fake your fight was.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Um who did Jesus reveal Himself to BEFORE the disciples. His mother.

Oh, I get it. It was mommy. So now we can adore mary and maybe the other saints to. Spoken like a true catholic.

 

[101G]

2 jb my Hermeneutics experts, or so called, anyway, greeting.
Again, you evaded Polt's question(s). Why can't you reciprocate a simple and straightforward question as it is given? i.e.

I did answer, and I see you didn't get it either, LOL. what's wrong?, can't read English, or understand it. use your Hermeneutics, it might just help you.

now your other respond.
I agree with everything except the crossed out bits. Remember, Jesus showed himself to the Apostles, irrespective what the women passed on. I'm not saying seeing the LORD isn't significant in its own right, and a privilege but we ought not read into it more than what's required to understand the scripture.

jb, you said don't read more into the scripture. here you did just the opposite, you took out, "irrespective what the women passed on". out of your own mouth you lie twice. that's called a double tongue. what did the apostle say about this very thing?, Romans 2:19 "And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?".

 

[aspen]

Oh, I get it. It was mommy. So now we can adore mary and maybe the other saints to. Spoken like a true catholic.

Thanks for the compliment. I would never demand that you adore anyone but God - besides I am noticing that you are having a hard enough time recognizing the important ministry and role that women played in the early church - you are about as far away from the heresy of adoring women as possible.

 

[101G]

to jb, we can add a topic called "tit for that", if you want to throw mud. now, do you have anything constructive to the topic at hand?. if not, start the tit for that topic. but respect the topic at hand. thanks in advance.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

2 jb my Hermeneutics experts, or so called, anyway, greeting.
Again, you evaded Polt's question(s). Why can't you reciprocate a simple and straightforward question as it is given? i.e.

I did answer, and I see you didn't get it either, LOL. what's wrong?, can't read English, or understand it. use your Hermeneutics, it might just help you.

now your other respond.
I agree with everything except the crossed out bits. Remember, Jesus showed himself to the Apostles, irrespective what the women passed on. I'm not saying seeing the LORD isn't significant in its own right, and a privilege but we ought not read into it more than what's required to understand the scripture.

jb, you said don't read more into the scripture. here you did just the opposite, you took out, "irrespective what the women passed on". out of your own mouth you lie twice. that's called a double tongue. what did the apostle say about this very thing?, Romans 2:19 "And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?".

You don't have a clue what your saying. Carry On.

Thanks for the compliment. I would never demand that you adore anyone but God - besides I am noticing that you are having a hard enough time recognizing the important ministry and role that women played in the early church - you are about as far away from the heresy of adoring women as possible.

No, it's quite clear what role they played and are commanded to play, even today. It's you and the other effeminate males that have put woman on a pedestal to worship. You lot most certainly do fit into your current age. A SIGN of the TIMES one might say.

 

[aspen]

You don't have a clue what your saying. Carry On.

No, it's quite clear what role they played and are commanded to play, even today. It's you and the other effeminate males that have put woman on a pedestal to worship. You lot most certainly do fit into your current age. A SIGN of the TIMES one might say.

Ah so your response is to call me a girl? Now I see what I am dealing with....head on back to the playground, you seem to be a bit lost here.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Ah so your response is to call me a girl? Now I see what I am dealing with....head on back to the playground, you seem to be a bit lost here.

Effeminacy describes traits in a human male that are more often associated with feminine nature, behaviour, mannerisms, style orgender roles rather than masculine nature, behaviour, mannerisms, style or roles.
It is a term frequently applied to womanly behavior, demeanor, style and appearance displayed by a male, typically used implying criticism or ridicule of this behaviour (as opposed to, for example, merely describing a male as feminine, which can be non-judgmental). The term effeminate is most often used by people who subscribe to the widespread view that males should display traditional masculine traits and behaviours.

Etymology
Effeminacy comes from the Latin ex which is "out," and femina which means woman; it means "to be like a woman." The Latin term ismollities, meaning "softness."
In ancient Koine Greek, the word for effeminate is kinaidos (cinaedus in its Latinized form), or malakoi. A man "whose most salient feature was a supposedly "feminine" love of being sexually penetrated by other men." (Winkler, 1990).

Rome
Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of women, certain trades, and too much fondness with women were all deemed effeminate traits in Roman society. Taking an inappropriate sexual position—passive or "bottom" (kinaidos, see above)—in same-gender sex was considered effeminate and unnatural. Touching the head with a finger and wearing a goatee were also considered effeminate (Holland, 2004).

For Roman men masculinity also meant self-control, even in the face of painful emotions, illnesses, or death. Cicero says, "There exist certain precepts, even laws, that prohibit a man from being effeminate in pain," (Fin. 2.94) and Seneca adds, "If I must suffer illness, it will be my wish to do nothing out of control, nothing effeminately." (Epist. 67.4)


Finally,

Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. 1Co 16:13​

 

[aspen]

So now you turn to Roman culture as an example of how to be a real man? You are full of contradictions tonight - lol. Cicero? I wonder if you could find a better example of a Roman pagan? I doubt it.

Why do you hate women so much, JB?

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

So now you turn to Roman culture as an example of how to be a real man? You are full of contradictions tonight - lol. Cicero? I wonder if you could find a better example of a Roman pagan? I doubt it.

Why do you hate women so much, JB?

Try and work on your comprehension skills, but for now.



Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. 1Co 16:13

 

[101G]

to jb, greeting, in the name of the Lord Jesus.

since your co-Hermeneutics experts agrees, that our sister Phebe is a DEACON, quote, "If Phoebe is a leader, she's the only leader in the Bible called a deacon".

now jb, since the bible call her a Servant/DEACON which is the same Greek word.
#1. do you deny the scriptures, Y/N. as you say only a YES or NO will do :blink:

#2. if no, please explain how our sister can be a Servant/Deacon, when the scriptures say 1 Timothy 3:12 "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well". jb please use your Hermeneutics on this scripture.

I'll be waiting for your answer, or your interpretation.

 

[jiggyfly]

I have seen these kinds of religious debates many times and it is argued back and forth. IMO there is always going to be an argument when it comes to authority, who's in charge, who can do what, and who can't among religious thinkers. This was a common incident among the disciples during Christ's ministry on earth. But according to Christ Jesus we are all brothers and sisters on the same level. John's letters also indicate that we are a family of brothers and sisters. So IMO it is a very carnal/religious thing to argue authority when Christ said the one who is chief is the servant to everyone, unlike the religious system that has it totally backwards, where the chief is up front, elevated, and revered. IMO those who are spiritually mature have no need to be recognized as one who is "in charge".

When people begin to speak of the ministry gifts as "offices" or "positions" of authority (as misinterpreted by KJV) it is a good indication of the need for and lack of spiritual growth.

If we are of the right spirit and thinking, instead of fighting with each other to gain an elevated position we would help each other with the struggle to grow and mature as a brother or sister would.

This is the work of an elder in the family of God.

11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.
Eph 4:11-16 (NLT)

So it is easy to see it is the responsibility of every person who is spiritually matured to help those who are not, to grow until they are. To make this a position or office is to depersonalize it and take away from the truth that we are indeed a family and it should be evidence in our daily lives, especially in the lives of those who are genuinely matured spiritually.