Female Pastors

[Selene]

I said that men are the head of the family just as the pastor or priest is the head of God's family on earth.

this is Just what I'm talking about.
JESUS is the HEAD of the CHURCH. not no man

And it was God who chose the sons of Aaron and Levi to be priests. He did not choose their daughters. And it was Christ Himself who chose men to be His Apostles. None of His Apostles were women. God and Christ are the authority, and who God and Christ chose is what we should follow. They chose men to be priests and shepherds of the flock.

 

[101G]

are you saying woman have no authority in the church?.
I want you to think about this for a few minute before you answer it

 

[Selene]

are you saying woman have no authority in the church?.
I want you to think about this for a few minute before you answer it

Where in scripture did God give authority to a woman to be a shepherdess to His Church??

 

[101G]

"Women, in Leadership Roles"
Lets see what the scriptures say?.​

Study Scripture: Philippians 4 2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".

Teaching Scripture: 1Thess 5:12 "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"
lets walk through this verse with the wisdom of Christ".

Commentary: Which labour among you. There is no reason to suppose, as many have done, that the apostle here refers to different classes of ministers, he rather refers to different parts of the work which the same ministers perform. The first is, that they "labour"--that is, evidently, in preaching the gospel. where it occurs twice; 1Cor 15:10; 1Cor 16:16. The word is one which properly expresses wearisome toil, and implies that the office of preaching is one that demands constant industry. And are over you in the Lord. That is, by the appointment of the Lord, or under his direction. They are not absolute sovereigns, but are themselves subject to one who is over them--the Lord Jesus. On the word here rendered "are over you," (προισταμενους) Rom 12:8, where it is translated ruleth.
Now lets reinforce this with a second scripture: 1Cor 16:16 "That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth".
Commentary: and laboureth; in the Lord's vineyard, in the word and doctrine, for the good of souls, and the glory of Christ: for such are worthy of double honour, and ought to be valued and esteemed for their works' sake, and submitted to in everything that is according to the rules of the Gospel. get that again.


Please read all of your commentary on this scripture and those listed above.
Now that it is establish that those who, "Labour", in the Lord is over you, or ruleth.
knowing this, Lets look at 1Thess 5:12 again, but more closely, "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"
The word over is very important
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v.
1. to stand before
2. (in rank) to preside
3. (by implication) to practise
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule
Root(s): G4253, G2476
Now lets look at various translation: 1Thess 5:12
Amplified: Now also we beseech you, brethren, get to know those who labor among you [recognize them for what they are, acknowledge and appreciate and respect them all]—your leaders who are over you in the Lord and those who warn and kindly reprove and exhort you. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
KJV: And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
NLT: Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord's work. They work hard among you and warn you against all that is wrong. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: We ask you too, my brothers, to get to know those who work so hard among you. They are your spiritual leaders to keep you on the right path. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Wuest: Now, we request of you, brethren, that you recognize those for what they are and as entitled to the respect due them who work to the point of weariness among you and who are in authority over you in the Lord and admonish you,
Young's Literal: And we ask you, brethren, to know those labouring among you, and leading you in the Lord, and admonishing you,

so from the above translation, we can perfectly see that those who labor in the Lord, "HAVE THE RULE OVER YOU". other words they are as you say leaders. please re-read these verses again.
knowing the definition of, "over", This word is very important
now to Roman 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also".
look at the word, "succourer", here. according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries it's the word,
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.
1. a patroness, i.e. assistant
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291
The KJV renders it here as succourer, Why?. this word succourer, (G4368 προστάτις prostatis), is the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, which is for the male in that position. see above, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v. the Word of God must be searched, and research, to find the truth

Now in making that connection, these are those who, "RULE OVER YOU", those meaning the male, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, and the female, G4368 προστάτις prostatis, they have the, "RULE OVER YOU, because their appointment is from the Lord. a succourer, (G4368 προστάτις prostatis), in the book of Romans, was Phebe our sister, which is also a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea. she was a succourer of the Apostle Paul, the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, Male. now knowing that, lets go to the book of Philippians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life". here the Apostle Paul makes it clear that these women Euodias,and Syntyche, who Labour with him in the Gospel, are not just mere relief worker of the poor, but minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. knowing this, meaning you don't have to go and find this out, I have done the leg work for you, knowing this lets see others female ministers of the gospel.
Romans 16:7 " Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me". , Romans 16:12 "Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord. all of these are women Labours in the Lord.

Hope this help.
Love and Peace
101G

 

[Axehead]

We are all priests unto God, today. There is neither male nor female in Christ. A "Pastor" is someone with a Shepherd's heart. Many men and women in the Church have a Shepherd's heart and look out for the sheep with love and care.

I think it is important to differentiate between the realities of the Body of Christ and men's religious organizations.

The problem with this topic is you always have those who are in the religious system that view the Church as a top down organization of male hierarchy. They model their organization after some concepts in the OT and some worldly concepts regarding corporate organizatons of hierarchy.

But, in the true body of Christ it is a flat organization with Jesus Christ being the Head and all of us as members. The "greatest" are the servants of all. All are brothers and sisters in the Lord and Christ dwells in all. The Shepherd dwells in all, male and female. And if the Shepherd dwells in all, then many have the Shepherd's heart in caring and looking after others spiritual welfare.

We know that in many religious organizations the rule is that men can only be a part of their hierarchy. But, let's talk about the reality of the Body of Christ and not men's religious organizations.

There are countless number of brethren who have an earthly gender of female who are wonderful shepherds. That is an indisputable fact and many testimonies can be offered of this fact through the centuries. Why is it a surprise? Pastor is nothing more than someone with a Shepherd's heart. Men have made it an administrative and spiritual position in their hierarchical organizations.

Women pastor other women all the time. They head up orphanages and pastor children. There is only one Head of the Church and we are all members.


1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. (we have things backwards today. We bestow more honor on the most educated and best looking, and most skilled orators).

1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care (sounds like pastoring one another, to me) one for another.

Let's talk about this: Can sisters have a calling of a shepherd's heart whereby the Lord uses them to "pastor" a part of the body. It seems it has been done many times.

Gladys Alward
Jackie Pullinger
Charlotte "Lottie" Moon
Mary Slessor
Elisabeth Elliot


Mabel Francis - Another early-twentieth-century mission leader who strongly affirmed women in evangelistic outreach was A.B. Simpson, founder of the C&MA. Among the single women who were known for their remarkable service was Mabel Francis (1880-1975). In the summer of 1909, just one year before the Edinburgh Conference, Francis sailed for Japan. In 1913, her brother joined her in the work, and together they planted twenty churches. Later her widowed sister joined her—a partnership that lasted nearly forty years together: Mabel as evangelist, Anne as teacher.

During the Great Depression when other Alliance missionaries were forced to return home due to shortage of funds, Mabel and Anne stayed on, subsisting on meager gifts sent by family and friends. Too poor to purchase a bus ticket, her mode of travel was bicycling. “O Lord,” she remembered praying, “where are the men who ought to be riding these bicycles up and down these trails?” In the early years she envied any woman missionary who had a husband.

These and countless other women have proven that Christ can do great things through anyone who is willing. It is Christ that PASTORS, anyway. We are but vessels (containers) of His glory.

Men have used religion to marginalize and control not only sisters but other brothers as well.

Axehead

Well, what's a girl to do when the men won't answer the Lord's call and the Lord calls upon her?

Fortunately, it is the Spirit of Christ working in us to will and perform His good pleasure and not our gender.

 

[101G]

2 Axehead, greeting,
The problem with this topic is you always have those who are in the religious system that view the Church as a top down organization of male hierarchy. They model their organization after some concepts in the OT and some worldly concepts regarding corporate organizatons of hierarchy.

Amen.

 

[Selene]

"Women, in Leadership Roles"
Lets see what the scriptures say?.​

Study Scripture: Philippians 4 2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".

Teaching Scripture: 1Thess 5:12 "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"
lets walk through this verse with the wisdom of Christ".

Commentary: Which labour among you. There is no reason to suppose, as many have done, that the apostle here refers to different classes of ministers, he rather refers to different parts of the work which the same ministers perform. The first is, that they "labour"--that is, evidently, in preaching the gospel. where it occurs twice; 1Cor 15:10; 1Cor 16:16. The word is one which properly expresses wearisome toil, and implies that the office of preaching is one that demands constant industry. And are over you in the Lord. That is, by the appointment of the Lord, or under his direction. They are not absolute sovereigns, but are themselves subject to one who is over them--the Lord Jesus. On the word here rendered "are over you," (προισταμενους) Rom 12:8, where it is translated ruleth.
Now lets reinforce this with a second scripture: 1Cor 16:16 "That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth".
Commentary: and laboureth; in the Lord's vineyard, in the word and doctrine, for the good of souls, and the glory of Christ: for such are worthy of double honour, and ought to be valued and esteemed for their works' sake, and submitted to in everything that is according to the rules of the Gospel. get that again.


Please read all of your commentary on this scripture and those listed above.
Now that it is establish that those who, "Labour", in the Lord is over you, or ruleth.
knowing this, Lets look at 1Thess 5:12 again, but more closely, "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"
The word over is very important
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v.
1. to stand before
2. (in rank) to preside
3. (by implication) to practise
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule
Root(s): G4253, G2476
Now lets look at various translation: 1Thess 5:12
Amplified: Now also we beseech you, brethren, get to know those who labor among you [recognize them for what they are, acknowledge and appreciate and respect them all]—your leaders who are over you in the Lord and those who warn and kindly reprove and exhort you. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
KJV: And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
NLT: Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord's work. They work hard among you and warn you against all that is wrong. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: We ask you too, my brothers, to get to know those who work so hard among you. They are your spiritual leaders to keep you on the right path. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Wuest: Now, we request of you, brethren, that you recognize those for what they are and as entitled to the respect due them who work to the point of weariness among you and who are in authority over you in the Lord and admonish you,
Young's Literal: And we ask you, brethren, to know those labouring among you, and leading you in the Lord, and admonishing you,

so from the above translation, we can perfectly see that those who labor in the Lord, "HAVE THE RULE OVER YOU". other words they are as you say leaders. please re-read these verses again.
knowing the definition of, "over", This word is very important
now to Roman 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also".
look at the word, "succourer", here. according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries it's the word,
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.
1. a patroness, i.e. assistant
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291
The KJV renders it here as succourer, Why?. this word succourer, (G4368 προστάτις prostatis), is the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, which is for the male in that position. see above, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v. the Word of God must be searched, and research, to find the truth

Now in making that connection, these are those who, "RULE OVER YOU", those meaning the male, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, and the female, G4368 προστάτις prostatis, they have the, "RULE OVER YOU, because their appointment is from the Lord. a succourer, (G4368 προστάτις prostatis), in the book of Romans, was Phebe our sister, which is also a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea. she was a succourer of the Apostle Paul, the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, Male. now knowing that, lets go to the book of Philippians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life". here the Apostle Paul makes it clear that these women Euodias,and Syntyche, who Labour with him in the Gospel, are not just mere relief worker of the poor, but minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. knowing this, meaning you don't have to go and find this out, I have done the leg work for you, knowing this lets see others female ministers of the gospel.
Romans 16:7 " Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me". , Romans 16:12 "Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord. all of these are women Labours in the Lord.

Hope this help.
Love and Peace
101G

A woman can be an assistant in the Church just like Phoebe was, and she can be a disciple. But there is nothing in the Old Testament or New Testament books showing that women were ordained as priests......to lead the Church. Where in the New Testament is a woman ordained as a priest?? As a matter of fact, the New Testament specifically calls the office of bishop and the office of deacon a "male" office.

1 Timothy 3:1-2 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:10-12 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being [found] blameless. Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

 

[101G]

again did you read the topic?. but you want to go with the Bishop. OK, If a man desire the office of a bishop. what if a woman desire the office of a Bishop. I think you better see what Gender the word Bishop carry. go to the blue letter bible and see the strong # G1985 and G1984, and see what the gender of these word are?.
now if a woman wants to be a Bishop, I'll hold that for another topic, (smile).

 

[Selene]

again did you read the topic?. but you want to go with the Bishop. OK, If a man desire the office of a bishop. what if a woman desire the office of a Bishop. I think you better see what Gender the word Bishop carry. go to the blue letter bible and see the strong # G1985 and G1984, and see what the gender of these word are?.
now if a woman wants to be a Bishop, I'll hold that for another topic, (smile).

And if you look up the Greek word for "priest" in the Blue letter Bible, it is a masculine noun, and you are saying that a woman can be a priest?? So, what difference does the Greek gender mean?? The word of God in scripture is specific In other words, the office of Bishop and the office of deacon specifically says that it's a male position and one does not need to look up the Greek word for "husbands" to figure out that husbands meant a male.

 

[101G]

This is what I'm trying to get you to see, LISTEN, once again, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".

Now, I ask you a question, if you're a NEW Creature in Christ Jesus. again, I said in Christ Jesus, are you male or female, which one?. think twice before you answer.

 

[Selene]

This is what I'm trying to get you to see, LISTEN, once again, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".

Now, I ask you a question, if you're a NEW Creature in Christ Jesus. again, I said in Christ Jesus, are you male or female, which one?. think twice before you answer.

To answer your question, as a new creature in Christ, I am a female. The old person in me is gone, and the new person in me now exists.

When the Bible says that there is neither Greek or Jew nor male or female, it is simply saying that all are equal in the eyes of God. God does not see race or nationality or gender. He sees us as human beings who are equal as human beings but play different roles in the body of Christ.

 

[101G]

you're still in the flesh. and by being in the flesh, scripture, Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed".

Good, now, excuse my language, I'm speaking Spiritual, are you circumcise?, I hope so. so what's the difference?. is your circumcise of the heart. then you're a priest. why?. in order to get into the Church we all must come the same way, circumcise. the church in the wilderness was circumcise in the flesh (that's OLD TESTAMENT PRIEST). but the Church at Zion is circumcise in the spirit, (THIS IS NEW TESTAMENT). so what's the problem now?. are you not sanctified in the Spirit. if not then you're still a female, both in body and in the world. sorry, I guess you're right you're not a priest, (smile).
so be blessed. good day.

 

[Polt]

This is what I'm trying to get you to see, LISTEN, once again, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".

Now, I ask you a question, if you're a NEW Creature in Christ Jesus. again, I said in Christ Jesus, are you male or female, which one?. think twice before you answer.

101G, your posts are abusive of scripture and otherwise divisive. It's not legitimate for you take take phrases like "new creature" or "one in Christ" and exploit them for arguments they have nothing to do with and in the process to contradict both the word and example of scripture.

 

[101G]

2 Polt, greeting
101G, your posts are abusive of scripture and otherwise divisive. It's not legitimate for you take take phrases like "new creature" or "one in Christ" and exploit them for arguments they have nothing to do with and in the process to contradict both the word and example of scripture.

the truth hurt. and two, no argument here. just read the topic, if you agree fine, if not, fine too.
if the truth is abusive, then you took it that way.
be bless.

 

[mjrhealth]

God has no problems with female teachers, it is just people who have trouble with God not agreeing with them.

Yes the truth hurts, that is why so few Go to Jesus.

In all His Love

 

[Foreigner]

101G, you are missing the point completely. Selene has done a wonderful job of both explaining and justifying her position.
You keep making the answer you want a moving target.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear 1,

Female pastors are a bad idea. Not built for the job.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[IanLC]

All I am going to state is that I have served under a male and female pastor. My current pastor is a female. I prefer male leadership who are guided by the Holy Spirit and live holy and preach the Word yet I believe that God can call women to preach and pastor. My current pastor who is a female is subject to the male distruct elder and the Board of Elders and Bishops who are men. My current pastor preaches the Word of God with boldness and does not hold back, she is a bonified HOLINESS preacher and is Holy Ghost filled and lives holy. She is the only woman I will and can serve under. Im not going to agrue with her or anyone about their calling that is between them and God. Yet I see her fruit and I believe that God honor's His word and regardless of who is preaching it as long as they are living holy God will honor HIS WORD not the person. If God can use a rock, rooster, and an ass why can't He use a woman? I dont believe in male nor female pastors or preachers it's the HOLY GHOST that is speaking and they are just the vessels!

 

[101G]

2 UHCAIan, greeting.

I don't believe in male nor female pastors or preachers it's the HOLY GHOST that is speaking and they are just the vessels!

thank you, if people just read the scripture.
I'm willing to bet most didn't really, really, really, read the topic. their engrain taught belief by men doctrine kick in when they saw the topic heading only. I base this on the non scriptural responses.

but it is interesting, I mean the non scriptural responses. I willl not answer such responses. I'll let them get their Ignorance off their spiritual shoulders.

Love and Peace
101G

 

[Polt]

If God can use a rock, rooster, and an ass why can't He use a woman? I dont believe in male nor female pastors or preachers it's the HOLY GHOST that is speaking and they are just the vessels!

It's not whether God can or can't use a woman. It's not whether a woman can or can't do the job. It's that God chose to reserve the priesthood to men.

The Bible limits the job of pastor to men. But, you have a woman preacher who says that God chose her to be pastor. Sorry, I'm sola scriptura. BTW, with a female pastor, you're obviously not Catholic. How do you explain Pentecostal Catholics? What do you think one of them would say about the Holy Ghost on the subject of praying to Mary? Yep, they're just following the Holy Ghost, too. So, why aren't you moved to pray to Mary?