Female Pastors

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Females can be disciples, but they cannot be pastors or priests. In the Old Testament, all the priests were men. In the New Testament, Jesus chose 12 Apostles from his many disciples. Some of those disciples were women, but Jesus chose all men. Only a man can be a pastor or priest because they are the shepherds who takes care of the flock. There are no shephardess and no priestresses in Judaism or in the Old Testament books. Men are called to be the protectors of the flock and to be the Head of God's family on earth. Women are not the head, but represent the Church who must follow her Head, who is Christ.

Well stated.


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Selene is correct in her understanding of the scripture, in both Old and new testament. The fact there may be a play on words and twisting of scripture here doesn't surprise me one wit. One interpretation of the facts, not many. The fact that we have in these last days Jezabels & Ahab's who distort and compromise the scriptures is appalling.

But like all false teachers - if they persist - will have their part in the lake of fire, although some are ordained unto this end.

Male and female distinction is not made void since the cross and will continue to the consummation of all things in God. It's a gross heresy that is played out by 'effeminate and corrupt men' and 'feminist woman', who seek to make merchandise of the saints and push their own agenda.


.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Why would God want to use a woman? Seems to me the underlying assumption of people who wish to assert that women can hold office is that they could do it as well as men. Since when has God been concerned with the equality of the sexes? Never, to my biblical knowledge. The only time I know of in the Old Testament was with Deborah and that was to the shame of Barrack. God is really interested in the type of picture that is portrayed through the order that He ordained in both testaments and I never see a godly woman in a position of such authority. This spirit which wants to see women be equal to or even dominate men is seen in the book of revelation and it is quite disturbing.

I believe that those who wish to assert that women can be teachers and fulfill other positions of leadership in the church are simply in rebellion to the way God set it up. Bottom line is that women were put under submission to men for a reason and that reason has not changed. Eve was deceived and all her daughters are vulnerable in this way and therefore they should not have positions of authority within the church. A woman's glory is in her long hair which is a sign of submission. Western women have, by and large, forgotten what true submission is until they bridle at the thought of calling their men lord as Sara did. Instead of thinking that God has somehow changed His mind on this subject I think it would be better for ladies to concentrate on taking their God given place beside and under submission to men. Perhaps if they did this then the men would feel more empowered to take their position of authority. Perhaps everything would work much better.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Dear All,

Why would God want to use a woman? Seems to me the underlying assumption of people who wish to assert that women can hold office is that they could do it as well as men. Since when has God been concerned with the equality of the sexes? Never, to my biblical knowledge. The only time I know of in the Old Testament was with Deborah and that was to the shame of Barrack. God is really interested in the type of picture that is portrayed through the order that He ordained in both testaments and I never see a godly woman in a position of such authority. This spirit which wants to see women be equal to or even dominate men is seen in the book of revelation and it is quite disturbing.

I believe that those who wish to assert that women can be teachers and fulfill other positions of leadership in the church are simply in rebellion to the way God set it up. Bottom line is that women were put under submission to men for a reason and that reason has not changed. Eve was deceived and all her daughters are vulnerable in this way and therefore they should not have positions of authority within the church. A woman's glory is in her long hair which is a sign of submission. Western women have, by and large, forgotten what true submission is until they bridle at the thought of calling their men lord as Sara did. Instead of thinking that God has somehow changed His mind on this subject I think it would be better for ladies to concentrate on taking their God given place beside and under submission to men. Perhaps if they did this then the men would feel more empowered to take their position of authority. Perhaps everything would work much better.

Blessings,

Justin

If we would only submit to Christ as he did to his father. Spiritual Authority is an important topic and how can we side with the principle of Satan(rebellion) and claim Jesus as Lord.



"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity(lawlesssness). MT 7:22-23



Therefore brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall: 2 Peter 1:10

 

[mjrhealth]

It has nothing to do with women or men, it has everything to do with being led by the spirit, and so few christians are, What was it the bible says,

1Co 3:3 For you are yet carnal. For in that there is among you envyings and strife and divisions, are you not carnal, and do you not walk according to men?

God can use anyone who obeys the leading of teh Holy Spirirt, it is just that very few christians do, and not many pastors do either, yet me nare willing to listen to them because teh carry a title,
The sad thing is, if a women speaks to you teh truth and you reject it, it is not her you have rejected but teh one who sent her, Jesus, for He is the truth,. But thtas ok, you will have many friends with you all believing teh same lie.

In all His Love

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

It has nothing to do with women or men, it has everything to do with being led by the spirit, and so few christians are, What was it the bible says,

1Co 3:3 For you are yet carnal. For in that there is among you envyings and strife and divisions, are you not carnal, and do you not walk according to men?

God can use anyone who obeys the leading of teh Holy Spirirt, it is just that very few christians do, and not many pastors do either, yet me nare willing to listen to them because teh carry a title,
The sad thing is, if a women speaks to you teh truth and you reject it, it is not her you have rejected but teh one who sent her, Jesus, for He is the truth,. But thtas ok, you will have many friends with you all believing teh same lie.

In all His Love

What utter garbage. Emotional appeal will not cut the mustard, and your and my opinion with everyone else amounts to nothing. Your humanistic approach to scripture is harmful to your self as well as anyone else who wishes to listen to you not to mention is dishonoring to Christ..

Rather the scripture says: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [2 John 1:9 KJV]

 

[mjrhealth]

Is it my opinion, have you asked God, or is the bible your God.

I dont have an opinion God doesnt care what I think.

In all His Love

 

[101G]

greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ
.
the bible was written to spirit filled Christians, who was walking after the Spirit. comparing Spiritual thing with Spiritual things. so trying to converse
with a fleshly walking Christian, it just want work, until one grows up, it's pointless to respond.

not one of the negative responder, asked, "let look at these scripture Brother". NO, not one. but you can put your two cent worth in quickly. the apostle James said, James 1:19 "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath". and many have done just the opposite. I have look at the comments,
"The Bible limits the job of pastor to men".
"What utter garbage. Emotional appeal will not cut the mustard".
and theses suppose to be men saving souls?. I question it.
and the GIFT of Pastor is now a is a J*O*B. see what I mean, unlearned men, having no knowledge.

in the name of the Lord Jesus, I have presented scripture "FROM" the b*i*b*l*e, and yet you refuse to hear. for the Holy Ghost is correct. "today, if you will hear his voice". Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children". but the Lord know his, for they hear his voice. just as the Jews of OLD, proud, boaster, nobody else can have God but us. (LOL). gentiles are not worthy, until one of their own proved them wrong. Peter to Corneliu, acts chapter 10. I suggest you read it again, with the Holy Spirit.

if I would have posted a topic stating, "I Believe that women can Pastor". then I could have understood the negative responses. but the bible is cleared,
1 Samuel 8:4 "Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 1 Samuel 8:6 "But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them".

the point here is this. you can reject me now, but you will have to face the truth in judgment, and give an account to the Lord for all you have done in the FLESH. Samuel thought that the people rejected him, Oh no, they was rejecting the LORD. the same is today, they REJECT the Lord. our brother Stephen said the same thing, Acts 7:51 "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye". what an indictment.

as to spiritual maturity, in another topic, you're still LITTLE CHILDREN, as the apostle John stated in his epistle. once you decide to walk as SAINTS, instead of SAINTS, or carnal men. then we may discuss the topic.

once more, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I ask you to question any scripture given, be a Berean, see what I have posted is true. this will separate
a disciple from a disciple indeed.

Love and Peace
101G

P.S. Be a Berean. "where there is KNOWLEDGE, stay not Ignorant".

 

[mjrhealth]

The disciples walked in the spirit and they never had a bible, and look what they did. Makes you wonder when the bible replaced God.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

I see your point. We must hear the voice of God through whomever He speaks. I think this is correct but what we are talking about here is whether a woman should have a position of authority in the church which would be a more narrow circumstance of God speaking through someone. As a pastor a woman would have some form of spiritual authority over men and I feel, based upon how I read the scriptures, that this is not wise nor biblical. You could make the case that if she is a prophetess she could be allowed to function in that capacity in the church because we have both Deborah in the Old Testament and the daughters of Philip in the New Testament.

However, and this is where I think you may be on the right track, is it necessary to follow Paul's way of doing things in the New Testament church? Certainly, Paul would not approve of a great deal of what is common place in our churches today. Has the Holy Spirit moved us beyond the form of the first century church and if so does God now give us leave to allow anyone with an anointing to lead and minister to His people? Based upon what we see in churches today apparently so. I doubt many would accuse Joyce Myers of being in rebellion to men. Katherine Kuhlman is still revered by many as a true prophetess of God.

Perhaps as we all start to come into the fulness and stature of Christ the curse that male and female were put under starts to dissipate and we revert back to how we were meant to be had Adam never fallen. Maybe, before sin, men and women were equally able to manifest God in whatever way was needed and without restriction. We are supposed to be nearing the end of the age and certainly that means there will be a great deal of change.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Polt]

The disciples walked in the spirit and they never had a bible, and look what they did. Makes you wonder when the bible replaced God.

The Disciples had a Bible, the Old Testament. The Apostles were taught directly by Jesus. The Bible is the word of God.

greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ
.
the bible was written to spirit filled Christians, who was walking after the Spirit. comparing Spiritual thing with Spiritual things. so trying to converse
with a fleshly walking Christian, it just want work, until one grows up, it's pointless to respond.

101G, your posts are long in theological-sounding rhetoric and indignation but they are devoid of anything from the Bible that directly addresses the issue. To quote Macbeth, your posts are "full of sound and fury, [but] signifying nothing." Everything you say is essentially irrelevant.

Yes, the Bible was written by spirit-filled Christians and they said things like, "If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife." But, you quote irrelevant verses like "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." And, when you're not quoting irrelevant verses, you spouting irrelevant indignation "trying to converse with a fleshly walking Christian... is pointless." All of what you say is pointless.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear 1,

You know, sometimes it is best just to let your points speak for themselves and believe in the force of the truth you state.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[101G]

greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Now that most of the distractors have shot off their mouth with their spiritual ignorance, its time to truly discuss the topic.
I challenge all of the distractors to disprove the scriptures, or the definitions I have used in this topic. again I say, take the challenge and prove the scriptures wrong.

but please re-read the scriptures in the topic first.

do not post what you think. but post your scriptures.

Love and Peace
101G

I'll be back to discuss scriptures, not opinions


the Lovely Rachel a shepherdess
Genesis 29:9 "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them".
see the various translations at the Online Parallel Bible http://bible.cc/genesis/29-9.htm

a woman Shepherd, Hmmmmm, seems like King David got his start KEEPING SHEEP.

 

[Selene]

greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Now that most of the distractors have shot off their mouth with their spiritual ignorance, its time to truly discuss the topic.
I challenge all of the distractors to disprove the scriptures, or the definitions I have used in this topic. again I say, take the challenge and prove the scriptures wrong.

but please re-read the scriptures in the topic first.

do not post what you think. but post your scriptures.

Love and Peace
101G

I'll be back to discuss scriptures, not opinions


the Lovely Rachel a shepherdess
Genesis 29:9 "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them".
see the various translations at the Online Parallel Bible http://bible.cc/genesis/29-9.htm

a woman Shepherd, Hmmmmm, seems like King David got his start KEEPING SHEEP.

Rachel was a shepherd tending to REAL sheep. She was not a priest or even a priestress ruling over the Israelites.

 

[101G]

2 Selene, greeting.
Rachel was a shepherd tending to REAL sheep. She was not a priest or even a priestress ruling over the Israelites. (LOL)
did not Deborah Rule over REAL SHEEP?
Deborah, the "Overseer" to the Church in the wilderness. the first record of gynecocracy.
Judges 4:4 "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time".
Just what do the word Judge here mean?.
According to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries, "JUDGED"
H8199 שָׁפַט shaphat (shaw-fat') v.
1. to judge, i.e. pronounce sentence (for or against)
2. (by implication) to vindicate or punish
3. (by extension) to govern
4. (passively, literally or figuratively) to litigate
[a primitive root]
KJV: + avenge, X that condemn, contend, defend, execute (judgment), (be a) judge(-ment), X needs, plead, reason, rule.
"JUDGED" ( according to (AHLB)Judge co: ? ab: Judgment: Rulings over cases as well as the action of deciding a case".

Well, well, well, this prophetess ruled "OVER" MEN. read your commentaries on the verse Judges 4:4, especially, CLARK commentary. She was essentially Israel’s commander-in-chief, or as I have said, an "Overseer" to the church in he wilderness. and take note, prophet was the highest held position in the old testament. and a woman held it. so what about the new testament, and the LORD God changes not. he's the same, yesterday (the O.T), Today (the N. T.), and for evermore. Hmmm, if God can elevate a woman to the highest position
According to Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions, "JUDGED"
1. to judge, govern, vindicate, punish
a. (Qal)
1. to act as law-giver or judge or governor (of God, man) 1a
b. to rule, govern, judge
1. to decide controversy (of God, man)
2. to execute judgment 1a
c. discriminating (of man) 1a
d. vindicating 1a
e. condemning and punishing 1a
f. at theophanic advent for final judgment
g. (Niphal)
1. to enter into controversy, plead, have controversy together
2. to be judged
h. (Poel) judge, opponent-at-law (participle)

2 Selene,
I see you're stuck on the title priest. 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light".

Now I ask you Selene, is the priest of the Lord Jesus the Christ Church offer, or perform Spiritual duties or Carnal duties, which one.

 

[Selene]

2 Selene, greeting.
Rachel was a shepherd tending to REAL sheep. She was not a priest or even a priestress ruling over the Israelites. (LOL)
did not Deborah Rule over REAL SHEEP?
Deborah, the "Overseer" to the Church in the wilderness. the first record of gynecocracy.
Judges 4:4 "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time".
Just what do the word Judge here mean?.
According to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries, "JUDGED"
H8199 שָׁפַט shaphat (shaw-fat') v.
1. to judge, i.e. pronounce sentence (for or against)
2. (by implication) to vindicate or punish
3. (by extension) to govern
4. (passively, literally or figuratively) to litigate
[a primitive root]
KJV: + avenge, X that condemn, contend, defend, execute (judgment), (be a) judge(-ment), X needs, plead, reason, rule.
"JUDGED" ( according to (AHLB)Judge co: ? ab: Judgment: Rulings over cases as well as the action of deciding a case".
Well, well, well, this prophetess ruled "OVER" MEN. read your commentaries on the verse Judges 4:4, especially, CLARK commentary. She was essentially Israel’s commander-in-chief, or as I have said, an "Overseer" to the church in he wilderness. and take note, prophet was the highest held position in the old testament. and a woman held it. so what about the new testament, and the LORD God changes not. he's the same, yesterday (the O.T), Today (the N. T.), and for evermore. Hmmm, if God can elevate a woman to the highest position
According to Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions, "JUDGED"
1. to judge, govern, vindicate, punish
a. (Qal)
1. to act as law-giver or judge or governor (of God, man) 1a
b. to rule, govern, judge
1. to decide controversy (of God, man)
2. to execute judgment 1a
c. discriminating (of man) 1a
d. vindicating 1a
e. condemning and punishing 1a
f. at theophanic advent for final judgment
g. (Niphal)
1. to enter into controversy, plead, have controversy together
2. to be judged
h. (Poel) judge, opponent-at-law (participle)

2 Selene,
I see you're stuck on the title priest. 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light".
Now I ask you Selene, is the priest of the Lord Jesus the Christ Church offer, or perform Spiritual duties or Carnal duties, which one.

Deborah was not a priest as well. She was not a ruler in Israel. She was a judge.

Judges 4:5 She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went up to her to have their disputes decided.

Deborah was only a judge. The person who ruled the Israelites was a man. His name was Jabin, the King of Canaan (See Judges 4:2). Deborah was not a leader nor a priest.

 

[101G]

2 Selene, is the priest of the Lord Jesus the Christ Church, do they perform Spiritual duties or Carnal duties, which one.

 

[Selene]

2 Selene, is the priest of the Lord Jesus the Christ Church, do they perform Spiritual duties or Carnal duties, which one.

The priests of the Old Testament were all men. They not only preached, but also performed religious rites such as animal sacrifices for the atoning of sins, etc. The priests of the New Testament were all men who not only preached but also performed religious rites, such as the anointing of the sick (See James 5:14). There were no women in the Old or New Testament who did these religious rites except men who were priests.

 

[101G]

2 Selene,
The priests of the Old Testament were all men. They not only preached, but also performed religious rites such as animal sacrifices for the atoning of sins, etc. The priests of the New Testament were all men who not only preached but also performed religious rites, such as the anointing of the sick (See James 5:14). There were no women in the Old or New Testament who did these religious rites except men who were priests.

you gave James 5:14, but what about verse 15. James 5:14 & 15 "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him". so only men have FAITH?, LOL. see how carnal you still are. Listen,

what are the duties of the Priest of the new testament?. 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light".

The church of the Lord Jesus Christ is Spiritual. you don't know that you're a Priest, did you. this tell me that you're still in your sins, you haven't been washed. for you follow after the O.T. system. well the old sacrifice have been done away with. 1 Peter 2:5 "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ". what are these spiritual sacrifices?. here's one of many, Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name". Hmmmmm, ONLY MEN PRAISE GOD?.

got that one down, here's one that covers many, Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service". abstain from SIN.

Selene, this clearly shows that you're still CARNAL.

so now you can't use the priest crutch anymore.

one more time, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".

now that your priest crutch is taken away, what next?


and for your answer,
The person who ruled the Israelites was a man. His name was Jabin, the King of Canaan (See Judges 4:2).
LOL, LOL, LOL. why do you think God raised up JUDGES, in Israel?. Judges 4:6 "And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? 7 And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand". I think you better read the whole chapter and those after. LOL, its unbelievable.

Love and Peace
101G

Selene, you alright?, we'll take this up in the morning, ok?. past my bed time, see ya.
be blessed.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

The disciples walked in the spirit and they never had a bible, and look what they did. Makes you wonder when the bible replaced God.

If we have the "Holy Spirit" and he is all we need, why in the world would God instruct men to pen down certain of his thoughts. It's the equivalent of saying since "we have no need for any man to teach us"-because bible says something like that- why then have Pastors/teachers i.e. shepherds in the church, if we can get along fine without them? Since we have arrived now that we have a 'holy spirit'.

Deborah was not a priest as well. She was not a ruler in Israel. She was a judge.

Judges 4:5 She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went up to her to have their disputes decided.

Deborah was only a judge. The person who ruled the Israelites was a man. His name was Jabin, the King of Canaan (See Judges 4:2). Deborah was not a leader nor a priest.

Well sister it looks like history is repeating itself. LOL, Deborah then Selene now. Why because there's not a wise man(Godly) amongst these lot, who insist on going contrary to scripture.

Haha, they like banging on about things that are plain to see in the word but their sins have clouded their minds. keep up the GOOD WORK sister. SHALOM

 

[mjrhealth]

If we have the "Holy Spirit" and he is all we need, why in the world would God instruct men to pen down certain of his thoughts

Because God knows the hearts and minds of men, arrogant and filled with pride, always resisting the truth, never reaching out to God for the truth, lest He disagrees with them and their ways, and the result is all around us. Even the disciples found the Holy Spirit to be enough, but lie anything,

Num_21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

Few walk after the spirit, few trust God, few have faith in Him, few know Him yet they seem to know all about Him.

There is freedom in Christ but men prefer the bondage of religion, run back to slavery , prefer to be told what to believe than to seek Jesus after the truth, He is the truth.....

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And I saw in a vision as I pondered teh question about too many chains. And I saw God with chains around His feet and hands, dragging bibles behind Him with one over His mouth so that He could not speak.

God never changed, man changed God.

Every time you reject a word from a women who was given it from teh Lord, you reject Him, the one who sent her. I hope pride can see past the foolishness of mens wisdom.

In all his Love