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Featured Final End of the Old Age - 70 AD

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Rocky Wiley, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple

    Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

    Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    Jesus answered one of his disciples.

    Signs of the Close of the Age

    Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

    Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

    Peter, James, John and Andrew wanted to know the sign that would be when the temple would be destroyed.

    Peter, James, John and Andrew wanted to know the sign when the temple would be destroyed.



    Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

    you, meaning the desciples



    Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

    When ye, the disciples.



    Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

    Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

    Take heed deciples, for they will deliver you.



    Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

    The disciples would go unto all the known world.



    Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

    You, ye be delivered up - the deciples.



    Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

    Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    The disciples shall be hated of all men -

    The Abomination of Desolation

    Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    When ye, the disciples, shall see the destruction of the Holy Temple.


    In 70AD the temple was destroyed and many of the disciples saw it.


    Think back to when the children of God were made to roam in the land for 40 years because of their unbelief.


    Jesus was speaking to his disciples, not us. We wouldn’t have seen it for it happen back then.
     
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  2. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.
    The Christian age had just begun. It will be finally completed when Jesus Returns as King of the world.

    AD 70 was only the demolition of the Temple. the final dispersion of the Jews happened in 135 AD
    Those things had no consequence to Christianity, by then spreading far and wide. For example, it is known that Joseph of Arimathea went to England and spread the Gospel. A Bishop, Aristobulos ?, was appointed to the early English Church.
     
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  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    good post Keraz, for it was the beginning of the end. for what was coming was the beginning of the Grace of God, the church age, (the gathering of all into ONE), for God was to dwell in the true temple, not made with stones. 1 Corinthians 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

    not a temple of stone but the TRUE temple the body of Christ.

    PICJAG.
     
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  4. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Jesus represented the new age of grace but to those that would not accept him, they were to wonder in the wilderness for 40 years. Can't you see the similarity of the two. The promise land and the new age of grace.
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
    Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
    Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
    Matthew 24:16 "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"
    Matthew 24:17 "Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:"
    Matthew 24:18 "Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."
    Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"
    Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:"
    Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
    Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

    PICJAG
     
  6. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The Atonement on the Cross was the end of an age and the start of the next one. The next one only lasted for 40 years? Or did it take like 70 years for the church to establish herself? The church did not need 40 years to wander around in the wilderness, did she?
     
  7. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    No.
    The Jews were kicked out of the holy Land, in 135 AD. The Temple destruction was just another step on their way out.
    Now they have returned, but Bible prophecy tells us they will soon be punished by the Lord and only a faithful Christian remnant will survive. Romans 9:27, Isaiah 29:1-4
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The truth is spiritually discerned. Jesus could be speaking to His disciples as well as the Church at one and the same time. Indeed that is how His teachings were generally presented.

    What happened in 70 AD was the destruction of the second temple in Jerusalem and the destruction of the Jews, as well as their dispersion. That's it. The bulk of Bible prophecies have yet to be fulfilled. Therefore Preterism is PURE DELUSION.
     
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  9. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I disagree too. There are still huge block stones weighing many tons standing atop one another at the Jerusalem temple mount area, called the Wailing Wall.

    The Signs Jesus was giving in His Olivet discourse were the Signs of the Seals of Revelation 6, which are Signs to occur only at the very end of this world.


    Why then are some denominations dwelling so much on 70 A.D.?

    1. Because Christ's enemies that have crept into some churches want brethren to believe a lie, that Christ's Kingdom is already manifest on earth today, and that it's just a matter of His coming to fully complete it.

    2. Because claiming the Signs of the end in Christ's Olivet discourse already happened in 70 A.D. is to hide the main Signs of the end Jesus warned His Church about, the greatest sign being that of the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem at the end of this world to setup idol worship over the whole earth.

    3. Because God has caused spiritual blindness upon many, because they don't listen to Him in His Word, but instead go after smooth speeches by men's doctrines.
     
  10. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    If you look at translation of world *G165, you will find it will show it is age not world as we know it.

    Mat 13:39 Mat 13:40 as examples.
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    G165
    aiōn
    ahee-ohn'
    From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past);

    Mat 13:38 The field is the world;
    This 'world' in the above is translated as

    world;G2889
    orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    That idea of using 'age' instead of "world" like the KJV does is a Preterist fallacy. It proves absolutely nothing, simply because the Greek word aion was used in the context of both the idea of ages, and specifically for the very end of this present world. You can get a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and discover this. I also use the Englishman's Concordance to see how a Bible manuscript word was translated into English.

    The question Christ's Apostles asked Jesus in Matthew 24:3 about the end of the world means just that, because they linked the idea of His 2nd coming with it.

    Matt 24:3
    3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

    KJV

    You have fallen into the trap of men's doctrines which attempts to change the simplicity of the Scriptures so as to fit their pet doctrines. Our Lord Jesus specifically warned us against doing that (Matthew 16:5-12).
     
  12. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Can you explain to me these scriptures?

    Son_2:13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
    Jer_24:2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.
    Jer_24:3 Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.
    Jer_24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.

    How do you know which is which?
     
  13. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Here is a trap for your understanding. Thinking we will go through the same things that happened in 70 AD.

    Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    How does the above resemble your end time story. It doesn't, no burning building, no battles, Jesus will just gather up the tares and burn them and then:
    1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    This is the end of the world, but is peaceable for God's people. It is the evil ones that get their due as they will be burned in hell.
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Your argument rest on the fact the disciples did not understand the right question to ask. Should they have used different wording to reflect just what they meant? We know that the book of Isaiah was used quite frequently and there were many copies spread throughout the population. That is what the Ethiopian was reading after visiting Jerusalem. The disciples were aware that Isaiah had written there would be an end to this world, because he prophecies a new heavens and earth. Was Jesus ever shown correcting their questions before he could answer correctly? What is more definitive than a question? It would be an assertion like the "fulness of time". Or the declaration "that time is no more".

    The mind is not conditioned to think about time ending or time changing. It is an earth shattering event like the end of the world that intrigues us. Who follows the rabbit down the rabbit hole? Those who are waiting for the earth to end. Those who hold to times where God has certain influence over people in a different way.

    God took a man out of a group of sons of God after 1000 years and placed this son of God in a Garden and called him Adam. Later God called Abram out of Mesopotamia and called him Abraham. The last event God Himself came to earth and called Himself Yeshua, the Messiah. Known to us as Jesus Christ. That is how God planned out history, yet humans would prefer some cataclysmic event like the end of the "world".
     
  15. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Song of Songs; is a quite different story. Irrelevant to end time prophecy.
    Jeremiah 24 is about the Jews in Babylon. Fulfilled then, by those Jews who kept their faith, who came back to the holy Land after 70 years and by those who did not. They are now the Ashkenazi Jews of today.
    It proves the 'Fig tree' allegory refers to the House of Judah.

    What Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24:32-33, was fulfilled in May 1948.
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Well, you might want to keep reading, like in 1 Thessalonians 5 and 2 Peter 3 where both Apostles warned that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". Peter shows that is the day when God will melt the elements of man's works off this earth. In 1 Thess.5 that melting by God's consuming fire in 2 Peter 3:10 is the "sudden destruction" Paul was talking about from the OT prophets.

    Furthermore, our Lord Jesus gave us His Revelation to give us more detail of things He covered with His disciples at His 1st coming, including the Matt.13 tares event. No one goes into the "lake of fire" until after Christ has returned and reigned with His elect from Jerusalem for a thousand years (Rev.19-20). There will be a certain number of His enemies destroyed (7,000) on the day of His 2nd coming, which is written of in Rev.11 with the coming of the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe.
     
  17. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    You should know that all scripture you have quoted was written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Just as Jesus had told the disciples, some of you shall see the temple be destroyed, it was.
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    That theory does not work, simply because the "day of the Lord" and time of God's consuming fire that is to happen on that same day certainly did not... happen in 70 A.D. The "day of the Lord" events are reserved for the last day of this present world, the day when Jesus will return and gather His Church. God through His OT prophets said it will be a day of destruction upon the wicked, and Peter affirmed that destruction upon the whole earth in 2 Peter 3...

    2 Peter 3:10-12
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    KJV


    That idea of the thief coming is an analogy that Lord Jesus first gave for the time of His 2nd coming. In Revelation 16:15, Jesus said to His Church that He comes "as a thief".

    Matt 24:42-44
    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    KJV


    In 1 Thessalonians 5, the chapter right after Paul explained the events of Christ's coming to gather His Church, Paul pointed to the time of the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night"...

    1 Thess 5:1-4
    5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    KJV


    Paul was pulling from the OT prophets about the "day of the Lord". There is to be a short time of false peace at the very end of this world just prior to Christ's coming to defeat the Antichrist. When those deceived say, "Peace and safety" in that future time, that is when that "sudden destruction" on the "day of the Lord" will comes upon them, "as a thief in the night". So clearly, that has nothing to do with the little destruction event of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., except that Jesus is going to flatten that area of the Mount of Olives when His feet touch down there where He ascended to Heaven from (Acts 1; Zechariah 14).
     
  19. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Jesus gave His Apostle John His Revelation while John was prisoner on Patmos circa 96 A.D., the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. And it's assuredly a major fallacy to try and use 70 A.D. to time date the many prophecies our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave that are clearly for the time of the end of this present world, and on into God's future new earth and new heaven. So I don't care to entertain such silly arguments which are clearly against God's written Word. You might want to check who you've been listening to.
     
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  20. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    I don't listen I read what they have to say, according to the word of God. Sometime it is hard to understand because, like you, I have been fed a lot of Children Sunday School class. As an adult I moved past eating an apple as a sin.
    What I have learned has never been a salvation issue. If you are Christian today, there is nothing I post that would say you are not saved unless you believe that Eve was sexually seduced by a man possessed of the devil.
     
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