First Virus to cause unnatural separation and muzzling of people

[farouk]

I don't see why this has to happen, why healthy people and families have to suffer.
It's only those at risk that need to be careful and isolate. Only a tyranny quarantines the healthy

I'm sorry about your friend and his family's circumstances.

But are you blaming the elderly and the weak such as myself?

cc @Rita.

 

[Enoch111]

It sounds like you are saying this in order to try to downplay the need for virus precautions now. are you, Sir?

You might want to delve into this proposal by a software engineer (no dummy):
The Case For Ending Lockdown
Posted on April 29, 2020

• • Introduction
  • What’s happened so far
  • Section 1: The Basics
  • Section 2: How serious is COVID-19?
  • Section 3: Lockdown-associated Mortality and Destabilization
    • Mass unemployment
    • Addiction and Overdose
    • Social Isolation: more than just correlation?
    • A preventable decline in preventative care
    • General vaccination on the decline?
    • Sometimes lightning does strike twice
    • Debunking the claim that it’s “just the economy”
    • Magnifying inequality
  • Section 4: Pareto Mitigation: An evidence-based approach
  • Section 5: The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions: Censorship and Superstition in the Post-COVID Era
    • How did we get here?
    • Be wary of “hero culture”
    • The Cassandra Effect
    • The Soul of the Country is at Stake
    • Superstition endangers us all
  • Section 6: TL;DR - Simple Words Only
  • (The End) Help us improve this review

The Case For Ending Lockdown

 

[farouk]

@Cristo Rei Is my weakness and vulnerability, and those of others like me, viewed as a mere instrument for your supposed notion of tyranny that you seem to claim oppresses you?

cc @Rita.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I'm sorry about your friend and his family's circumstances.

But are you blaming the elderly and the weak such as myself?

cc @Rita.

@Cristo Rei Is my weakness and vulnerability, and those of others like me, viewed as a mere instrument for your supposed notion of tyranny that you seem to claim oppresses you?

Hang on a minute I didn't blame the weak and elderly at all
Im saying that the government here in Australia has been too strict on lockdown measures given our low numbers

I said that the vulnerable should be quarantined, not everyone else
I see that u have no empathy at all for the lives of others, only your own.
U seem to be justifying the ruining of millions of young lives to protect yours

How many unemployed now in America, over 20 million, to save how many sick and elderly? Should we then shut down every winter for the flu?

 

[farouk]

U seem to be justifying the ruining of millions of young lives to protect yours

Once upon a time a suburb in Germany in WW2 woke up to discover that half the neighbourhood had overnight been shipped to Auschwitz.

One or two people in the neighbourhood shrugged their shoulders and said: 'Who cares?'

cc @Rita , who reports that half the seniors at a local care home have already died of the virus.

 

[farouk]

@Cristo Rei In other words, you seem to be arguing it that it's really the fault of us weak and older folk for not dying fast enough.

cc @Rita

 

[Rita]

Sorry Farouk, I was asleep so couldn’t join in the conversation......

Hopefully this will cause governments and seniors' homes operators to take a good hard look at how they design their facilities and provide care to seniors, rather then having them all crowded into smaller spaces. They may need to install ultra-violet lamps throughout those facilities, improve nutrition, exercise facilities, etc. to change the way seniors are looked after. Let's face it -- the operation of seniors' homes are generally a disgrace.

You are missing the point ........try and hear what I said about the care home, by the way it is a modern, spacious, well run home .......season flu usually takes some residents of the care homes during a season , on average it never exceeds 7 , and that is usually over the whole winter season ( three months ) In the care home in question, that average would be lower as they have only 50 residents.
The Covid-19 entered the care home a month ago - within that four week period 25 residents have died from that virus - if you can not see a difference, then it’s because you don’t want to. It is more contagious, and kills much quicker. So it’s not about the overall figures, it’s about the speed at which it kills and how quickly it spreads........
In the UK alone we have lost 100 hospital workers to the Covid 19 virus, ranging in ages from 24 - 70 years of age ....... one of them was pregnant- the baby survived. That is not normal flu .....
I have never said that I don’t believe that there are things going on behind the scenes ...or that I don’t agree about the press working to create fear ....... BUT it doesn’t make the virus unreal, and not harmful to anyone, as I have already conveyed, we have had many teenagers die from it, healthy ones.

Our lock down was to protect the hospitals, because the virus impacts quickly.......flu doesn’t work as fast and usually takes times before it reaches the lungs and causes pneumonia, this virus is hitting that point much quicker - so you get more people with pneumonia all at once....there are only so many ventilators and hospital beds. The lock down was to stop it spreading as quickly .......to slow it down.

Rita

 

[Cristo Rei]

@Cristo Rei In other words, you seem to be arguing it that it's really the fault of us weak and older folk for not dying fast enough.

U already made this accusation and I already explained the error in your perception.
I made some points and asked some questions but u just avoided them and went back to this false perception

Once upon a time a suburb in Germany in WW2 woke up to discover that half the neighbourhood had overnight been shipped to Auschwitz

One or two people in the neighbourhood shrugged their shoulders and said: 'Who cares?'

cc @Rita , who reports that half the seniors at a local care home have already died of the virus.

And now ur comparing me to Nazi's. Ummm ok whatever. Stay at home, wash your hands and you'll be fine mate.

Trust in the Lord. Can our lives be taken against God's will? I don't think it can
Just a thought anyway, stay safe

 

[Enoch111]

In the UK alone we have lost 100 hospital workers to the Covid 19 virus, ranging in ages from 24 - 70 years of age ....... one of them was pregnant- the baby survived.

Rita, the government of the UK is responsible.

Health expert brands UK's coronavirus response 'pathetic'

Ministers ‘behaving like 19th-century colonialists playing a five-day game of cricket’, says Prof John Ashton

A leading public health expert has launched a devastating critique of the government’s handling of the coronavirus outbreak in the UK, saying it is too little too late, lacks transparency and fails to mobilise the public.

Prof John Ashton, a former regional director of public health for north-west England, lambasted a lack of preparation and openness from the government and contrasted Britain’s response to that of Hong Kong.

“Right at the beginning of February, they [Hong Kong] adopted a total approach to this, which is what we should have done five weeks ago ourselves. They took a decision to work to three principles – of responding promptly, staying alert, working in an open and transparent manner,” he told the Guardian.

“Our lot haven’t been working openly and transparently. They’ve been doing it in a (non) smoke-filled room and just dribbling out stuff. The chief medical officer only appeared in public after about two weeks. Then they have had a succession of people bobbing up and disappearing. Public Health England’s been almost invisible.

Health expert brands UK's coronavirus response 'pathetic'

 

[Justadude]

The more I see and hear from the USA, the more I have concerns about the state of people’s hearts over there ( not all obviously ) That was Hitlers ideals - get rid of anyone who was not pure or good enough.........
It’s so easy to sacrifice someone else isn’t it ........

Yesterday I told @amadeus that I was hesitant to make those sorts of comparisons. Today I'm not so sure. I'm seeing far too many instances of conservative Christian Republicans expressing the "let the weak die" sentiment. Texas' Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick said old people should sacrifice themselves because "there are more important things than living". NEC Chair Larry Kudlow said we should "make some difficult trade-offs" between letting people die and the economy. Fox News' Brit Hume said it's "entirely reasonable" for people to die for the sake of the stock market. California Republican Ken Turnage effectively advocated the Nazi approach of letting the old and weak die because it will "reduce our impact on medical, jobs, and housing". And of course we've seen this sort of thing expressed right here at CB from Christians.

So yes, like you I also am growing concerned about the direction conservatism seems to be heading.

 

[Justadude]

I was making comparisons to Hitler's Germany long before there was any sign of this virus. This is just one more straw closer to breaking the camel's back. Riding that camel should not be an option, but other than serving God, what real alternative do most people have?

Like I said to Rita, above....I'm afraid there may be some truth to what you're saying.

 

[Nancy]

The first virus in history to cause unnatural separation and the muzzling of people

Social Distancing and the use of masks to prevent the spread of the virus are measures based NOT on true science. They are more about what you find in a mandatory course on political science that emphasizes effective tools for authoritarianism and population control.

This then is the so-called science and basis used and the political justification for a 6 foot or 2 meter physical separation or social distancing (SD) and the use of masks between two people for this current active ‘new’ virus.

When a person coughs or sneezes with or without a barrier over their mouth or nose to halt it, virus infected water droplets or even more energetic finer particle mists from the lungs or throat are generated and settles to the ground or at feet of another person 6 feet away or lingers in the air within a few feet to even more than 6 feet away from the other person.

This lingering virus embedded in water/vapor of fine mist though is the major spanner or wrench thrown naturally into the works that is a clear and unavoidable problem with SD and even the use of masks to combat the new virus or any other virus for that matter.

They, the medical ‘experts’ say that if we apply SD into society and into the population for this new and still unknown virus, we can then know if it works or is effective or not, over time. These same ‘experts’ suggest wearing masks with SD as a lesser and secondary mandate- why? The problem with these unscientific thoughts are numerous. Here are some of the highlights – the most obvious ones.

1. Not all people walk precisely at 2m or 6 ft. Many avoid doing SD all together when not in public. It is a very uncontrollable variable.

2. A large percentage of people wear barriers such as masks or plastic shields. Wearing these devises shred the notion of using SD as a control and knowing it effectiveness as a viable measure of slowing down the virus, completely. You cannot observe the SD effect whilst introducing another variable concurrently, viola, the mask!

3. If one is to show the effectiveness of SD, then there has to be a non-SD control group to compare the results. There is none and it there will never one devised.

4. Then there is the nagging lingering fine mist spray of the virus already mentioned, that completely voids the idea of SD being effective measure at all. To linger means to stay in the same airspace for a longer period of time and to stay compact for a longer period of time before even losing altitude. It may flow within the currents of air.

5. Even surgical grade masks when worm ‘correctly’ and smugly, cannot stop the virus from entering the airspace or prevent the virus from entering a body or cavity of the mouth, eyes, nose, especially when a fine mist of the virus in moving in the local airspace. So forget home-make cute masks all together. They do really nothing for preventing the virus spread. Although it can produce a psychologic boosting effect for the user; with a feeling of ‘protection.’

6. The effect of wearing a mask say 4-6 hours a day for a few months can be detrimental to your immune system and breathing in general. We are made to accept bacteria and virus, the good kind to maintain our immune system. Without having full access to these critters our immune system becomes impaired over time. So when a real threatening virus appears, we then are unprepared without a robust immune system to combat it.

7. Wearing a mask for a prolonged period of time can cause lung and breathing problems. Not enough O2 and too much CO2 in our bodies; not to mention inducing a self-inflicted strained lungs condition that stifles tidal normal breathing.

8. There are many important variables that cannot be calculated with any appreciable accuracy in the field, or in public for SD and the use of porous masks.

9. For SD and those with or without masks, - ALL 4 conditions (1. No SD and no masks, 2. SD and no masks, 3. SD and masks, and 4. Only masks and no SD. They ALL must be tested and evaluated. They must be done in a controlled environment as a true scientific experiment. And as of today there has been no true scientific study done on SD or even masking. Not even for the common flu! There have been a few partial tests performed for the use of masks with a virus present; in Hong Kong, Australia and the US, many years ago for the common flu. And these results are still debatable and not convincing. And then we are to believe that SD and even wearing masks are scientific proven measures against ‘slowing down’ a viral spread?!

10. The virus exposure time for potential infection is the main and critical variable for SD and even the use of masks or a combination of both. The time for the virus’ death outside the body is estimated to be between 30 mins to a few hours depending on factors such as being inside or outside, with or without sunshine, with or without rainfall, temperatures being below or above 70 degree F, the humidity, the current air speed and direction, the speed and direction of each of the two people separated, and of course the volume and speed and force of the water droplets or fine mist particles ejected at the muzzle or at the mouth’s exist or at least one person. The calculations really gets complicated even more if both individuals might have the virus and sneeze or cough in the same air space. And finally, how long the two people remain in the same air common airspace.

Before all this ‘new virus’ event began, most people understood that if you hear and or see someone coughing or sneezing you go the other way or evacuate the scene. It was and still is common sense, and it worked. Why not use this same sense for this new virus?

Are servant demeaning muzzles and human separation zones the new norm and the new way of 'dumbing' down the public, triggered by this so-called novel virus?


A critical thinker is something to be….

What say ye?


APAK

Very informative APAK, ty
Why I wonder, is it that all the past pandemics quarantined only the sick? And, now everyone is basically quarantined. Those who are overdoing all the sanitizers, washing everything down with bleach constantly is going to kill all the good bacteria and when things start to open again, the healthy folks will have a lowered immune system which, in my thoughts will bring on an even larger flu epidemic. Ah, what do I know, lol.

 

[Enoch111]

And, now everyone is basically quarantined.

This is China's revenge on America (and the West). When they saw that they could not continue winning the trade war, they decided to go in another direction. And guess what? American cash funded the Wuhan labs, and funded this revenge.

And in spite of that, the Acting Director of National Intelligence can't get his narrative straight. They have not even been able to investigate the Wuhan lab (and never will), but he is claiming that this was not a genetically modified virus just like that. So now he is playing China's game, just like the media. So China is winning all around, while the *schmucks* in the West can't figure it out.

China had already stated long ago that they would be willing to sacrifice millions of their own people to win the war against the West. They have been at war all along, but the feckless Western politicians have not bothered to see what is going on. Chances are many of them have been paid off by the CCP to work for China instead of their own countries. And now the Western media are blatantly working for China, and the US government stands by and watches this happen.

 

[Nancy]

This is China's revenge on America (and the West). When they saw that they could not continue winning the trade war, they decided to go in another direction. And guess what? American cash funded the Wuhan labs, and funded this revenge.

And in spite of that, the Acting Director of National Intelligence can't get his narrative straight. They have not even been able to investigate the Wuhan lab (and never will), but he is claiming that this was not a genetically modified virus just like that. So now he is playing China's game, just like the media. So China is winning all around, while the *schmucks* in the West can't figure it out.

China had already stated long ago that they would be willing to sacrifice millions of their own people to win the war against the West. They have been at war all along, but the feckless Western politicians have not bothered to see what is going on. Chances are many of them have been paid off by the CCP to work for China instead of their own countries. And now the Western media are blatantly working for China, and the US government stands by and watches this happen.

WORD!

 

[APAK]

Very informative APAK, ty
Why I wonder, is it that all the past pandemics quarantined only the sick? And, now everyone is basically quarantined. Those who are overdoing all the sanitizers, washing everything down with bleach constantly is going to kill all the good bacteria and when things start to open again, the healthy folks will have a lowered immune system which, in my thoughts will bring on an even larger flu epidemic. Ah, what do I know, lol.

Nancy: Your query speaks volumes about quarantining the healthy...they, the experts leave doubt and fear for the public to consume. You would have thought this is the first time they have tackled any virus......more to it then aye? I know it...
and your last statement is bullseye.....time will tell...

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Rita]

Rita, the government of the UK is responsible.

Health expert brands UK's coronavirus response 'pathetic'

Ministers ‘behaving like 19th-century colonialists playing a five-day game of cricket’, says Prof John Ashton

A leading public health expert has launched a devastating critique of the government’s handling of the coronavirus outbreak in the UK, saying it is too little too late, lacks transparency and fails to mobilise the public.

Prof John Ashton, a former regional director of public health for north-west England, lambasted a lack of preparation and openness from the government and contrasted Britain’s response to that of Hong Kong.

“Right at the beginning of February, they [Hong Kong] adopted a total approach to this, which is what we should have done five weeks ago ourselves. They took a decision to work to three principles – of responding promptly, staying alert, working in an open and transparent manner,” he told the Guardian.

“Our lot haven’t been working openly and transparently. They’ve been doing it in a (non) smoke-filled room and just dribbling out stuff. The chief medical officer only appeared in public after about two weeks. Then they have had a succession of people bobbing up and disappearing. Public Health England’s been almost invisible.

Health expert brands UK's coronavirus response 'pathetic'

And that’s the only part of my post you choose to post and comment on. So if this is ‘ just like the flu ‘ why would anyone be concerned about how the government first handled it all- after all flu is nothing to worry about, according to you and others on here !
You still missed the point I was making in my post......
Rita

 

[reformed1689]

So what are you suggesting, Sir? as it happens, my lungs are already compromised by major surgery; the virus attacks the lungs; my chances of survival would not be good if my lungs are touched by the virus; a lot of older ppl will likely die if they are touched by the virus. A lot of older ppl have already died. @Rita on these forums has posted that half the seniors at a local care home have already died of the virus.

The time for political slogans is long gone, surely.

Then stay home.

 

[reformed1689]

It sounds like you are saying this in order to try to downplay the need for virus precautions now. are you, Sir?

The precautions are overboard.

 

[amadeus]

Yesterday I told @amadeus that I was hesitant to make those sorts of comparisons. Today I'm not so sure. I'm seeing far too many instances of conservative Christian Republicans expressing the "let the weak die" sentiment. Texas' Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick said old people should sacrifice themselves because "there are more important things than living". NEC Chair Larry Kudlow said we should "make some difficult trade-offs" between letting people die and the economy. Fox News' Brit Hume said it's "entirely reasonable" for people to die for the sake of the stock market. California Republican Ken Turnage effectively advocated the Nazi approach of letting the old and weak die because it will "reduce our impact on medical, jobs, and housing". And of course we've seen this sort of thing expressed right here at CB from Christians.

So yes, like you I also am growing concerned about the direction conservatism seems to be heading.

In Hitler's Germany they were slow and secretive about killing or letting old or severely disabled non-Jewish Germans die even while they were openly targeted the Jews. This was because those in power did not want to turn the people against them. Too many Germans cared for their families even under those circumstances. How much do Americans really care? I know that many people do care, but there seem to be a great many who are very selfish when it comes down to it. People bearing the label, Christian, who act this way erode further an already generally poor example set before unbelievers.

 

[Justadude]

In Hitler's Germany they were slow and secretive about killing or letting old or severely disabled non-Jewish Germans die even while they were openly targeted the Jews. This was because those in power did not want to turn the people against them. Too many Germans cared for their families even under those circumstances.

Yep, and there was a period before that of propaganda about how the "weak", "infirmed", and such were a burden on German society. In the schools, students were given math problems where they'd calculate the costs of keeping such people around.

How much do Americans really care? I know that many people do care, but there seem to be a great many who are very selfish when it comes down to it. People bearing the label, Christian, who act this way erode further an already generally poor example set before unbelievers.

The posts right above yours are examples of exactly that.