Flat Earth Theory

[ProDeo]

Silly. One can look at the horizon and see the curvature. And especially when you look out at the ocean.

Correct.

Especially when standing on a beach with a free look left and right.

 

[ScottA]

Just for general info...
Why did the Jews and Christians believe that the world was flat and the sun and moon and stars moved around it? Why did they believe the world was on a fixed foundation? And why did sailors worry about sailing off the end of the world?

It wasn’t just the Jews and Christians; it was a common belief of the time period. And you will see a lot of references to “ the ends of the world and ends of the earth” The phrase mean something entirely different to us because we know the planet is round but, back then it was a fear…..of falling off the ends of the world….particularly for sailors.

The scriptures detail the earth stationary and flat and on a foundation.

According to these scriptures the earth has a foundation….and it was set on pillars that could be shaken but the earth could not move and the sun and moon moved around it….and if an object was tall enough it could be seen from the four corners of the earth because the earth was flat….and it had corners….and the sun and moon can stop traveling around the flat earth…. and heaven has windows.

1st Chronicles 16:30
Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved….. (They believed that the Earth did not rotate or move….. everything… sun, moon, and stars, orbits the earth.)

Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

1st Samuel 2:8
He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. For the foundations of the earth are the LORD’s; on them he has set the world.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew large and became strong And its height reached to the sky, And it was visible to the end of the whole earth. The earth would have to be flat for the tree to be visible from the whole earth.

Isaiah 11:12
He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth….

Revelation 7:1
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree…..The earth has corners,

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens.

Job 37:3
He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth……..the earth has ends?

Jeremiah 51:16
When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth?

Psalm 19:4-6
Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

Psalm 67:7
God shall bless us; let all the ends of the earth fear him!

Psalm 98:3
He has remembered his steadfast love and faithfulness to the house of Israel. All the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

Jeremiah 16:19
O Lord, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the nations come from the ends of the earth and say: “Our fathers have inherited nothing but lies, worthless things in which there is no profit.

1st Samuel 2:10
The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; against them he will thunder in heaven. The Lord will judge the ends of the earth; he will give strength to his king and exalt the power of his anointed.”

Psalm 19:4
Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

(The ends of the world…..the ends of the earth….the four corners!! This was a big concern with sailors….that they would fall off the end of the world.)

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened……(windows in the filament?)

Genesis 7:2
The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,

Isaiah 24:18
He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit, and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Proverbs 8:29
And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.

Psalms 75:3
When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars.…(the earth set on pillars?)

Job 9:6
Who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble;

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises……(there is a place where the sun rises?)

Habukkuk 3:11
The sun and moon stood still in their place at the light of your arrows as they sped, at the flash of your glittering spear.

Joshua 10:12-13
At that time Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day……

It would be that the earth stopped rotating not the sun and moon stopping.

Over the years science has proven a lot of what in the Old Testament is true. But there is the human perspective of trying to explain and understand some events.

The words are spirit. The foundations of the Lord are spirit. Who does not understand that? Only those ruled by flesh and blood and the ways of this world would not understand that.

This whole argument is flesh and blood against the Spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

The words are spirit. The foundations of the Lord are spirit. Do you not understand that? Only those ruled by flesh and blood and the ways of this world would not understand that.

God made man from a physical earth/dust and on a physical earth where we currently are in our physical bodies.

God made man 3 dimensional = body soul spirit

God's words are Spirit and they are Life

God's words are Truth = BOTH, in this physical realm and in the Eternal Realm of the Spirit

The Word that was God became flesh and dwelt among us

His suffering was physical as well as DEEP within His Soul

His Death was physical = on a physical Cross

His Resurrection was physical

His Kingdom is Spiritual and from Above

His Return/Second Coming is PHYSICAL

 

[ScottA]

God made man from a physical earth/dust and on a physical earth where we currently are in our physical bodies.

God made man 3 dimensional = body soul spirit

God's words are Spirit and they are Life

God's words are Truth = BOTH, in this physical realm and in the Eternal Realm of the Spirit

The Word that was God became flesh and dwelt among us

His suffering was physical as well as DEEP within His Soul

His Death was physical = on a physical Cross

His Resurrection was physical

His Kingdom is Spiritual and from Above

His Return/Second Coming is PHYSICAL

That is obviously what you believe, but only some of it is actually true.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

How do you "see curvature" when the very claim is that you can't see it?

With your eyes. It's easier to see it on a large lake ir the ocean.

 

[Lizbeth]

I agree with all you said. But I still say, Genesis 1 is literal. You seem to be painting with a very broad brush, here.

Your logic seems to be: Since some things aren't to be taken literally, therefore no things are to be taken literally.

We know, from later scriptures, that Genesis 1 (basically all the creation account) is to be taken literally.

No I'm not saying everything is to be taken literally.....you don't seem to be reading my posts very carefully. We need to rightly divide between what is literal and what isn't, and what is speaking on both levels at once (allegorically and literally).

I dont' at all claim to understand it all, but here are some examples I believe are worth considering:

Do you think the Tree of Life is a literal tree? Think God needed to guard a literal earthly tree with angels having swords of flaming fire? Are their flaming swords physical and literal too?

Do you think the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil could be alluding on one level to the Law....by which the Israelites learned to know good and evil and which brought a curse and ministration of death?

Rom 7:6-7

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

After disobeying God suddenly Adam & Eve "knew" they were naked. It was like a fall into having a carnal mind that judges good & evil....consciousness of sin.

How could there be a literal evening and day before the sun was created? And is it possible that "with the Lord a thousand years is as a day" applies to any of this?

 

[Lizbeth]

His Return/Second Coming is PHYSICAL

I wonder about where Jesus said to not believe those who say "lo here He is, or there"...but that His coming would be like lightning that shines from east to west. "Every eye will see Him"....after His resurrection He appeared to over 500 people at the same time....and they were not gathered together in the same place, otherwise there would have been no need to write that.

And I'm sorry I have trouble keeping up....you mentioned water...can you please explain that further, how you feel it rules out a spherical earth?

 

[David in NJ]

I wonder about where Jesus said to not believe those who say "lo here He is, or there"...but that His coming would be like lightning that shines from east to west. "Every eye will see Him"....after His resurrection He appeared to over 500 people at the same time....and they were not gathered together in the same place, otherwise there would have been no need to write that.

Great question and the LORD also gave us the Answer so that we do not fall prey to the lie of pre-trib = "lo here or lo there"

His Truth = is given to us, Key verse is 31 in Matthew 24:26-31

So if they tell you, ‘There He is, in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[Lizbeth]

Great question and the LORD also gave us the Answer so that we do not fall prey to the lie of pre-trib = "lo here or lo there"

His Truth = is given to us, Key verse is 32 in Matthew 24:26-31

So if they tell you, ‘There He is, in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Amen - to meet Him in the air. It all sounds like an apocalyptic celestial event, where everyone sees Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven as it were, and the sky will be rolled back like a scroll.....Jesus will not be on the ground anywhere. For unbelievers it will not be a welcome sight but terrifying, and their hearts will be failing them with fear.

 

[Lizbeth]

Literal tree. We do not know exactly how paradise realm operated, how angels interacted with men then (we do not know how now, too, at least not exactly). But the angels are literal, yes, altough they are not physical beings, but spirits. But we know, from the Old Testament, that sometimes they materialise in some form. So I don't know how exactly they were present there, but they were there.



I don't like speculation without foundation. From what I gather from the whole Bible, this is my understanding of the trees: God entered into covenant with men in the garden. It's Gods usual manner in covenants to represent that covenant with symbols or signs (Abrahams circumcision, Noahs rainbow etc.). So the trees symbolise that covenant God has with Adam. The tree of life symbolises the reward upon obedience, while the tree of knowledge symbolises that Adam had Gods law written in his heart - so he knew his duty.



There could be literal day & nights before the sun was created, because, according to the Bibel you are reading, daylight is not the result of the sun! Good observation.

It's sometimes helpful to allow the bible to interpret itself, as we take note of the same language used elsewhere in scripture and what it means. I think Paul had revelation of what the Tree of Knowledge of G&E meant. when he wrote that in Romans. And as to trees.....men looked like trees to the blind mind in process of being given his SIGHT. And it says elsewhere that Wisdom is a tree of life. JESUS!

 

[David in NJ]

That is obviously what you believe, but only some of it is actually true.

i believe you will enjoy this short read = it is a archeological fact of Revelation

Ancient Pergamon

Ancient Pergamon: Hellenistic powerhouse of science, medicine and imperial cult—yet called “Satan’s throne” in Revelation. Explore its altar, library and legacy.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

 

[ScottA]

i believe you will enjoy this short read = it is a archeological fact of Revelation

Ancient Pergamon

Ancient Pergamon: Hellenistic powerhouse of science, medicine and imperial cult—yet called “Satan’s throne” in Revelation. Explore its altar, library and legacy.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

I skim read it, but not sure what it has to do with the topic here.

 

[GodsGrace]

You have a beautiful name.

Thanks!

Airplane windows could give that impression. I saw the curve of the earth from a normal, typical airplane, too. At least I think I saw. And then I realised that I saw the same thing when we were on the ground. It's just the way the windows of that plane were framed.

You have videos posted here that show you the view of earth from around three times the height a concord would travel. There's no visible curvature. Here's the post:

Flat Earth Theory

I repeat the question, is ISS real or not ? God REPEATS His Question to you @ProDeo = Jeremiah 31:35-37 Simple logic question on Jeremiah 31:37 Please answer either Yes or No as commanded by the LORD - Matthew 5:7 A.) “If heaven above can be measured," B.) "And the foundations of the earth...

www.christianityboard.com

But I could post links too.

Here are two good ones: (the second one is rather entertaining)...

Of course, not everything is to be taken literally. The prophets were masters in imagery when confronting the people. But Genesis 1 is not written that way. It's a historical record given by Moses.

Did Moses write about his death?

There's not even sin in there.

There's no sin in Genesis?

And you can see how it is to be taken when later Scriptures, prophets, apostles or even Jesus himself were making reference to that Passage. They have taken it at face value. There's no imagery there. And therefore, there is no reasonable justification of reading imagery into it by us.

I often refer to Genesis 1.
God DID create everything.

History begins in chapter 12 re Abraham.

That's true. But there are sound methods and bad methods. If we are trying to prove the shape of the world we live in from the Bible itself, then we can not read into the Bible the very shape of the world that we have been told.

But I DO NOT try to determine the shape of the earth from the bible.

That is engaging in circular reasoning, that is, you presuppose what you are trying to prove. That is not a sound method, it's a bad method. Circular reasoning is no argument at all.

So, if you are trying to prove the shape of the world from the Bible, you must forget everything you have been told on that very topic.

But I don't.

Sure, that's a good summary. God wants us to know him and love him. That is, in other words, he wants our minds and hearts. But if God made the effort to give us a creation account in Genesis 1, don't you think that is important, and part of knowing him, and therefore loving him for it? I don't know about you, but I want to know the world that God created for me and all of us. I literally live in here, I can not escape it. The Bible says that God glorifies himself by the things that he made. The heavens declare the glory of God.

Agreed.
God created everything.

So when God glorifies himself by the things that he made, and someone tries to exchange these things with other things that are not his and are not real (which is basically, exchanging the truth for a lie), then that doesn't glorify God, because these things are not things that he has made, but a counterfeit.

I'm confused.
WHAT is not real?
The flat earth or the globe?

I believe God created everything.
I believe the earth is a globe.

You SEEM to be agreeing but I'm not sure.

 

[David in NJ]

I skim read it, but not sure what it has to do with the topic here.

Once Satan took control thru his imputed sin upon all of mankind he became = "the god of this world/Age"

Watch as the "god of this Age" declares his rulership to the Man that overcame his power and authority.

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”

Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.

 

[ScottA]

Once Satan took control thru his imputed sin upon all of mankind he became = "the god of this world/Age"

Watch as the "god of this Age" declares his rulership to the Man that overcame his power and authority.

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”

Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.

So you believe that they went physically up a mountain and physically looked out over the whole physical world seeing thousands of physical miles and physically saw all the kingdoms of the earth with naked human eyes? And you believe that Satan had naked eyes too?

Far out!...I mean, like crazy far, far out!

 

[David in NJ]

So you believe that they went physically up a mountain and physically looked out over the whole physical world seeing thousands of physical miles and physically saw all the kingdoms of the earth with the naked human eyes? And you believe that Satan had naked eyes too?

Far out!...I mean, like crazy far, far out!

So you choose unbelief and comedic response!!!

Is it not better to PRAY for understanding from Above, rather then rely on human intellect alone???

Luke 24:45 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

 

[David in NJ]

So you believe that they went physically up a mountain and physically looked out over the whole physical world seeing thousands of physical miles and physically saw all the kingdoms of the earth with naked human eyes? And you believe that Satan had naked eyes too?

Far out!...I mean, like crazy far, far out!

Why would you believe other = concerning the high mountain!!!

Secondly, Satan has Power that you know not of which is CLEAR from OT Scripture and the fact of that which he performed before the Lord on that high mountain.

But alas, i am casting pearls = hopefully for some who come and gather for their Blessing..........

 

[ScottA]

So you choose unbelief and comedic response!!!

No, I choose to rightly divide the word of truth. Which you are not doing by mixing heavenly revelations with worldly events.

 

[ScottA]

Is it not better to PRAY for understanding from Above, rather then rely on human intellect alone???

Luke 24:45 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

And this, your response, is not the only model for comprehension during these times. Which shows a limit to what you yourself have comprehended. You keep setting yourself up.

 

[David in NJ]

And this, your response, is not the only model for comprehension during these times. Which shows a limit to what you yourself have comprehended. You keep setting yourself up.

Or it demonstrates and authenticates Genesis

Joshua 24:15 But if it is unpleasing in your sight to serve the LORD, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!”