Flesh is Not Sinful

[GEN2REV]

Sadly, there are a number posting in this thread that "have not the Spirit of God."

“By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God …” 1 John 4:2

You are deceivers and anti-Christians - per the Word of God Almighty.

“For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” 2 John 1:7

 

[GEN2REV]

@marks

In ALL THINGS Christ had to be made like us, deceiver!!
Hebrews 2:17

Christ suffered and was tempted so that He could help those who suffer and are tempted - that means US, you child of darkness!!
Hebrews 2:18

 

[bbyrd009]

arent believers just the best? lol

 

[MatthewG]

People are at their own levels understanding, some take to much to the head, and go around believing they need to correct everyone, but that is even what I done with my mom, "You not right mom, I am right I will do things my own way", so who am I to judge. There is a difference between children of God and the mature Sons and Daughters of God, whoever that is out there, I can not see the heart of a person, @bbyrd009.

And also a difference when it is just our flesh being outlandish and when the spirit is guiding.

Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 4

What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline, or shall I come in love and with a gentle spirit?

 

[GEN2REV]

arent believers just the best? lol

People are at their own levels understanding, some take to much to the head, and go around believing they need to correct everyone, but that is even what I done with my mom, "You not right mom, I am right I will do things my own way", so who am I to judge. There is a difference between children of God and the mature Sons and Daughters of God, whoever that is out there, I can not see the heart of a person, @bbyrd009.

And also a difference when it is just our flesh being outlandish and when the spirit is guiding.

Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 4

What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline, or shall I come in love and with a gentle spirit?

And yet God literally LAUGHS at the wicked who have so much fun toying with True Believers and making sport of their passion for Truth.

Psalms 37:12-13

And Jesus Himself called out False Teachers and declared MUCH Woe on them publicly for their heresy and their public working of iniquity. SEVEN times in Matthew 23 He publicly declared them to be hypocrites; He called them blind and serpents and vipers destined for damnation in hell. He also accused them of being murderers by explaining how they were responsible for the people, who they fooled with their lies, murdering the True Prophets of God.
Matthew 23

 

[MatthewG]

How ever you desire to approach things is up to you Gen2rev. I don’t mind you for who you are at all, and respect you as a brother in Christ as well as each other member here.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The flesh man could have failed, and fallen, if Jesus did not accomplish what He accomplished.

Tell me, how can somebody achieve a sinless life if sin had no effect on them whatsoever? That's a non-accomplishment and it is ridiculous.

Do you know why we must be born again? Do you know how Jesus never sinned? If you can see the tie in to these two MUSTS, then you'll know what He accomplished and how. Right now you don't seem to know.

 

[Davy]

Corrupt modern Bible translations is one of the problems of understanding this I can see.

God's Word does not use ideas like sin spirit or sin nature concerning our flesh that causes most of our sins. Those terms instead are philosophical ideas used in later modern translations, and are designed to get the mind off of our flesh causing sin. The reason is because the children of darkness desire to believe in the idea that our flesh can reach perfection, when can never be. Only Lord Jesus was perfect and without sin while in the flesh, because He is God The Son. We aren't.

In John 3 Lord Jesus showed that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. So that means keep the two operations separate from each other. Sinful flesh means the lusts and desires of our flesh warring against our spirit.

 

[robert derrick]

All I can do is support what I've already posted since you refuse to specify your objection as an attempt to avoid being corrected.
1 John 5:19Sin entered the world, and death by sin. Romans 5:12The flesh is the source of the passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24
The deeds of the flesh are evident.
Galatians 5:19-21
Lusts and desires are of the flesh, and of the brain (the mind).
Ephesians 2:3
We must fight against our flesh, against its lusts.
Romans 13:14
The Flesh has desires of its very own that strive against the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit battles against the desires that come from the flesh itself.
Galatians 5:17

Now you go.

You haven't responded to any specifics of the first post, but only go on with your own teaching.

Which is fine. Just don't post it as a correction to anything I posted.

 

[robert derrick]

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

Jesus Christ came in the flesh. The same flesh of all men beginning with Adam: mortal, not with sin spirit nor nature.

Antichrists deny Jesus came only in mortal flesh made of the seed of David, but came with flesh born of a sin spirit.

The devil first lies about flesh being filled with a sin spirit, and then his antichrists come to preach Jesus was also born with flesh of a sin spirit.

Scripture says Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Antichrists say Jesus Christ is come in sinful flesh.

 

[GEN2REV]

You haven't responded to any specifics of the first post, but only go on with your own teaching.

Which is fine. Just don't post it as a correction to anything I posted.

You're refusing to cooperate in the discussion with me. You objected to my post, but refuse to specify what exactly your objection is because you're afraid of being corrected.

So, in other words, you're childishly holding up the conversation because you're afraid of where it might go.

If your position is that the flesh is not sinful, you have already been corrected thoroughly.

 

[GEN2REV]

Scripture says Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Antichrists say Jesus Christ is come in sinful flesh.

Flesh with sin spirit, flesh without - whatever abstract, unbiblical, terms you want to juggle, Jesus' flesh was susceptible to sin.

If it wasn't, His entire mission was pointless.

Did He defeat sin or not, Rob?

If you claim He did it in a body that was immune to the temptations of sin, how do you make any sense of that case?

 

[robert derrick]

Corrupt modern Bible translations is one of the problems of understanding this I can see.

God's Word does not use ideas like sin spirit or sin nature concerning our flesh that causes most of our sins. Those terms instead are philosophical ideas used in later modern translations, and are designed to get the mind off of our flesh causing sin. The reason is because the children of darkness desire to believe in the idea that our flesh can reach perfection, when can never be. Only Lord Jesus was perfect and without sin while in the flesh, because He is God The Son. We aren't.

In John 3 Lord Jesus showed that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. So that means keep the two operations separate from each other. Sinful flesh means the lusts and desires of our flesh warring against our spirit.

Partly true, especially in taking away a favorite excuse for sinning among unbelievers and sinning christians alike: "I was born this way."

Sinful flesh, however, is not saying flesh is sinful and has lusts to sin within it against our souls.

It is saying Jesus came in the likeness of mortal flesh, of sinful men.

He came made of the seed of David with mortal flesh, and so in the likeness of sinful men sinning with the flesh.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

It is the spirit of man that lusts with the flesh, not the flesh that lusts against the spirit.

All sin and righteousness is spiritual in nature, beginning within the heart, and then manifest in the flesh.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

If we lust, it is our lust, not the flesh's. Our spirit and soul lusts against the Spirit of God with the flesh: the warfare is spiritual, not carnal. We don't fight our own flesh, but rather we fight temptation of the spirit of this world to sin with the flesh.

We are abusing our own bodies, such as by fornication, if we lust to sin with the flesh.

It is not the flesh abusing the spirit and soul of man as an innocent by stander: Man is a spiritual being first, and only wrapped in earthen vessels, as apposed to spiritual beings with spiritual bodies called angels.

Mortal flesh is the innocent bystander being abused by the lusting spirit of man.

 

[GEN2REV]

Partly true, especially in taking away a favorite excuse for sinning among unbelievers and sinning christians alike: "I was born this way."

Sinful flesh, however, is not saying flesh is sinful and has lusts to sin within it against our souls.

It is saying Jesus came in the likeness of mortal flesh, of sinful men.

He came made of the seed of David with mortal flesh, and so in the likeness of sinful men sinning with the flesh.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

It is the spirit of man that lusts with the flesh, not the flesh that lusts against the spirit.

All sin and righteousness is spiritual in nature, beginning within the heart, and then manifest in the flesh.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

If we lust, it is our lust, not the flesh's. Our spirit and soul lusts against the Spirit of God with the flesh: the warfare is spiritual, not carnal. We don't fight our own flesh, but rather we fight temptation of the spirit of this world to sin with the flesh.

We are abusing our own bodies, such as by fornication, if we lust to sin with the flesh.

It is not the flesh abusing the spirit and soul of man as an innocent by stander: Man is a spiritual being first, and only wrapped in earthen vessels, as apposed to spiritual beings with spiritual bodies called angels.

Mortal flesh is the innocent bystander being abused by the lusting spirit of man.

Did you happen to see ANY of the verses I posted multiple times in this thread that contradict what you are claiming ... over and over again?

 

[robert derrick]

Flesh with sin spirit, flesh without - whatever abstract, unbiblical, terms you want to juggle, Jesus' flesh was susceptible to sin.

If it wasn't, His entire mission was pointless.

Did He defeat sin or not, Rob?

If you claim He did it in a body that was immune to the temptations of sin, how do you make any sense of that case?

Flesh is not abstract. Sin spirit in flesh tissue is abstract mythology.

What mortal flesh is 'susceptible' to whatsoever the spirit of man chooses to do with it.

All flesh is grass, and all grass is mortal, neither sinful nor righteous.

The mortal body is immune to nothing, without vaccinations against certain diseases.

It is the soul and spirit of man that can be tempted to lust for sinning with the flesh.

Jesus was a man in the same mortal flesh of David's seed like the rest of us.

He showed how by grace through faith in the Spirit to endure such temptation to sin with His own mortal body, and not do it once on earth.

Those who therefore are now of His flesh and bones on earth are doing likewise as He.

The devil teaches mortal flesh has some sin spirit coursing through it's tissues, blood, and bones, and brain matter, and then his antichrists teach Jesus Christ came in that same flesh of sin spirit and nature.

Doctors looking for bad humors in the flesh were foolishly doing so based upon the lie of flesh being made of a sin spirit and nature.

Gas escaping from mortal bodies may smell bad, but it isn't sinfully bad. (Unless of course it is done on purpose at the wrong place and time by the spirit of man with the flesh).

The flesh having a sin spirit is pagan spiritism of bodies, trees, and waters preached for doctrine of Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Did you happen to see ANY of the verses I posted multiple times in this thread that contradict what you are claiming ... over and over again?

You never counterpointed the principle argument I made. You have only gone on to repeat Scripture with your same old traditional reading of it, that I once agreed with.

Unless you can counterpoint any one of these principle arguments, then you must reconsider your traditional reading of Scripture elsewhere, as I have already done:

1. All flesh is grass. Therefore, like grass, all flesh is mortal, not born of sin spirit.
2.Jesus' flesh was made of the seed of David. Mortal, not with sin spirit.
3. Sinful flesh cannot therefore mean flesh with sin spirit, but rather sinful man sinning in the flesh.
4. Sin did not pass upon all men, but rather death passes upon all men by sinning, not by being born with sin spirit.
5. Christ is the maker of all things in heaven and on earth, and He makes all things good, and makes nothing evil, nor sinful in spirit nor in nature.

There is nothing sinful about having mortal flesh, even as there is nothing sinful about any created natural thing by God, neither flesh, nor grass, nor water, nor earth, nor sun, nor star.

Saying sin is passed upon all men as a spirit in physical seed of man, is a pagan lie of spiritism, where there is spirit in mortal bodies, trees, and water.

No living creature on this earth made by Christ is made sinful nor born with sin spirit.

Address any of these points specifically, and show why my reading of them is not correct.

 

[GEN2REV]

You're not always a clown, but you are a CLOWN in this thread.

1. All flesh is grass. Therefore, like grass, all flesh is mortal, not born of sin spirit.

Post a verse that says anything about the flesh "having a sin spirit."

2.Jesus' flesh was made of the seed of David. Mortal, not with sin spirit.

Is it your opinion that David's flesh was not sinful? Did David lust after his good friend's wife and have sinful fleshly sex with her - for which he was greatly punished by God?

3. Sinful flesh cannot therefore mean flesh with sin spirit, but rather sinful man sinning in the flesh.

Post a verse that says anything about the flesh "having a sin spirit." You haven't even shown a Biblical precedent for that ridiculous term yet.

4. Sin did not pass upon all men, but rather death passes upon all men by sinning, not by being born with sin spirit.
5. Christ is the maker of all things in heaven and on earth, and He makes all things good, and makes nothing evil, nor sinful in spirit nor in nature.

I've posted many verses in this thread that prove the Bible's position is that the flesh is sinful.

The flesh is the source of the passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24
The deeds of the flesh are evident.
Galatians 5:19-21
Lusts and desires are of the flesh, and of the brain (the mind).
Ephesians 2:3
We must fight against our flesh, against its lusts.
Romans 13:14
The Flesh has desires of its very own that strive against the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit battles against the desires that come from the flesh itself.
Galatians 5:17

This thread is a joke.

 

[robert derrick]

Since you have finally attempted to respond specifically to my principle points, then we can move on.

Yes, I say mortal flesh is mortal only, not sinful.

The translation of sinful flesh is not grammatically wrong, but is not doctrinally accurate.

All flesh is grass; therefore like grass, it is only mortal, neither sinful nor righteous. If you have another reading, then give it. If you spiritualize it, then it's only to take away from Scripture it's plain reading.

Sinful flesh is better worded as the flesh of sinful man. Jesus came in mortal flesh, and so in the likeness of flesh of sinful man, in the likeness of sinful man, but not a sinful man in the flesh.

He defeated sin in the flesh among us: He defeated sin not only as God in heaven, but also as a man in the flesh on earth. He defeated sinning with the flesh at every point. No man defeats a sin nature in the flesh, because there is no sin nor righteousness in the flesh.

Post a verse that says anything about the flesh "having a sin spirit."

There isn't, neither is there any Scripture saying flesh has a sin nature, nor that mortal flesh is sinful in itself. Scripture says nothing created natural is unclean of itself. You have a different reading? Has Christ the Maker of all things spiritual and natural, also made some natural things with sin in it, so that He makes some things that He cannot say is good?

All flesh on earth is made mortal by God on purpose. Flesh dies naturally, because like grass, all things of nature are mortal by nature. Adam's body did not die because of sinning, but only the soul dies by sinning, while the natural body only dies by natural mortality.

The traditional teaching is that the flesh is made and born with a sin nature by the sinful physical seed of Adam, which is saying there is a sin spirit in physical natural seed and flesh.

Some even call it a natural spirit of the flesh.

There is no sin spirit nor natural spirit, but spirit is of spirit only, and flesh is of flesh only.

There are only two natures in all creation: spiritual and natural. Only the spiritual can receive lust within to sin against God, as Lucifer first did. the natural only receives natural things within to live on, and none of it sinful in itself. It is not that which goes into the body that is sinful.

There is no sin nature in flesh, but only mortality. The nature of all things created by God in nature is mortality. Not sinfulness nor righteousness.

Only the spirit of man is sinful or righteous, who then either sins with the flesh or does righteousness in the flesh.

Is it your opinion that David's flesh was not sinful? Did David lust after his good friend's wife and have sinful fleshly sex with her - for which he was greatly punished by God?.

Yes. No flesh in itself is sinful nor unclean, but only unclean and sinful souls use the flesh for sinning for the devil against God.

Neither Adam nor David nor Jesus nor you nor I was made of flesh with sin in it.

Christ is the Maker of all things spiritual and natural, and He makes nothing sinful and unclean of itself, neither spiritual beings of angels and men, nor natural flesh and blood and bones.

If flesh is made sinfully with sin in it: who did so? Are you saying the devil is indeed a god that creates things? Christ is not the only Creator of all things spiritual and natural? The devil creates a sin nature or spirit in the seed of man and the womb of women?

Who put the sin in natural flesh? Who makes and creates all flesh? When did Christ put sin in natural flesh? You say Adam did by sinning? So man is now become his own maker, to put something into flesh, that Christ does not?

.I've posted many verses in this thread that prove the Bible's position is that the flesh is sinful..

You have posted the Scriptures that you traditional believe in your own way. I used to, and no longer do. Not unless you can counterpoint sensibly the arguments I make: All flesh is grass, mortal. Christ is Maker of all things and are good. There is no sin nature nor spirit in man's seed created by Christ, and certainly not by a false god of the world, that has made nor created anything but a lie.[/QUOTE]

 

[robert derrick]

And now, we can see how we will not read Scripture the same way, so long as you believe Christ makes bodies with sin in them, including blades of grass, which is as all flesh.

.
The flesh is the source of the passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24

The soul and spirit of man receiving lust is the source for sinning with the flesh. The flesh is nothing of itself, but only mortal, until it dies when the spirit departs.

You are the source for any sinning you do, not your flesh. You sin with your flesh. Your flesh does not sin with you. Your poor little hapless flesh is not the one doing evil things against your souls and spirit. Your body makes you do nothing, but you make your body do all things, whether sinful or righteous.

You want to blame your flesh and blood and bones for your sinning? or even hold them partly responsible for the decisions you make to do wtih them? How about when you do good? You give your body the credit? Are you at least fair? Your flesh is sinful, which is why yoiu did evil. But if you do good, is not your flesh then good?

.

The deeds of the flesh are evident.
Galatians 5:19-21.

The deeds of the flesh are the deeds done with the flesh: they are the deeds done by the spirit of sinful man while in natural mortal bodies.

The same goes for the works of the flesh: they are works done by the sinful soul with only the flesh in mind, in opposition to the Spirit of God. They are the produced works of a sinful soul in mortal flesh, using the flesh to sin for the devil against God.

Mortal flesh is an earthen vessel only, just as any other pottery on earth. The shell of the turtle is not sinful in itself, and neither is that of any mortal body on earth, whether man, beast, fish, or fowl.

.

We must fight against our flesh, against its lusts.
Romans 13:14

That is the lie of fool's gold, and a direct contradiction of Scripture, that says we war not with flesh and blood but with with spiritual wickedness. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but spiritual. We don't fight the flesh, neither do we fight sinning with the flesh by trying to control the flesh., That is a battle for fools who can never win it righteously. Which of course is why unrighteous hristian sinners like to believe it.

We defeat sinning with the flesh, Jesus did, by purifying within the cup first, which is spiritual warfare against the lust of the world and the devil, that tempts man to receive into the heart, and then commit with the flesh.

.

We must fight against our flesh, against its lusts.
Romans 13:14

The lusts of the flesh are the lusts of man using the flesh to sin against God. The brain, like the blood pump, has nothing sinful in it, nor more than that of the lion or the chimp or the whale.

The mind of man is the spirit of man, which is called the mind of the spirit. Man is a spiritual being in that we are not just flesh and blood and brain, like all other living creatures on earth, but we are soul and spirit and mind to think, intend, and imagine, and so do things with the body that no other living creature on earth can do.

There is no imagination in any brain of any living creature on earth, but only cells and electric input for moving the body. But man is created a living soul with a spirit and mind to put it's own will into the brain and body, even to do that which is contrary to nature and the body, which no other animal with brains on earth would ever do.:cool:

.

The Flesh has desires of its very own that strive against the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit battles against the desires that come from the flesh itself.
Galatians 5:17

Right, Your body has a mind of it's own. I will suffer this statement only one time from one person.

Scripture says, there is nothing unclean in nature of itself, for Christ makes all things clean in the beginning.

You are contradicting the Scripture, and saying there is something unclean of itself on earth, and it's called the billions of mortal bodies of all men and women on earth.

The spirit of sinful man lusts to envy against Christ, and so uses the flesh to sin against Him.

Man's spirit is the one receiving lust of the devil, to sin even against his own flesh in fornication.

The flesh doesn't sin against the soul nor itself.

If you want to say your body as a mind of it's own, then you are buying into fool's gold of self justifying children, who have yet to grow up.

Well, you see judge. My body just has a mind of it's own at times, and I simply can't help myself."

Right. Well, your body is going to jail, whether your body likes it or not. Bailiff, take that body out of here.

 

[robert derrick]

You're not always a clown, but you are a CLOWN in this thread.
Post a verse that says anything about the flesh "having a sin spirit."Is it your opinion that David's flesh was not sinful? Did David lust after his good friend's wife and have sinful fleshly sex with her - for which he was greatly punished by God?Post a verse that says anything about the flesh "having a sin spirit." You haven't even shown a Biblical precedent for that ridiculous term yet.I've posted many verses in this thread that prove the Bible's position is that the flesh is sinful.

The flesh is the source of the passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24
The deeds of the flesh are evident.
Galatians 5:19-21
Lusts and desires are of the flesh, and of the brain (the mind).
Ephesians 2:3
We must fight against our flesh, against its lusts.
Romans 13:14
The Flesh has desires of its very own that strive against the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit battles against the desires that come from the flesh itself.
Galatians 5:17

This thread is a joke.

Unlike others, I will give you a warning. I no longer tolerate personal insults nor attacks, that you would not say to my face.

I do not do it to others, nor will any do it to me.

We stay on topic and on argument. If you cannot keep it professional, then do not engage me.