Focusing on Hell is all about Ego

[bbyrd009]

That is right. Focusing on Hell is all about avoiding damnation......we were created for more than avoiding damnation. We serve a God that love us and has always wanted to be in free communion with us. Focusing on Hell to gain converts is demonic.

yup

 

[bbyrd009]

At least you aren't making the mistake I made. I went over to "Worthy Christian" Forum.. What a sick, slithering pit of vipers.

ha that's where i heard "it's ok to trash the earth since Jesus is going to make us a new one anyway" lol
by an admin no less

 

[Enoch111]

Focusing on Hell is all about avoiding damnation......

That is exactly what Jesus taught, not once but three times so that there would be no misunderstanding. So your OP is totally off base.

MARK 9
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[Willie T]

At least you aren't making the mistake I made. I went over to "Worthy Christian" Forum.. What a sick, slithering pit of vipers.

I really wasn't fair in saying that. There are a lot of good people over there, but about a half dozen of some seriously warped individuals taint the whole forum with their prejudices and biases.

 

[marksman]

That is right. Focusing on Hell is all about avoiding damnation......we were created for more than avoiding damnation. We serve a God that love us and has always wanted to be in free communion with us. Focusing on Hell to gain converts is demonic.

Is it? Then Jesus was demonic because he spoke more about hell than heaven.

 

[Helen]

Is it? Then Jesus was demonic because he spoke more about hell than heaven.

Cant quite agree there.
Jesus whole focus was always upon His Father. He had no other focus. He may have spoken about hell...but it was not His life's focus or passion. Which I believe is what @aspen is talking about.

Some people...and I am sure we have all met them...are obsessed with hell and damnation...even some preachers talk more about the negative than the positive .

It is "The Joy of The Lord is Your Strength"...nothing else.

Phil 4 8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

 

[Naomi25]

That is right. Focusing on Hell is all about avoiding damnation......we were created for more than avoiding damnation. We serve a God that love us and has always wanted to be in free communion with us. Focusing on Hell to gain converts is demonic.

My first thought at seeing this thread was, "who on earth focuses on hell?" But...I suppose you're right, there are some people who love to preach "fire and brimstone". And I suppose they do it to try and scare people into heaven, which seems slightly cockeyed to me.
I mean, you know that I do believe in the doctrine of eternal punishment; that it's real, that Christ taught it, and it's a true concern for those who are not saved. But for anyone to focus on it rather than on the astounding grace and love and sacrifice shown by Christ so that we may avoid that...is, well, like having one foot sunk in concrete while trying to fly, in my estimation.
God woos, he doesn't threaten. He says, 'I love you so much, here is what I've done so that you may avoid this', rather than, 'come to me or cop it'. And if that's not our approach when talking to others, than we need to reassess.

 

[aspen]

My first thought at seeing this thread was, "who on earth focuses on hell?" But...I suppose you're right, there are some people who love to preach "fire and brimstone". And I suppose they do it to try and scare people into heaven, which seems slightly cockeyed to me.
I mean, you know that I do believe in the doctrine of eternal punishment; that it's real, that Christ taught it, and it's a true concern for those who are not saved. But for anyone to focus on it rather than on the astounding grace and love and sacrifice shown by Christ so that we may avoid that...is, well, like having one foot sunk in concrete while trying to fly, in my estimation.
God woos, he doesn't threaten. He says, 'I love you so much, here is what I've done so that you may avoid this', rather than, 'come to me or cop it'. And if that's not our approach when talking to others, than we need to reassess.

I tend to see Hell as a condition resulting from continuing to exist in a radically individual state - distorted self love. Total isolation and self centeredness. Punishment? Not so much.....i tend to think life outside the Garden as punishment because we are still learning from our mistakes

 

[Enoch111]

I tend to see Hell as a condition resulting from continuing to exist in a radically individual state - distorted self love. Total isolation and self centeredness. Punishment? Not so much.....i tend to think life outside the Garden as punishment because we are still learning from our mistakes

In other words, every person is free to conjure up their own concept as Hell, no matter how far-fetched. As to people learning from their mistakes, we would not have the saying --history repeats itself -- if people did learn from their mistakes.

 

[Enoch111]

God woos, he doesn't threaten.

God does both. It is only men who try to distort God who go to either extreme.

Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. (Isa 13:6).

 

[Naomi25]

I tend to see Hell as a condition resulting from continuing to exist in a radically individual state - distorted self love. Total isolation and self centeredness. Punishment? Not so much.....i tend to think life outside the Garden as punishment because we are still learning from our mistakes

I think that is certainly part of it, yes. But I think also we have to acknowledge our active rebellion against God. It wasn't simply a mistake, we outright declared ourselves to be better gods than he; and we continue to do so while in open defiance of him. That is why it is so important for a person to come to realize that they are a sinner in front of a holy God and repent of that rebellion.

 

[Naomi25]

God does both. It is only men who try to distort God who go to either extreme.

Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. (Isa 13:6).

I don't know that God needs to threat, does he? He simply states what will happen...what will be, should we continue in our active rebellion. I might be nit-picking here, so I'm not going dogmatic on it. I'm just trying to establish how I see God...um...approaching...the whole issue? It just seems to me that when a person has to resort to threatening, it's because they're going to have to shift some weight to get their way. With God, that's not really an issue, is it? He's more saying, "this is the consequences of your actions, but here, see this hand I'm extending to you in grace? Take it instead."

 

[bbyrd009]

Is it? Then Jesus was demonic because he spoke more about hell than heaven.

in English anyway, ya; disappears in the Lex though. Gehenna is right here on earth!

 

[bbyrd009]

the doctrine of eternal punishment

nice, Naomi; i would get a better def of "eternal" maybe, "always going to occur this way" or something, but whatever

 

[Helen]

But I think also we have to acknowledge our active rebellion against God. It wasn't simply a mistake, we outright declared ourselves to be better gods than he; and we continue to do so while in open defiance of him. That is why it is so important for a person to come to realize that they are a sinner in front of a holy God and repent of that rebellion.

Interesting. I never saw it that way.
Before I knew God I did not 'actively' rebel against Him. I didn't even know Him!!
I knew of Him, I had been taken to church by parents and sent to Sunday school ... How can we rebel against anything without first being aware that there was a choice?

Looking fwd to hearing your answer and how it was with you.

 

[aspen]

I think that is certainly part of it, yes. But I think also we have to acknowledge our active rebellion against God. It wasn't simply a mistake, we outright declared ourselves to be better gods than he; and we continue to do so while in open defiance of him. That is why it is so important for a person to come to realize that they are a sinner in front of a holy God and repent of that rebellion.

But what is repentance? I believe it is acknowledging Christ’s love sacrifice and offer to restore our Garden relationship and a willingness to turn 180 degrees from distorted self love and begin to love outwardly. This takes practice and the power of the Holy Spirit. Focusing on flogging ourselves and wallowing in the mire of self reproach is a luxury we cannot afford....it gets in the way of our sanctification. Furthermore, abusive parents punish without a chance of redemption - it is called torture. I treat my dog with more compassion than many Christian’s view of God’s bloodlust towards humanity

 

[aspen]

I don't know that God needs to threat, does he? He simply states what will happen...what will be, should we continue in our active rebellion. I might be nit-picking here, so I'm not going dogmatic on it. I'm just trying to establish how I see God...um...approaching...the whole issue? It just seems to me that when a person has to resort to threatening, it's because they're going to have to shift some weight to get their way. With God, that's not really an issue, is it? He's more saying, "this is the consequences of your actions, but here, see this hand I'm extending to you in grace? Take it instead."

I think if we were equal beings with God in everyway but authority, you would be right. Teachers, employers, political learders are equal with their underlings in everyway but authority and therefore, have the moral authority to punish rebellion. I do not have the right to punish my dog in the same manner because he is not capable of understanding or complying in the same manner - in fact, he has no idea that eating cat poop is so displeasing to me or even that it is bad for his health - all he responds to is redirction - every other response is as effective as spanking an infant

 

[aspen]

Interesting. I never saw it that way.
Before I knew God I did not 'actively' rebel against Him. I didn't even know Him!!
I knew of Him, I had been taken to church by parents and sent to Sunday school ... How can we rebel against anything without first being aware that there was a choice?

Looking fwd to hearing your answer and how it was with you.

I totally agree

 

[Naomi25]

nice, Naomi; i would get a better def of "eternal" maybe, "always going to occur this way" or something, but whatever

Sorry, but, how is 'eternal' and 'always going to occur this way' any different, really, except one is shorter than the other, and therefore slightly more efficient?
They both give credence to the notion that an event will continue on indefinitely, yes?

 

[Naomi25]

Interesting. I never saw it that way.
Before I knew God I did not 'actively' rebel against Him. I didn't even know Him!!
I knew of Him, I had been taken to church by parents and sent to Sunday school ... How can we rebel against anything without first being aware that there was a choice?

Looking fwd to hearing your answer and how it was with you.

Well...I could post a heap of verses, and if you'd like, I can. But, I think it's best to start with logic. If it were simply a matter of people being born totally oblivious to God...not knowing he existed, or not knowing him personally, then, well, it's not that big a deal, is it? It's a matter of ships (spiritual ships, perhaps) passing in the night, no more. But if we recognize that ever since Adam and Eve and that first act of open rebellion against God has...stained, mankind, then we must realize it has become more than that. We know that all descendants of Adam have inherited his sin nature...that was why Jesus had to be born of the woman's 'seed'...so he was not born with Adams inherited sinful nature. And it's that nature that we all have. It drives us, regardless of whether we believe that God exists or not, to strive to put ourselves and other things in a place we should put God. God made humankind, at our base level, to be worshipers. That's what we crave, whether we acknowledge it or not...and if we don't have God rightfully at the head of our lives, we put ourselves there, or other created things there; sport, spouses, children, jobs, stuff. And the more we worship it, the more we rebel against God. It doesn't seem, probably, to us to be an "active" rebellion...like shaking our fists at the sky would be. But if God is not the one we treasure above all else, then it is open rebellion. And it will lead to our misery and ultimate ruin, because nothing can stand up under the weight of worship except the creator God. Sports hero's fail, spouses cheat, children leave home and stuff breaks. Only God can give us the joy that we want from our worship.
Hope that makes sense!