Focusing on Hell is all about Ego

[Buzzfruit]

-- These churches are so few and far between that your implication this is widespread is completely misleading.

That's why I said some.

And you forget that if they are in church, they are already considering themselves Christians and NOT people who are being witnessed to in the hopes of having them give their lives to Christ.

But the fear of Hell is what motivates those who focus when speaking to unbelievers who are not interested in their message. Those that focus on that have no idea what the gospel that Jesus preached, and therefore have no understanding as to the purpose for God making human beings.

And since church attendance is voluntary, and TV and other media show scores of other options for all denominations, people who would stay in a church like this are there by CHOICE.

A choice that is influence by the fear of Hell for some.

-- It is NOT demonic. And "focus on Hell" witnessing is NOT a mainstream practice used to convert anyone.

What is it, Godly? There is nowhere in the Bible where anyone of God's prophets, apostles focus on the preaching of Hell? What was Jesus' overwhelming message?

-- The implication by the "Love Only" crowd here is that this is the only other option to the "witnessing" they do, which is completely false.

If you want to call something "demonic" it is the fact that these "Love Only" people either actually believe such a thing and thus are shown to be incredibly misguided, or they know the truth and still make these false accusations, thus making them intentional liars..

I never said anything about calling anyone demonic......its the message that I am talking about.

 

[Duckybill]

You know, this is one of those moments I can't quite believe has come....I completely and totally agree with Ducky!!!

Thanks Rach.

I have no doubt that you are a Godly person. And I have no doubt that we are amongst many tares here.

 

[Insight]

Ducky you do understand how differcult it is to expel heretics (Tares)? Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:11,12,13 2 Thessalonians 3:6; 1 Timothy 6:3,4,5; Titus 3:10; 2 John 8,9,10

And while the Masters teaching is to leave them in our midst (in part) we know the obvious offenders are put out, false brethren still exist in the church/forum to be revealed at judgement.

Where possible I prefer to teach where people are being condemning. Did you know when the seed of the darnel is crushed into the wheat it embittered the bread, and caused nausea and even sickness and possible death! Matt 13:24–30

Lets hope Ducky you dont die from thier darnel.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

It is demonic......the focusing on Hell and using Hell as a means to get people to change gives the impression that God is an angry God itching to punish, and will punish the wicked for all eternity. It gives the impression that God does not forgives. This is the impression that Satan wants people to believe about God.....but in truth it is more a reflection of Satan's nature.

Oh come on now we both know satan speaks the toungue of lies and the demons work to keep those lies going. Where is your faith if someone talking about hell brings demons into your mind brother ? Satan doesn't go around advertising his torturous home in exchange for your soul nobody would ever fall into his trap if he did that. Also in my 20 some years of church attendance I have almost never heard a pastor focus that much on hell. Also if a pastor has that type of thoughts on his mind his congregation may really be in danger and he is trying to scare them out of their sinful ways.

 

[Foreigner]

Good job to everyone who didn't respond to any of the baiting = )

Translation: No one decided to respond when it was shown their position is anti-Scriptural and not supported by Christ's own words.

 

[Foreigner]

What is it, Godly? There is nowhere in the Bible where anyone of God's prophets, apostles focus on the preaching of Hell? What was Jesus' overwhelming message?

-- So you just want the 'overview' of Jesus' message and not the nuts and bolts....
Jesus Christ spoke frequently and thoroughly about the dangers of hell. Why?
Because in His love He wanted us to avoid hell at all costs.
Simply saying "You are love, you are loved" and leaving it at that would not have saved these people. Hence His MULTIPLE warnings.
He told us how much He loves us....and part of that was saying something we didn't want to hear but absolutely needed to hear.

That is where your false dichotomy come in.
It is not either "just love" or "just hell."

Jesus HIMSELF - on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS - spoke about the dangers of hell.

But just as most Christians today do when they witness, he spoke of God's love and forgiveness primarily.

If Jesus Christ Himself felt the need to warn several times about the dangers of hell for those who do not repent from sin, why would ANYONE in their right mind feel that we should excluse that portion?

 

[Robbie]

Some people have no other way to feel good about themselves than to find someone who they feel more right/righteous than... haha

That's why so many religious spend most of their time talking about how wrong everyone else is... or how wrong other groups are...

It's their prides attempt at avoiding the ever approaching day when they'll have to realize what a wretched person they really are.

Better to acknowledge it now and just stand in the righteousness that is not your own... that Christ became when He hang on the cross... and sprinkled us with His blood.

It's the only way to truly be saved.

I'm glad I know what a dirtbag I am... haha... thanks to Christ for clothing me in His righteousness... as without Him I'm nothing.

 

[BibleScribe]

Translation: No one decided to respond when it was shown their position is anti-Scriptural and not supported by Christ's own words.

LOLOL, -- I thought the same thing when I read that post. ^_^



I'm not sure but it seems the wisdom of Vizzini ("The Princess Bride") was accurate in that some in this Forum are sufficiently studied to realize their mortality, as such they place the cup of death (hell) as far from them a possible.*

Thus one might conclude that their relationship with GOD, through Jesus, is probably less than desired, -- because it's only a church/religion?!?



But an individual who is confident in the LORD has no such fear, and can accept the fullness of Scripture.

BibleScribe



* http://www.imdb.com/...t0093779/quotes
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky you do understand how differcult it is to expel heretics (Tares)? Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:11,12,13 2 Thessalonians 3:6; 1 Timothy 6:3,4,5; Titus 3:10; 2 John 8,9,10

And while the Masters teaching is to leave them in our midst (in part) we know the obvious offenders are put out, false brethren still exist in the church/forum to be revealed at judgement.

Where possible I prefer to teach where people are being condemning. Did you know when the seed of the darnel is crushed into the wheat it embittered the bread, and caused nausea and even sickness and possible death! Matt 13:24–30

Lets hope Ducky you dont die from thier darnel.

Ah, where's the love?

I'm glad I know what a dirtbag I am... haha... thanks to Christ for clothing me in His righteousness... as without Him I'm nothing.

Won't work Robbie.

2 Corinthians 7:1 (NKJV)
1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

We have been warned. Those living in sin had better get some fear of God in their hearts before it's too late.

 

[Robbie]

Won't work Duck... We are cleansed by His blood... not by our works...

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin."

Walking in the light isn't walking perfectly... it's walking in the truth of who we are... which is what causes confession of our sins... when we confess our sins and live in the light of our wretchedness this is when the blood of the Son cleanses us.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. - Jesus

And it's only by the blood of Jesus Christ that we can have boldness to walk into the presence of God and have a reestablished relationship with Him.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus

So nope Ducky... it aint about you being righteous... it's all about Him... all glory to Him...

 

[Duckybill]

Won't work Duck... We are cleansed by His blood... not by our works...

Which makes a mockery of the Bible. It is filled with commandments.

Luke 6:46-49 (NKJV)
46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

 

[aspen]

Lately, being on this board makes me feel like I'm in a room full of Joel Osteens! It's all about LOVE and what God wants to do for you, and lets through doctrine and truth out the window.

Joel Olsteen promises wealth and happiness. I am talking about sacrificing everything to love others - see the difference?


Also

It is hard for me to watch two brothers I believe to be committed to Christ and living the gospel, fighting. Robbie and Prentis - this is surprising and troubling.....

 

[Robbie]

It is troubling Aspen...

But I'm going to fight the good fight against anyone who's telling me I don't have assurance of salvation because my salvation is dependent upon me becoming perfect... and that the blood of Jesus Christ is just one of the ingredients in my salvation... they're preaching a false gospel Aspen... and one that leads to death... to eternal separation from God.

By doing so they're trying to kill me... whether they know it or not they're trying to make me estranged from Christ... and I will not allow anyone to spread the leaven of pride to me that will one day have me standing before Jesus and having Him say I never knew you...

That's all there is to it... I'll stand against it forever... I'll hold tight to my confession... I'll fight the good fight of faith in Him...

 

[Rach1370]

Which makes a mockery of the Bible. It is filled with commandments.

Luke 6:46-49 (NKJV)
46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

I've just started reading a book by John Piper titled: "What Jesus Demands from the World". He bases it just on the gospels, but pulls it all together with many other scriptures. The simple fact is that Jesus in His ministry did give us many commands. And we do need to follow them, He makes that plain. But He also makes it plain that by following His demands, we come much closer to Him, in love and in righteousness...all through His grace and work in us.
I think it's a case of people simplifying things too much. Yes, Jesus said we are to love, yes He even said that to love was the most important. But when we dismiss everything else He told us to do, because all we need is love, we're essentially short changing ourselves. To become more loving, to become more Christ like, we need to follow all the commands, because ultimately those other commands, just bring us closer to that perfect love.

 

[Insight]

That is right. Focusing on Hell is all about avoiding damnation......we were created for more than avoiding damnation. We serve a God that love us and has always wanted to be in free communion with us. Focusing on Hell to gain converts is demonic.

Eccl 3:11 - - Do we all fix our sight NOT on what is seen (Gal 3:22), but on what is unseen (Num 14:21YLT; Hab 2:14YLT). For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal See 2 Co 4:17,18.

All peoples of the earth have the potential to hope for things unseen (eternal) see 1 Jo 3:2 and what will come to pass cannot be resisted.

Ah "He has made everything beautiful in its time" even the hope for eternity which is set in all of your hearts.

Insight

 

[Helen]

That is right. Focusing on Hell is all about avoiding damnation......we were created for more than avoiding damnation. We serve a God that love us and has always wanted to be in free communion with us. Focusing on Hell to gain converts is demonic.

AMEN @aspen

I bet you don't remember writing this old post

I am bored with most of the on-going boring threads we have going right now...was was browsing through some of the old ones again.

We may not agree about Trump...but we do agree here!!

The Plan of God is companionship and relationship with Him...not escaping from some man taught 'hell.'

Hugs...Helen

 

[Willie T]

The NT is full of warnings that we must fear God. Jesus is not a free pass to heaven. He's an example. He shows the way. Yes, he has paid for our sins, in the sense that if we repent and turn to him, our old sins are gone. But we have been bought with a price, and for a purpose. We are supposed to be fruitull to God. Any tree that doesn't bear fruit is cut off.

If I may propose an answer, Comm.Arnold, to this dilemma

Modern Christianity has taken everything away from a man who is honestly loving and genuinely humble and yet does not know the Lord. I bet I'm going to get flack for this :lol: . But the good samaritan was not a Christian. To do good is to do good. God rewards all according to what they do, and if a humble man, who does not know Christ, loves his neighbor and has mercy on his enemies, then he knows Christ more than some who claim the name of Christ! Those who obey his commandments will have life.

Of course, as Christians, we have a higher calling, and we should call others to this. We are called to walk as Christ. To be holy as he is holy. May I suggest though, that everyone reaps what he sows, and a man who sows love and mercy will reap love and mercy, as the good samaritan, and the man who sows the new life in Christ and holiness will reap in the new life of Christ and holiness.

We have somehow decided that there is only eternal suffering, and eternal glory. May I suggest it's not that simple. Before you say 'it's not in scripture', let me show you an example that talks in this direction

1 Corinthians 3:15
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

It also says that the house the house of God has many vessels, some to honor and some to shame. Judgment comes on the house of God first, some judged to honor, some to shame. Then are judged those outside, some to life and some to death.

Think about this; if the sheep, in the parable of the sheep and the goats, are Christians, how do they not know that they had given to Christ, and to 'the least of these'?

This ought to be enough to make this place a mess :lol:

I used to have the same "works" attitude way back when I was in the CoC.

 

[aspen]

I used to have the same "works" attitude way back when I was in the CoC.

Yeah, he was an interesting person - well, he wrote interesting posts

 

[Willie T]

AMEN @aspen

I bet you don't remember writing this old post

I am bored with most of the on-going boring threads we have going right now...was was browsing through some of the old ones again.

We may not agree about Trump...but we do agree here!!

The Plan of God is companionship and relationship with Him...not escaping from some man taught 'hell.'

Hugs...Helen

At least you aren't making the mistake I made. I went over to "Worthy Christian" Forum.. What a sick, slithering pit of vipers.

 

[aspen]

Wow, this is back when FHII and I really argued a lot. Thankfully, we have choosen to make changes.