For those who think Christ is not God.

[Johann]

.....Commentary bomb to redefine the scripture.

Ick!

Just trying to help, nothing more, nothing less..just a pilgrim in this foreign world.
J.

 

[marks]

I don't speak Greek.

No more carpet bombing the thread with Greek redefinitions.

I'm always surprised when someone rejects more learning, and in particular when it comes to the Bible. Do you feel that having more information may threaten your views? I can understand that! There is so much we don't know, and doctrines from Scripture we've really come to rely on! What IF we were to learn something that meant what we've held so closely to can't actually be right? And what if we're being wrongly convinced?? So that we let go of truth and replace it with error?

I'm not trusting in my ability to understand everything. I believe I'll spend the rest of my life learning more about the sayings of Scripture. But I am trusting in Jesus to keep me where I need to be, to learn what I need to learn, to do what I need to do.

I want to know the Bible because I want to know God, and if I discover my view is smudged, a little cleanser is just the thing!

Much love!

 

[TLHKAJ]

Can you see how the Scriptures are being "philosophized" away by the reasoning of fallible man @Truther?


Joh 20:28 In reply, T'oma said to Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, Adoni and Elohai! [TEHILLIM 35:23]
Joh 20:29 And Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach says to him, Because you have seen Me, you have emunah (faith)?
OJB.

Καὶ ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ, Ὁ Κύριός μου.....Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive 1st Person Singular.... καὶ ὁ Θεός μου.

Note the two Definite Articles

My Lord and my God (Hο κυριος μου κα ο θεος μου). Not exclamation, but address, the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koine. Thomas was wholly convinced and did not hesitate to address the Risen Christ as Lord and God. And Jesus accepts the words and praises Thomas for so doing.

And so I believe..why don't people accept what stands written, Perfect Tense, and believe?

100 NAMES OF JESUS


J.

I love these verses! It's very striking that Jesus states to Thomas that contrast between being faithless/unbelieving and believing ....was hinged on Thomas's proclamation of who Jesus was/is.

 

[Johann]

No more carpet bombing the thread with Greek redefinitions.

I started it, might as well keep usin' whatever I have
J.

 

[APAK]

Your idea of the Last Adam seems more like the continuation of the first Adam, sharing the DNA of corrupt humanity.

There is something else, also, that distinguishes these two.

1 Corinthians 15:45-49 KJV
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I strongly suggest that you give serious consideration to the implications of your view that Jesus shared in sinful corrupted flesh. This affects how we will understand new birth, and justification, and adoption by God, and so much more.

Much love!

Wow marks, are you saying that Christ was born by the divine Father through his own Spirit of a sin nature that impregnated a human egg? How can the Spirit be separated from itself - to cause sin? Impossible and nonsense!

So are you calling God the Father, I guess for you, the Holy Spirit only, as sin and of a corrupt nature? Your statement is preposterous. The first Adam was initially sinless as Christ, although he succumbed to sin. Christ was born differently, with Mary, and without a sin nature from the Father (this is how sin is transferred into humans via the human father of the sperm, that began with Adam), and maintained this state as his human spirit was 'joined' and then 'controlled' by his Father's spirit. This is how Christ maintained a sinless life....else he might have sinned?

And your scripture you quoted that distinguishes the 1st and 2 Adams is not really applicable to this topic or your response to Truther. Your statements are at the root of @Truther 's response to you that scripture does not cover explicitly.

To say that Truther's post suggests a continuation of a sin nature via a corrupt DNA is clearly incorrect. The Spirit of the Father has NO corrupt DNA for his Son. Christ was born with a propensity and a bias to not sin, as the 1st Adam did at one point. Both Adams were created the same, sinless, then the one born of the elements of the earth, became sinful and the gateway to death back to the dust, and the other of God's Spirit, as a quickening spirit for eternal life in paradise - the new Eden.

 

[marks]

Wow marks, are you saying that Christ was born by the divine Father through his own Spirit of a sin nature that impregnated a human egg?

No I'm not. That is what I'm arguing against.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Am I my father? I mean too say my biological father passed a little over a year ago. Strangers meet me on the street and say, I know who’s son you are, and I ask how so. They reply, you are the spitting image of him.

appearance, mannerism, speech,

 

[Brakelite]

Throughout scripture the belief and trust in the declaration that Jesus is the Son of God is seen as a first principle in faith. Among the apostles this equated as proof of divinity...as proof of Sonship prior to the incarnation. He was the Creator in the beginning, and He is now the recreator of minds and hearts lost and corrupted through the deceitfulness of sin. We are called to honor the Son as we honor the Father. In love, in worship, in service, in faithfulness, in character. May the Lord bless all who come to Him in true faith and hope of eternal life.

 

[Truther]

I really "Feel" for ya


,Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Mat 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Luk 7:19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.


Sacrifice:

Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Jer 6:20 To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me.



Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Gen_3:15; Isa_7:14; Jer_31:22; Mat_1:20-23; Luk_1:35; Joh_1:14; Gal_4:4; 1Ti_3:16; 1Jn_4:2-3; 2Jn_1:7
hast thou prepared:6-8, me: or, thou hast fitted me

Is it still a tapestry or a mystery?
J.

Awesome!

Jesus' dying did the trick for us.

Thank God that He gave us a redo of the 1st Adam.

We are now graduated into the last Adam's life and ministry.

Bye bye, 1st Adam.

 

[Truther]

You are in error, maybe accidentally or willfully indicative that you are not reading scriptures, or maybe you are reading but not believing what you read.
J.

The only thing I am not believing is the extra Biblical idea that God incarnated into a man given to us by the RCC.

I clearly see God INSIDE a man, though(not God as a man).

 

[Truther]

@Truther, maybe you are not seeking after truth?
J.

Was Jesus an Adam or not?...

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[Truther]

You need to read the Koine morphology, and do use biblical terminology and try to compare scripture with scripture
Miles Coverdale.
J.

No, we need to read Matt 1 and understand was "conceived in her" means.

You know, like sperm meets egg.

Not, "concocted in her" etc.

 

[Truther]

I would think start a beginners Hebrew and Koine Greek study, very helpful.
J.

Egad!

Become a closet translator and Bible redefinitionist like the others?

Never!

 

[Truther]

Your idea of the Last Adam seems more like the continuation of the first Adam, sharing the DNA of corrupt humanity.

There is something else, also, that distinguishes these two.

1 Corinthians 15:45-49 KJV
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I strongly suggest that you give serious consideration to the implications of your view that Jesus shared in sinful corrupted flesh. This affects how we will understand new birth, and justification, and adoption by God, and so much more.

Much love!

It is easy.

The Bible story is really about God having 2 sons.

One is created from dust and one is begotten in a woman's ovaries.

The first Adam fell and became our sinful daddy.

The last Adam did not sin and restored our standing with God and became our adopted daddy.

It is not technical at all.

They were both individuals with a God.

God DID NOT become the last Adam.

 

[Truther]

Just trying to help, nothing more, nothing less..just a pilgrim in this foreign world.
J.

We can just compare verses instead of Greeking each other to death.

 

[Truther]

I'm always surprised when someone rejects more learning, and in particular when it comes to the Bible. Do you feel that having more information may threaten your views? I can understand that! There is so much we don't know, and doctrines from Scripture we've really come to rely on! What IF we were to learn something that meant what we've held so closely to can't actually be right? And what if we're being wrongly convinced?? So that we let go of truth and replace it with error?

I'm not trusting in my ability to understand everything. I believe I'll spend the rest of my life learning more about the sayings of Scripture. But I am trusting in Jesus to keep me where I need to be, to learn what I need to learn, to do what I need to do.

I want to know the Bible because I want to know God, and if I discover my view is smudged, a little cleanser is just the thing!

Much love!

Do you call some PHD with a bunch of redefinitions "learning"?

How many of those fellers do you need to read the simple scriptures?

Just what are you actually looking for that the verses are not saying?

Sola Scriptura!

 

[Truther]

I started it, might as well keep usin' whatever I have
J.

Barf!

 

[Truther]

Wow marks, are you saying that Christ was born by the divine Father through his own Spirit of a sin nature that impregnated a human egg? How can the Spirit be separated from itself - to cause sin? Impossible and nonsense!

So are you calling God the Father, I guess for you, the Holy Spirit only, as sin and of a corrupt nature? Your statement is preposterous. The first Adam was initially sinless as Christ, although he succumbed to sin. Christ was born differently, with Mary, and without a sin nature from the Father (this is how sin is transferred into humans via the human father of the sperm, that began with Adam), and maintained this state as his human spirit was 'joined' and then 'controlled' by his Father's spirit. This is how Christ maintained a sinless life....else he might have sinned?

And your scripture you quoted that distinguishes the 1st and 2 Adams is not really applicable to this topic or your response to Truther. Your statements are at the root of @Truther 's response to you that scripture does not cover explicitly.

To say that Truther's post suggests a continuation of a sin nature via a corrupt DNA is clearly incorrect. The Spirit of the Father has NO corrupt DNA for his Son. Christ was born with a propensity and a bias to not sin, as the 1st Adam did at one point. Both Adams were created the same, sinless, then the one born of the elements of the earth, became sinful and the gateway to death back to the dust, and the other of God's Spirit, as a quickening spirit for eternal life in paradise - the new Eden.

I think that we sin by nature because Adam #1 was our daddy.

Babies are not sinners.

They are innocent until they begin to grow up and sin, therefore if a baby dies they go to heaven, not needing to be born again.

So, what makes a sinner is sinning.

Jesus(Adam #2) was tempted and COULD HAVE sinned, but did not.

We have the inherent nature of the 1st Adam competing with the overcoming nature of the last Adam in us after we are given the Holy Ghost.

So, Jesus could be the seed of Abraham(a sinner) and still not be a sinner unless he actually sinned.

Understandest thou me?

 

[face2face]

Are you thinking of us as "born from Jesus", therefore His children? Just wanting to clarify that, thanks!

Much love!

Hi Marks,

Jesus teaching is very clear to me when he says "I am the resurrection and the life" to mean, when we are raised, it's his resurrection we are raised with (not our own i.e any work on our part) i.e his faith, love, hope etc, we are raised through...and of course its his life because Paul states Jesus is the firstborn (first man to be given eternal life) live forever) among men.

Another proof that Jesus is not God is John 5:26 when Jesus said, “The Father hath life in himself”.

The immortality of Jesus is a derived immortality from his Father as he goes on to say here: “So has He (Yahweh) given to the Son (Jesus) to have life in himself.” Firstly this "LIFE" was not previously his otherwise its a puppet show, a fraud. That LIFE was a reward for his obedience to the Father.

This is really important that we don't believe God will give us that power to be a source of life i.e. give that life to others, we are recipients of that life, which God gave to His Son.

With regard to his obedient disciples, the Son of God speaks of “equality,” not, indeed, with God, but “with the angels.” “They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that age and the resurrection from the dead . . . are equal unto the angels, and are children of God, being the children of the resurrection” (Luke 20:36).

F2F.

 

[marks]

Just what are you actually looking for that the verses are not saying?

How familiar are you with Logical Fallacies? Nothing fancy to knowing what they are, they just help to identify parts of a debate that don't actually mean anything.

This is of course a complex question. And I can equally ask you, why are you avoiding the meaning the Scriptures?

How useful, how accurate, is that? Not at all, really.

Much love!