For those who think Christ is not God.

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Is Christ God?

  • God

    Votes: 31 77.5%
  • Lesser than God

    Votes: 7 17.5%
  • A mere Son/Man of God.

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Total voters
    40

dev553344

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John 5:30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
 

Johann

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In this context, the three persons define who God is, while the one essence defines what God is.

So who is Mashiach to you Devin?
Is Messiah Theos or rather..ho Theos? Ehyeh aSher Ehyeh?

Isa 9:6 (5) For unto us a yeled is born, unto us ben is given; and the misrah (dominion) shall be upon his shoulder; and Shmo shall be called Peleh (Wonderful), Yoetz (Counsellor), El Gibbor (Mighty G-d), Avi Ad (Everlasting Father), Sar Shalom (Prince of Peace).

Do you believe what you read?

Exo 3:14 And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.
OJB

Do you 'see" Now?
J.
 
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dev553344

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So who is Mashiach to you Devin?
Is Messiah Theos or rather..ho Theos? Ehyeh aSher Ehyeh?

Isa 9:6 (5) For unto us a yeled is born, unto us ben is given; and the misrah (dominion) shall be upon his shoulder; and Shmo shall be called Peleh (Wonderful), Yoetz (Counsellor), El Gibbor (Mighty G-d), Avi Ad (Everlasting Father), Sar Shalom (Prince of Peace).

Do you believe what you read?

Exo 3:14 And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.
OJB

Do you 'see" Now?
J.
I told you what I know to be true in the two posts before your post. I included biblical content proving what I say. From Jesus' own words.
 

dev553344

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Galatians 1:1

King James Version


1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)
 
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Pearl

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Circular Reasoning. You are leading with your conclusion, make an unwarranted assumption, then pretend the words God spoke were spoken by somebody else. Who said "This is my son in whom I am well pleased?" It was not Jesus speaking these words, the words of God.



The word became flesh, not God. See the difference? And for some reason, trinitarians mistranslate 'this' with 'he.' See John 6:60. It should read 'this word' not 'he word' since words are WHAT's not WHO's.

Why are you assuming the word in John 1:1 refers to Jesus? Do you realize it is inapproproate to use anything in John's Gospel, the most anti-trinitarian book in the whole Bible because of what John himself said at 20:31 - that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed. So, it is funny to see trinitarians try to twist 1:1 – and indeed, his entire Gospel - to have a purpose other than what John explicitly stated is the purpose of his Gospel!

John's prologue refers to God, not Jesus, who is not even mentioned until v14. For a better understanding of the argument watch this:

(6493) John's Prologue - Part 1 - YouTube
The Word was God. Jesus is the Word.
 

TLHKAJ

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I told you what I know to be true in the two posts before your post. I included biblical content proving what I say. From Jesus' own words.
There is a reason why Jesus did nothing apart from God the Father. A kingdom divided cannot stand. God is not divided against Himself.

 
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dev553344

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Who was Jeshua in eternity past devin?
J.
If you think you're going to teach me something here, your wrong. I know more about God than anyone on this forum. I have seen God. And he taught me about him. Please read carefully the scriptures I provided.
 

TLHKAJ

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John 14:8-9
[8]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
 

dev553344

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There is a reason why Jesus did nothing apart from God the Father. A kingdom divided cannot stand. God is not divided against Himself.
If you don't understand that the Father is greater than the Son, then you don't understand God. Nor their proper relationship.
 

TLHKAJ

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If you think you're going to teach me something here, your wrong. I know more about God than anyone on this forum. I have seen God. And he taught me about him. Please read carefully the scriptures I provided.
Wow, you can't be taught, huh? Devin, this is pride. The body of Christ is just that ...a body with many members. None of us are meant to be a lone ranger.

1 Corinthians 12:1-31
[1]Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2]Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5]And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6]And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8]For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9]To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10]To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11]But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
[12]For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14]For the body is not one member, but many.
[15]If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[16]And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17]If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18]But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
[19]And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20]But now are they many members, yet but one body.
[21]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22]Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23]And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24]For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26]And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
[27]Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[28]And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29]Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30]Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31]But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
 
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dev553344

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Wow, you can't be taught, huh? Devin, this is pride. The body of Christ is just that ...a body with many members. None of us are meant to be a lone ranger.

1 Corinthians 12:1-31
[1]Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2]Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5]And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6]And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8]For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9]To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10]To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11]But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
[12]For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14]For the body is not one member, but many.
[15]If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[16]And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17]If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18]But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
[19]And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20]But now are they many members, yet but one body.
[21]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22]Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23]And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24]For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26]And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
[27]Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[28]And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29]Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30]Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31]But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Nope, not pride, it's the truth. I've seen the Father and he has taught me beyond the bible about God. Discussing the bible isn't going to cover my understanding of God, which is what we have here.

Does a student know more than a graduate? Is that pride also.

Is the Father greater than his son? Then why do we call one the Father and the other the Son? Think on it.
 
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TLHKAJ

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If you don't understand that the Father is greater than the Son, then you don't understand God. Nor their proper relationship.
What makes you think I don't understand who God is? The scriptures are plain. If you don't believe in Jesus as the scriptures say, you don't know God at all. The true Jesus Christ of the Bible ...is the Way to God the Father. You can't even know Him apart from the true Lord Jesus.

John 8:42-47
[42]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[43]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[46]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[47]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


Jesus proceeded from/came out from God because He is the Word of God. The Word of God is God. It's not difficult to understand this.

In Genesis, when God said, "Let
us make man in our image" ...this is God speaking to Himself (Father, Word, Spirit). When He spoke, the Word proceeded out from Him and the Spirit moved ....this is how He created everything. Without the Word, nothing was made .....ALL THINGS were made BY HIM. The Word was sent out from God and became flesh. That is Jesus. But He was preeminent.... "Before Abraham was, I Am." This was why the Jews accused Him of blasphemy, because they knew and understood that Jesus was claiming to be God ....because He IS God! They had a hard time with that and didn't receive Him because of their unbelief.
 
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dev553344

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What makes you think I don't understand who God is? The scriptures are plain. If you don't believe in Jesus as the scriptures say, you don't know God at all. The true Jesus Christ of the Bible ...is the Way to God the Father. You can't even know Him apart from the true Lord Jesus.

John 8:42-47
[42]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[43]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[46]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[47]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus proceeded from/came out from God because He is the Word of God. The Word of God is God. It's not difficult to understand this. In Genesis, when God said, "Let us make man in our image" ...this is God speaking to Himself (Father, Word, Spirit). When He spoke, the Word proceeded out from Him and the Spirit moved ....this is how He created everything. Without the Word, nothing was made .....ALL THINGS were made BY HIM. The Word was sent out from God and became flesh. That is Jesus. But He was preeminent.... "Before Abraham was, I Am." This was why the Jews accused Him of blasphemy, because they knew and understood that Jesus was claiming to be God ....because He IS God! They had a hard time with that and didn't receive Him because of their unbelief.
My statements follow the scripture I posted in this thread.
 

TLHKAJ

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Nope, not pride, it's the truth. I've seen the Father and he has taught me beyond the bible about God. Discussing the bible isn't going to cover my understanding of God, which is what we have here.

Does a student know more than a graduate? Is that pride also.

Is the Father greater than his son? Then why do we call one the Father and the other the Son? Think on it.
You've denied the truth and claim to be walking in truth? Devin, I think we have nothing further to discuss.
 

dev553344

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Select verses twisted to be given a meaning that you prefer. No thank you. I'm done. Ignore.
:rolleyes: Fine, it's time for me to watch online Catholic Mass anyways. And I know how much you loooooove Catholics, lol.
 
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TLHKAJ

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John 8:42-47
[42]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Furthermore, the OT speaks of the Word as being sent....

Psalm 107:20
[20]He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

Isaiah 55:8-11
[8]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
[10]For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[11]So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Seed to the sower and bread to the eater....

John 6:32-35
[32]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
[33]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
[34]Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
[35]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:48-51,58
[48]I am that bread of life.
[49]Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
[50]This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
[51]I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
[58]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Luke 8:11
[11]Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
 
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Johann

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Luke 8:11
[11]Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Ah! The arm of the Lord. the Memra....


So, who did Jesus claim to be?
Who does the Bible say He is? First, He is God in the flesh. Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.”

At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement. They tried to stone Him “for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

The Jews understood Jesus’ statement as a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews or attempts to clarify His statement. He never says, “I did not claim to be God.” When Jesus said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He truly was claiming equality with God.

In John 8:58 Jesus claims pre-existence, an attribute of God: “‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’”

In response to this statement, the Jews again took up stones to stone Jesus (John 8:59). In claiming pre-existence, Jesus applied a name for God to Himself—I AM (see Exodus 3:14). The Jews rejected Jesus’ identity as God Incarnate, but they understood exactly what He was saying.

Other biblical clues that Jesus is God in the flesh include John 1:1, which says, “The Word was God,” coupled with John 1:14, which says, “The Word became flesh.”

Thomas the disciple declared to Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28), Jesus does not correct him.

The apostle Paul describes Jesus as “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). The apostle Peter says the same, calling Jesus “our God and Savior” (2 Peter 1:1).

God the Father bears witness of Jesus’ identity as well: “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom’” (Hebrews 1:8; cf. Psalm 45:6). Old Testament prophecies such as Isaiah 9:6 announce the deity of Christ: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (emphasis added).

Why is the question of Jesus’ identity so important? Why does it matter whether Jesus is God? Several reasons:

• As C. S. Lewis pointed out, if Jesus is not God, then Jesus is the worst of liars and untrustworthy in every way.

• If Jesus is not God, then the apostles would likewise have been liars.

• Jesus had to be God because the Messiah was promised to be the “Holy One” (Psalm 16:5, NASB). Since no one on earth is righteous before God (Psalm 53:1; 143:2), God Himself had to enter the world as a human.

• If Jesus is not God, His death would have been insufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God Himself could provide an infinite, eternally valuable sacrifice (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

• God is the only Savior (Hosea 13:4; cf. 1 Timothy 2:3). If Jesus is to be the Savior, then He must be God.


Jesus had to be both God and man. As God, Jesus could satisfy God’s wrath. As a man, Jesus had the capability of dying. As the God-man, Jesus is the perfect Mediator between heaven and earth (1 Timothy 2:5).

Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ. As He proclaimed, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

I simply cannot believe that the majority on this forum don't believe that Christ Jesus IS God...

If you don't believe that Christ is God, you do not have a Savior and perish in your hamartia.


Still don't believe the Scriptures?

But the point
here is that humankind in Gn
1:27 is “HaAdam” in Hebrew,
and that verse shows Man as
having both singularity and
plurality (oto and otam, Gn
1:27), thus reflecting his
Maker, Elohim, Who also has
singularity and plurality in
His complexity (compare
echad in Gn 2:24 and Dt 6:4).
Gn 1:26 uses a majestic plural
but the Doctrine of Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold Holiness) is seen in
Elohim (Gn 1:1) and the Dvar (Word)
Hashem (Gn 1:3) and the
Ruach Elohim (Gn 1:2)
engaged in the work of
creation.

When we look at the
original language in Zohar
Vol.3 Ha'azinu page 288b, we
see the text which comments
on Daniel 7:13, where the Bar
Moshiach comes to the
Ancient of Days. The Zohar
says, "The Ancient One is
described as being two (TAV
RESH-YUD-FINAL
NOON,Aramaic for "two")." G-d
and the Moshiach, called by
Daniel "the Ancient of Days"
and "the Son of Man" are
obviously a picture of G-d as
"two" in the Bible, and the
Zohar owns up to this fact,
calling G-d "two."

Two
sentences prior to that on the
same page, the original
language of the text of the
Zohar says, "The Ancient Holy
One [i.e. G-d, Daniel 7:13] is
found with three (TAV
LAMMED-TAV, Aramaic for
"three") heads or chiefs (RESH
YUD-SHIN-YUD-FINAL NOON
Aramaic for "heads"), which are
united in One (CHET-DALET
Aramaic for "one")." Here we
have a picture in the Zohar of
the raz (mystery) of G-d's
unity, the distinct havayot
(subsistences, modes of being)
in Adonoi Echad.
OJB


The Scriptures, the Zoar and many more..how is it that you cannot believe that Mashiach is Theos?
J.
 
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