For those who think Christ is not God.

[Waiting on him]

It's the type of statement being made. Jesus said that this is possible by saying all things are possible, and the greater takes in the lesser, the greater is not limited by the lesser.

The foundational truth here is that with God, all things are possible, and this supercedes the fact that with man, it's impossible. The impossibility for man does not negate that nothing is impossible for God.

Does that help?

Much love!

Actually what Jesus said is that with men it is impossible, I’d think Jesus being a man would mean it is impossible for even him, but the Spirit of God in him without measure is something totally different.

Unless your prepared to argue Jesus wasn’t a man?

 

[Waiting on him]

John 5:30-32 KJV
[30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. [32] There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

 

[face2face]

It's the type of statement being made. Jesus said that this is possible by saying all things are possible, and the greater takes in the lesser, the greater is not limited by the lesser.

The foundational truth here is that with God, all things are possible, and this supercedes the fact that with man, it's impossible. The impossibility for man does not negate that nothing is impossible for God.

Does that help?

Much love!

I still haven't a clue what you are on about Marks. What are you implying is possible?

 

[MrBebe]

We’re going way off topic. There’s no way I can confront every Roman Catholic doctrine in this one thread.

Good day,

Before we close our exchanges of opinions, let me express my belief:

The teaching that the Bride is the church which was ESTABLISHED BY THE LORD YESHUA and is mentioned in Ephesians 5:22-33 and in Revelation 19:7-9 is NOT a Roman Catholic doctrine, it's a Biblical fact.

Grace and Peace from God be with us all!

 

[Waiting on him]

Good day,

Before we close our exchanges of opinions, let me express my belief:

The teaching that the Bride is the church which was ESTABLISHED BY THE LORD YESHUA and is mentioned in Ephesians 5:22-33 and in Revelation 19:7-9 is NOT a Roman Catholic doctrine, it's a Biblical fact.

Grace and Peace from God be with us all!

Ok so John the Baptist stated he saw the bride and bridegroom at the baptism of Jesus. Are you saying you were there too? Was marks there?

 

[Waiting on him]

Good day,

Before we close our exchanges of opinions, let me express my belief:

The teaching that the Bride is the church which was ESTABLISHED BY THE LORD YESHUA and is mentioned in Ephesians 5:22-33 and in Revelation 19:7-9 is NOT a Roman Catholic doctrine, it's a Biblical fact.

Grace and Peace from God be with us all!

The Baptist also said he heard the voice of the bridegroom, so I ask you who spoke at Jesus’s baptism?

 

[face2face]

John 5:30-32 KJV
[30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. [32] There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

I find trinitarians jump all over verses that show Christ being at one with his Father, but how often do they tackle verses like these? Let's just say for a moment that Jesus is God...why pretend to have no authority? why pretend to be a person who learns wisdom? Why pretend to die a gruesome death, when all the while He is God? But I get it requires more faith to believe in the real Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

Here you go sir:

Thanks, sir.

1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker.
With the exception of Jesus himself, who was the first and only creation made exclusively from Jehovah's hands, all things were made through and for Jesus Rev 3:14; Col 1:16

No Scripture says Jesus was ever made. Only that He has made all things.

And since nothing was ever made without Him, that would include making Himself, if He were made, He would made Himself, which is false:

Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

2. You say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes a direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, including all gods that have not made anything will perish.
Your selected version translates theos as a god at Acts 28:6, why the inconsistency? Since Ho did not preceed theos at Jn 1:1 then it would be rendered god in English. That is the simple truth, it was your version that altered it to support the triune god doctrine.

Non answer. There was never any god with the Lord God in the beginning, nor now.

You are now evading.

Your falsely made christ and god was never with the LORD and will perish with all other gods.
Although there are many gods according to the Bible, and yes those who actually exist will perish in the end, to us Christians there is one God Jehovah, and one Lord His son Jesus Christ 1 Cor 8:5,6

And so agree your god your call 'Jesus', who has never made anything, will perish.

For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

So long as you call Jesus a god, you make an perishing idol of Him. Your jehovah is your god and idol, not Jesus.

3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.

Actually I agree with Joshua sir: (Joshua 23:14) 14 “Now look! I am about to die, and you well know with all your heart and with all your soul that not one word out of all the good promises that Jehovah your God has spoken to you has failed. They have all come true for you. Not one word of them has failed. We have seen so much more fulfilled since he said that, heck there are numerous prophecies about Jesus which were fulfilled alone Rob. I don't really understand how you can say that.

Another non-answer and evasion: It is not about promised the LORD made for His people to fulfill on earth, but the prophecies that He Himself Personally would fulfill for His people on earth. Jesus has and shall again.

4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ.

Jesus is God's son, and yes all who inherit everlasting life receive it through the sacrifice given by Jesus.

Another non answer and evasion: Jesus Christ is that eternal life with the Father manifested among us, the Word with the Father that dwelt among us, and the true God is that eternal life.

(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus Christ is the true God, Word, and eternal life manifested among us on earth: fulfilling the prophecy of Himself Personally.

Here you go sir:

5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah.

Jesus was his earthly name sir, he was not called that until he came to earth. He has never been called Yehovah, his name in Hebrew is Yeshua.

Another non answer and evasion. Jesu's name is above every name ever named in heaven and on earth.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Which includes Yehovah.

6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God.

You are correct sir, the whole passage: (John 5:22, 23) . . .For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

You have inserted an honoring that Scripture does not. The Son is to be honored as the Father, which is therefore as all that the Father is: God, who is also judge of all the earth, as well as being God.

The Scripture is showing that God the Son is the judge of all the earth, and will all, so that in the end, every knee will bow unto Him as Lord, God, and Judge.

There is only one Judge and Lawgiver over all the earth:

There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Since the Son came down to earth as man, and laid down His life for man, He is given to be the Judge of all men, whether the quick or the dead: not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.


I appreciate your responses to restore your credibility as a debater with me, by at least responding.

Since you have no answer at this time for 4 of them, then can do so in future, if you think of one. I'd be glad to hear it.

Thanks again

 

[robert derrick]

I find trinitarians jump all over verses that show Christ being at one with his Father, but how often do they tackle verses like these? Let's just say for a moment that Jesus is God...why pretend to have no authority? why pretend to be a person who learns wisdom? Why pretend to die a gruesome death, when all the while He is God? But I get it requires more faith to believe in the real Jesus.

When you understand why He became a man, then you will understand why He submitted to the Father in all things as a man, to be the example of how to do so on earth.

In the meantime, your carnal mind accusing Jesus of pretending is par for the age-old mocking by idolators from long ago.

 

[face2face]

When you understand why He became a man, then you will understand why He submitted to the Father in all things as a man, to be the example of how to do so on earth.

In the meantime, your carnal mind accusing Jesus of pretending is par for the age-old mocking by idolators from long ago.

That's the point though robert, you can't understand why God submitted to God, nor can you define it by Scripture, because its not there. But you are right the Son is the exemplar in obedience.

 

[face2face]

Thanks, sir.
No Scripture says Jesus was ever made.

Explain what you mean by made?

If your Christ is not of the seed of David (Romans 1:3) you do not have a King, and if your Messiah wasn't given life from among men you wouldn't have a High Priest either (Hebrews 5:1).

So...one could say you have no King and no High Priest which leaves you with?

As the Apostles testified "Blessed be the God (Creator) and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ"

Let's give that an Amen!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

That's the point though robert, you can't understand why God submitted to God, nor can you define it by Scripture, because its not there. But you are right the Son is the exemplar in obedience.

Yes, The SON "learned obedience as A Man," but, Before He Came to the earth,
He First HUMBLED Himself Before His Father, "To Be Sent!" And, Then The Third Person Of The One Triune GodHead DOUBLY HUMBLED Himself To Be Sent
to the earth, By BOTH: The Father And The SON!

(John 14:26) (John 16:7)​

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[face2face]

Yes, The SON "learned obedience as A Man," but, Before He Came to the earth,
He First HUMBLED Himself Before His Father, "To Be Sent!" And, Then The Third Person Of The One Triune GodHead DOUBLY HUMBLED Himself To Be Sent
to the earth, By BOTH: The Father And The SON!

(John 14:26) (John 16:7)
​

View attachment 23095

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

If you were at the Nicene Council they all (318) would have said the Amen...while the angels in Heaven (and 5 others) wept.

318 to 5 was the vote (as per tradition), and you know, it only took 300 + years for this to happen!... Revelation 2:2, Actually, it was already in the body when Jesus delivered his message to the angle and on to John. If you think seriously about this issue Grace...of all the doctrines in the Bible, which one would be the first truth to be compromised? Of course you are thinking "the Godhead" and then what?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

If you were at the Nicene Council they all (318) would have said the Amen...while the angels in Heaven (and 5 others) wept.

318 to 5 was the vote (as per tradition), and you know, it only took 300 + years for this to happen!... Revelation 2:2, Actually, it was already in the body when Jesus delivered his message to the angle and on to John. If you think seriously about this issue Grace...of all the doctrines in the Bible, which one would be the first truth to be compromised? Of course you are thinking "the Godhead" and then what?

Of course, Next would be salvation, thus, we have "a Different jesus with a Different
gospel!" Amen?

I reject "councils and traditions," Only believing In The Word Of Truth, and
believing ALL Of IT!!:

500 Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Pearl]

The scriptures call both God AND Jesus King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[Kermos]

Jesus most certainly is inferior to God! Jesus died. God did not. Jesus did not so love the world that he gave God! But God so loved the world that he gave his procreated Son, only begotten at the time.

How else do you explain 1 COR 11:3? And Jesus himself admitting God knows more than he and is greater than he. Jesus only said what God told him to say and Jesus submitted to God's will on his last night. The Father alone is explicitly identified as God over and over and over again. Not one time is Jesus called 'God the son' in Scripture or God in any way in Scripture.

God raised Jesus from the dead. There is no Scriptural verse that says God was raised from the dead by Jesus or that God submitted to Jesus or God was sent by Jesus or God only said what Jesus told him to say. There is no verse that says Jesus is the head of God.

And who did Jesus tell us to pray to? To our Father, meaning Jesus is on equal level with us; he did not say to pray to 'my Father.' Also, he said the being we are to pray to is where Jesus is not at the time he said it - in heaven. Jesus said only those who truly worship, worship the Father. God never said only those who truly worship, worship him.

1 Timothy 1:17 says that all glory goes to God. No verse says to divide glory among even God's servant, explicity stated to be Jesus at Acts 3:13. There is no verse that says God is the servant of Jesus. Even after Jesus had been GIVEN all authority in heaven and Earth, sitting on the throne of God, waiting to return to Earth, he is STILL inferior to God as Rev 1:1 explicitly states God gave Jesus the revelation.

All of this establishes hierarchy, meaning Jesus is inferior to God in every way.

@Aunty Jane and @DavidB, this post goes for both of you as well because you both liked Wrangler's post.

Jesus says that Jesus would raise up Jesus from the dead (John 2:19-22), and God raised Jesus up from the dead (Acts 2:24); therefore, Jesus is God! Here are the relevant passages.

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken. (John 2:19-22).

"God raised Him up" (Apostle Peter referencing "Him" to Jesus, Acts 2:24).

You do not believe the word which Jesus speaks.

Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

The "Equality of the Father and the Son" equates to the Father being God and the Son being God

Lord Jesus says "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 4:18).

Immediately after Jesus says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), the very next thing He says is "I showed you many good works from the Father" (John 10:31).

See that God is good alone, and see that good in Jesus as recorded in John 10:31.

Moreover, the Jews response to Jesus' "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) is reminiscent of "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).

The Apostle John expressed his very own observations and belief that the Son of God is equal to God according to John's linguistic construction of the sentence (John 5:18); moreover, no one is equal to God except for God and there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4); therefore, Jesus is God.

JESUS CHRIST IS MOST CERTAINLY GOD.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[face2face]

Of course, Next would be salvation, thus, we have "a Different jesus with a Different
gospel!" Amen?

I reject "councils and traditions," Only believing In The Word Of Truth, and
believing ALL Of IT!!:

500 Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...

You reject councils but believe in their philosophies?

 

[Kermos]

If you were at the Nicene Council they all (318) would have said the Amen...while the angels in Heaven (and 5 others) wept.

318 to 5 was the vote (as per tradition), and you know, it only took 300 + years for this to happen!... Revelation 2:2, Actually, it was already in the body when Jesus delivered his message to the angle and on to John. If you think seriously about this issue Grace...of all the doctrines in the Bible, which one would be the first truth to be compromised? Of course you are thinking "the Godhead" and then what?

You impose your thoughts on @GRACE ambassador in your last sentence without support. In fact, you ignore GRACE ambassador's meaning of the Word of Truth in your post

You reject councils but believe in their philosophies?

In what appears to be your motion to confuse the dialog.

Now, let us look at the Word of Truth (John 14:6), that is, the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14).

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.

And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.

And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.

And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.

And, the week prior to any of the angels being created Jesus' words of I AM harmonize truthfully.

No matter when in time one seeks before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of I AM remain absolutely true.

Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.

Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.

Behold, Going back in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going back in time.

Jesus says "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).

The angel Gabriel declared to Mary about Jesus "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).

Behold, Going forward in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.

GOD is exclusively the One that IS EVERLASTING going back in time and going forward in time.

God is everlasting.

Jesus is everlasting.

No one except God is everlasting.

Everlasting YHWH God is Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8, see also Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13), thus says He Who is coming on the clouds!

"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me" (Isaiah 43:10).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

All people that think Jesus Christ was created hold to news that is not the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-7), so you have no gospel at all.

 

[Kermos]

Actually what Jesus said is that with men it is impossible, I’d think Jesus being a man would mean it is impossible for even him, but the Spirit of God in him without measure is something totally different.

Unless your prepared to argue Jesus wasn’t a man?

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

John 5:30-32 KJV
[30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. [32] There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

This post this extends my prior post to you, immediately above this post.

The "Equality of the Father and the Son" equates to the Father being God and the Son being God.

Lord Jesus says "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 4:18).

Immediately after Jesus says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), the very next thing He says is "I showed you many good works from the Father" (John 10:31).

See that God is good alone, and see that good in Jesus as recorded in John 10:31.

Moreover, the Jews response to Jesus' "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) is reminiscent of "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).

The Apostle John expressed his very own observations and belief that the Son of God is equal to God according to John's linguistic construction of the sentence (John 5:18); moreover, no one is equal to God except for God and there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4); therefore, Jesus is God.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).