For those who think Jesus is God - Why is that important?

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AceWestfall08

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Why does shedding of blood equate to forgiveness. I know sacrifices was the custom and tradition, but I can't see how logically the act of killing something, an act of violence (or death if u don't see it as violent). What is the reasoning behind the act causing forgiveness.
 
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Keiw

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Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever.

I YHWH change not, therefore, you, O Jacob, are not consumed!

If Jesus were not God, Jesus would be subject to change. Since Jesus IS God, He does not change, therefore,

We have an anchor sure and steadfast, reaching through the veil.

"Stayed upon Jehovah, hearts are fully blest! Finding as He promised, perfect peace and rest"

We are reconciled to the Father through the Son, Who does not change, therefore, our reconciliation is certain.

Why do you find this understanding important to you, that Jesus is in fact God?

Much love!


Psalm 45:7--Hebrews 1:3-4 shows Jesus is not God. Your translations are filled with contradictory errors to fit false council teachings.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Jack, I am not questioning that salvation is only through the blood of Jesus. I'm questioning why, for those who think Jesus is God (which I assume includes both of us), why you feel that is important. Is it because you deem it to be a necessary element of salvation?



According to Paul, it’s the Bottom Line way to see if you are Saved or not.... “ Nobody can say that ‘ Jesus is Lord’ ( God in the flesh) without having the Holy Spirit within them” ....if you have that “ Holy Spirit” in you , you have been “ Born Again”—— you are Saved....
Those that can NOT say that ( sincerely of course) are “ None of His” ......
 

TLHKAJ

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According to Paul, it’s the Bottom Line way to see if you are Saved or not.... “ Nobody can say that ‘ Jesus is Lord’ ( God in the flesh) without having the Holy Spirit within them” ....if you have that “ Holy Spirit” in you , you have been “ Born Again”—— you are Saved....
Those that can NOT say that ( sincerely of course) are “ None of His” ......
As validation and verification, here is the scripture.

1 Corinthians 12:3
[3]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


The word translated "Lord" is this.

Greek: κύριος
Transliteration: kurios
Pronunciation: koo'-ree-os
Definition: From κῦρος kuros (supremacy);
supreme in authority that is (as noun) controller; by implication Mr . (as a respectful title): - God Lord master Sir.
KJV Usage: Lord (667x), lord (54x), master (11x), sir (6x), Sir (6x), misc (4x).
Occurs: 748
In verses: 687


Romans 8:9
[9]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 

RedFan

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Because man is fallen. That's the whole point. A man (after fallen Adam) cannot be that sinless, spotless lamb. It makes total sense to me. But I guess you're having a difficult time grasping it. And btw, the Word is God.

What I'm having a difficult time grasping is WHY God NEEDED to choose the Crucifixion of the Son as the method for His forgiveness of sin.

Several theories have been advanced to explain what happened on Calvary, all of them using the language of “payment” in describing the sacrifice. The “ransom” theory, see Matt. 28:20/Mark 10:45, suggests that by sinning mankind became Satan’s captives, and Christ gave himself as a ransom to redeem mankind from Satan’s dominion, resulting in what Rom. 6:16 characterizes as a change of masters. Origen, Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa all championed this theory.

In contrast, the “restitutional” or “penal substitution” theory, initially developed by Anselm and refined by Calvin, holds that Christ paid the penalty for mankind’s sin―a death penalty which had been imposed by God since the Fall of Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:17)―and thereby satisfied the legitimate demands of God’s justice.

In his Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians (Graebner trans., Zondervan 1949), Luther comments on Gal. 3:20: “We are the offending party; God is the party offended. The offense is of such a nature that God cannot pardon it.Why not? No matter what the “offense” is (original sin inherited from Adam; our own personal actions contravening God’s law; fill in the blank yourself), what is it about the nature of the offense that renders it unforgivable without the sacrifice of Christ on the cross?
 
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TLHKAJ

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@RedFan your answers are in the Word of God. If that isn't enough, I can't help you. Ask Him.
 
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Wrangler

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Why does shedding of blood equate to forgiveness. I know sacrifices was the custom and tradition, but I can't see how logically the act of killing something, an act of violence (or death if u don't see it as violent). What is the reasoning behind the act causing forgiveness.

~1700 years before Christ, the Angel of Death passed over the house of Israel upon the condition they put blood of a lamb on the door. So, substitutionary punishment had been established for millenia.

What I'm having a difficult time grasping is WHY God NEEDED to choose the Crucifixion of the Son as the method for His forgiveness of sin.

God has no needs. And it is best not to grabble with WHY or HOW. It's beyond our pay grade. What pathway for salvation do you prefer our Creator made for us?
 

Keiw

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"For those who think Jesus is God - Why is that important"
It is very important. Jesus is the ONLY true Savior. Those who don't believe that Jesus is God have a different savior.


The psalmist knows Jesus has a God like we do-Psalm 45:7--Jesus knows he has a God like we do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- Paul knows Jesus has a God like we do-- Ephesians 1:13,17--2Cor 1:3--Coll 1:3-- Peter knows Jesus has a God like we do- 1Peter 1:3
So if you believe God has a God, you are the one being mislead. By translation errors by the religion that came out of Rome to fit false council teachings.
Jesus is 100% clear at John 17:1-6,26--He calls his Father, the one who sent him-THE ONLY TRUE GOD, verse 6- YHWH(Jehovah) verse 26 = YHWH(Jehovah)--believe Jesus.
 

Jack

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Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 

stephen64

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Where does Scripture say Jesus is God and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved?
The theological mind of man is a trap, when leading him in his thinking concerning spiritual matters. For the academic mind of man cannot lead him into truth. Many, following the theological mind will tell you(in effect), you are condemned if you stand on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth:
The Father is the only true God John17:3
The Father is greater than I John14:28
The Father is greater than all John 10:29

Scripture says you must believe in the name Son of God to be saved, no more. God bless
 

JohnPaul

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Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever.

I YHWH change not, therefore, you, O Jacob, are not consumed!

If Jesus were not God, Jesus would be subject to change. Since Jesus IS God, He does not change, therefore,

We have an anchor sure and steadfast, reaching through the veil.

"Stayed upon Jehovah, hearts are fully blest! Finding as He promised, perfect peace and rest"

We are reconciled to the Father through the Son, Who does not change, therefore, our reconciliation is certain.

Why do you find this understanding important to you, that Jesus is in fact God?

Much love!
Jesus is the Son of Jehovah, not Jehovah himself.
 

RedFan

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~1700 years before Christ, the Angel of Death passed over the house of Israel upon the condition they put blood of a lamb on the door. So, substitutionary punishment had been established for millenia.



God has no needs. And it is best not to grabble with WHY or HOW. It's beyond our pay grade. What pathway for salvation do you prefer our Creator made for us?

The WHY matters to me. I want to at least try to understand it. If not here, what would be a good forum for me to engage, in an effort to make sense out of all of this?
 

Wrangler

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The WHY matters to me. I want to at least try to understand it. If not here, what would be a good forum for me to engage, in an effort to make sense out of all of this?

I understand. You have to accept Scripture for what it is and not grabble with what it isn't. Years ago, I complained that it was not written in an easy how to manual. I was annoyed that Sermons would jump around, not only from chapter to chapter but book to book to make their point. I asked why couldn't it be written so all things relevant to Subject X were in one place?

The simplest WHY to understand is the text was not written for a 21st century American. It was written for a different people with a different language and a different culture. For instance, 'download the app' means something to us. It does not mean anything to the writers of Scripture, those who lived during those times and likely will have no meaning to people in 3,000 years.

Another example is the meaning of 'giving someone the finger.' The significance and symbolism is culturally dependent.

Keep in mind Isaiah 55:8-9, his ways are higher than our ways. The Crucifixion was an instrument of torture and terrorism. God chose to 'flip the script.' Jesus is a master at it. Now, people around the world look at that symbol to mean hope, love and redemption. Praise God!

Hope this helps.
 

Johann

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Why do you find this understanding important to you, that Jesus is in fact God?


These Bible verses are to show and prove that Jesus is God unlike what the Mormons teach. The Pharisees were angered because Jesus claimed to be God. If you claim Jesus is not God what makes you different from the Pharisees?

Christian quotes about Jesus being God
“Jesus is the only God who has a date in history.”

“Jesus Christ God’s Son died for me. Jesus rose from the grave for me, Jesus represents me, Jesus is for me. Jesus will raise me when I die. Your gods body or your religious body that you worship is still in the grave for he or she is not God. Only Jesus God’s Son is God. Worship Him.

“Jesus was God in the form of man. That’s hard for people to swallow that, even today, that “He was God.” That’s what He was. He wasn’t nothing less than God. He was God manifested in flesh.”

“If Jesus is not God, then there is no Christianity, and we who worship Him are nothing more than idolaters. Conversely, if He is God, those who say He was merely a good man, or even the best of men, are blasphemers. More serious still, if He is not God, then He is a blasphemer in the fullest sense of the word. If He is not God, He is not even good.” J. Oswald Sanders

“We tend to focus our attention at Christmas on the infancy of Christ. The greater truth of the holiday is His deity. More astonishing than a baby in the manger is the truth that this promised baby is the omnipotent Creator of the heavens and the earth!” John F. MacArthur

“If Jesus Christ is not true God, how could he help us? If he is not true man, how could he help us?” — Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Jesus Christ is God in human flesh, and the story of His life, death, and resurrection is the only Good News the world will ever hear.” Billy Graham

“Either Jesus is the Son of God ; or a madman or worse. But His being just a great teacher? He’s not left that open to us.” C.S. Lewis

“The deity of Christ is the key doctrine of the scriptures. Reject it, and the Bible becomes a jumble of words without any unifying theme. Accept it, and the Bible becomes an intelligible and ordered revelation of God in the person of Jesus Christ.” J. Oswald Sanders

“Only by being both deity and humanity could Jesus Christ bridge the gap between where God is.” — David Jeremiah

“To see what God is like, we must look at Jesus. He perfectly represents God to men in a form which they can see and know and understand.” — William Barclay

“Touching His human nature, Jesus is no longer present with us. Touching his Divine nature, He is never absent from us.” — R.C. Sproul

“God’s nature is revealed most perfectly in the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in the New Testament of the Bible, who was sent by God to reveal the divine nature, summarized in ‘God is Love.’” — George F. R. Ellis

What does the Bible say about Jesus being God?

1. John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”


2. Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”

3. John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

4. John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

5. Colossians 2:9-10 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“

Jesus claimed to be God verses
John 10:33 "because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.“

7. John 5:18 “This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.“

Jesus is the Word verses
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
8. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.“

9. John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven.

10. 1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“

11. Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I am He

12. John 8:57-58 “The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

13. John 8:22-24 “This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?” But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

14. John 13:18-19 “I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’ “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.

First and Last: There’s only one God
"I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
15. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.”

16. 1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

17. Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.“

18. Revelation 1:17-18 “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.“

Only God can be worshiped. Jesus was worshiped.
19. Matthew 2:1-2 “After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

20. Matthew 28:8-9 “So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.“

Jesus is prayed to revealing that He is God
21. Acts 7:59-60 “And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.“


The Trinity: Is Jesus God?
22. Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

23. 2 Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”

Biblical examples
24. John 20:27-28 “Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

25. 2 Peter 1:1 “Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.“

..also, many OT scripture references that Christ Jesus is God...

25 Important Bible Verses That Say Jesus Is God
 
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RedFan

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Keep in mind Isaiah 55:8-9, his ways are higher than our ways. The Crucifixion was an instrument of torture and terrorism. God chose to 'flip the script.' Jesus is a master at it. Now, people around the world look at that symbol to mean hope, love and redemption. Praise God!

Hope this helps.

Not a lot. As I analyze the Crucifixion, I ask whether it was necessary for forgiveness of our sins. If it wasn't, and was just God's chosen means from among other alternative ways to forgive our sins, why would He choose this one? And if it WAS the only available alternative, what does that say about Him and His power to forgive?
 

Wrangler

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Not a lot. As I analyze the Crucifixion, I ask whether it was necessary for forgiveness of our sins.

I see you are stuck on 'need' and 'necessity.' The more insightful focus is sin. Sin means separation from God. God is life. So, sin is death. Death a is necessary consequence for our sinful choices. Do you understand this?

If it wasn't, and was just God's chosen means from among other alternative ways to forgive our sins, why would He choose this one? And if it WAS the only available alternative, what does that say about Him and His power to forgive?

Have you prayed on this? Have you read Scripture seeking answers? Keep asking, knocking on the door of knowledge and seek out your answers.

I asked earlier how would you prefer God reconcile our rebellion to him, if not the way he chose?
 

Jane_Doe22

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These Bible verses are to show and prove that Jesus is God unlike what the Mormons teach. The Pharisees were angered because Jesus claimed to be God. If you claim Jesus is not God what makes you different from the Pharisees?

Christian quotes about Jesus being God
“Jesus is the only God who has a date in history.”

“Jesus Christ God’s Son died for me. Jesus rose from the grave for me, Jesus represents me, Jesus is for me. Jesus will raise me when I die. Your gods body or your religious body that you worship is still in the grave for he or she is not God. Only Jesus God’s Son is God. Worship Him.

“Jesus was God in the form of man. That’s hard for people to swallow that, even today, that “He was God.” That’s what He was. He wasn’t nothing less than God. He was God manifested in flesh.”

“If Jesus is not God, then there is no Christianity, and we who worship Him are nothing more than idolaters. Conversely, if He is God, those who say He was merely a good man, or even the best of men, are blasphemers. More serious still, if He is not God, then He is a blasphemer in the fullest sense of the word. If He is not God, He is not even good.” J. Oswald Sanders

“We tend to focus our attention at Christmas on the infancy of Christ. The greater truth of the holiday is His deity. More astonishing than a baby in the manger is the truth that this promised baby is the omnipotent Creator of the heavens and the earth!” John F. MacArthur

“If Jesus Christ is not true God, how could he help us? If he is not true man, how could he help us?” — Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Jesus Christ is God in human flesh, and the story of His life, death, and resurrection is the only Good News the world will ever hear.” Billy Graham

“Either Jesus is the Son of God ; or a madman or worse. But His being just a great teacher? He’s not left that open to us.” C.S. Lewis

“The deity of Christ is the key doctrine of the scriptures. Reject it, and the Bible becomes a jumble of words without any unifying theme. Accept it, and the Bible becomes an intelligible and ordered revelation of God in the person of Jesus Christ.” J. Oswald Sanders

“Only by being both deity and humanity could Jesus Christ bridge the gap between where God is.” — David Jeremiah

“To see what God is like, we must look at Jesus. He perfectly represents God to men in a form which they can see and know and understand.” — William Barclay

“Touching His human nature, Jesus is no longer present with us. Touching his Divine nature, He is never absent from us.” — R.C. Sproul

“God’s nature is revealed most perfectly in the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in the New Testament of the Bible, who was sent by God to reveal the divine nature, summarized in ‘God is Love.’” — George F. R. Ellis

What does the Bible say about Jesus being God?

1. John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”


2. Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”

3. John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

4. John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

5. Colossians 2:9-10 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“

Jesus claimed to be God verses
John 10:33 "because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.“

7. John 5:18 “This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.“

Jesus is the Word verses
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
8. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.“

9. John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven.

10. 1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“

11. Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I am He

12. John 8:57-58 “The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

13. John 8:22-24 “This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?” But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

14. John 13:18-19 “I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’ “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.

First and Last: There’s only one God
"I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6
15. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.”

16. 1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

17. Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.“

18. Revelation 1:17-18 “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.“

Only God can be worshiped. Jesus was worshiped.
19. Matthew 2:1-2 “After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

20. Matthew 28:8-9 “So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.“

Jesus is prayed to revealing that He is God
21. Acts 7:59-60 “And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.“


The Trinity: Is Jesus God?
22. Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

23. 2 Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”

Biblical examples
24. John 20:27-28 “Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

25. 2 Peter 1:1 “Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.“

..also, many OT scripture references that Christ Jesus is God...

25 Important Bible Verses That Say Jesus Is God
<Actual “Mormon” here>
“Mormons” believe that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God, always has been, always will be. He + the Father + the Holy Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God.