For those who think Jesus is God - Why is that important?

[marks]

Not a lot. As I analyze the Crucifixion, I ask whether it was necessary for forgiveness of our sins. If it wasn't, and was just God's chosen means from among other alternative ways to forgive our sins, why would He choose this one? And if it WAS the only available alternative, what does that say about Him and His power to forgive?

When I begin with the premise, "God is love", then I conclude this is the one way that He will achieve His intent. That He have an eternal family of those who in reality love Him. The Only real love is voluntary, and the only voluntary love that can come from eternal creations is that which is chosen. This requires opportunity to choose, and means wrong choices have real consequences.

Man is not intrinsically good, as God is, and therefore man is not stable, and is subject to fall. Jesus is our rescue, in having made the choice in a fallen humanity, we are then moved to a new humanity, made alive by Jesus Christ Himself, Who IS intrinsically good, and therefore, we will be alive with Him forever.

The necessity for Jesus' death and resurrection is that in sharing this, we are freed from the law of sin and death. The soul that sins dies. We've died in Christ, a "survivable death".

Much love!

 

[Windmillcharge]

If you(the disciples) forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven John20:23

And the context is as an already forgiven sinner who knows Jesus.
It does not mean that one ot the parents at this weeks school shooting can say that the shooters sins are forgiven.

 

[RedFan]

And the context is as an already forgiven sinner who knows Jesus.
It does not mean that one ot the parents at this weeks school shooting can say that the shooters sins are forgiven.

I don't see the context as restricting the disciples' forgiveness of sins to sinners who already believe. Maybe you can identify that contextual limitation for us.

Shifting from the forgiver to the forgivee for a moment -- Would you say the same about Matt. 6:14? Is forgiving others, without more, enough to avoid judgment – or more precisely, enough to be judged positively on Judgment Day and have our own sins forgiven regardless of being in the "sinner who knows Jesus" category?

 

[stephen64]

And the context is as an already forgiven sinner who knows Jesus.
It does not mean that one ot the parents at this weeks school shooting can say that the shooters sins are forgiven.

Ah con text. The text does not say what your con text is suggesting

 

[Episkopos]

When we enter INTO Christ we take on His perfection to become "perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect". Of course this perfection is according to holy purity....not maturity...which is something that must be walked out.

No one can enter into another person in this way. Jesus is God. He is a quickening Spirit.

What is difficult for us to comprehend is that He is also fully human.

There is a great mystery here in that it is easy to miss something in that duality.

Jesus came to fulfill ALL righteousness. Both human righteousness and divine righteousness. Jesus played on two playing fields at the same time. If that was not possible then we could never walk as He walked. We are only human. BUT, in Him we take on His anointing to take on His holiness and righteousness.

"But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" 1 Cor. 1:30

In Him we also fulfill ALL righteousness as He did. As He is so are we in this world....when we "put on" Christ.

We are also to be inwardly conformed to Christ in character and maturity. This is the "Christ in you" the hope of glory.
We have this treasure in earthen vessels. Now, no one can put on Christ unless He is already present as a template in their spirit. Otherwise what or who are we being conformed to?

So we have Christ in us...and are called to enter INTO Christ to walk as He walked. We are to be molded and stretched into Christ's likeness through suffering, patience and the training of God. Anything less and we are not fulfilling the high calling which is IN Christ.

 

[ChristisGod]

When I begin with the premise, "God is love", then I conclude this is the one way that He will achieve His intent. That He have an eternal family of those who in reality love Him. The Only real love is voluntary, and the only voluntary love that can come from eternal creations is that which is chosen. This requires opportunity to choose, and means wrong choices have real consequences.

Man is not intrinsically good, as God is, and therefore man is not stable, and is subject to fall. Jesus is our rescue, in having made the choice in a fallen humanity, we are then moved to a new humanity, made alive by Jesus Christ Himself, Who IS intrinsically good, and therefore, we will be alive with Him forever.

The necessity for Jesus' death and resurrection is that in sharing this, we are freed from the law of sin and death. The soul that sins dies. We've died in Christ, a "survivable death".

Much love!

Well said !

God is love is at the core of Gods nature as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is love is at the center of the gospel- For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Love is at the center of the commandments and they are all summed up as Jesus taught with loving God with all our heart, soul and strength and loving your neighbor as you do yourself. Love is at the center of our witness to a lost world as Jesus said all men will know you are my disciples by your love for one another. And last but not least its the greatest of the gifts , graces and virtues in the Christian life- Now remains faith , hope and love but the greatest of these is love.

So what I always ask myself in the mirror is how is my love life ? How am I demonstrating daily that I really love God and how does that reflect in my relationships with everyone.

 

[marks]

Well said !

God is love is at the core of Gods nature as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is love is at the center of the gospel- For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Love is at the center of the commandments and they are all summed up as Jesus taught with loving God with all our heart, soul and strength and loving your neighbor as you do yourself. Love is at the center of our witness to a lost world as Jesus said all men will know you are my disciples by your love for one another. And last but not least its the greatest of the gifts , graces and virtues in the Christian life- Now remains faith , hope and love but the greatest of these is love.

So what I always ask myself in the mirror is how is my love life ? How am I demonstrating daily that I really love God and how does that reflect in my relationships with everyone.

Love was why God created the heavens and the earth, I think! That God created us for the purpose of receiving from Himself the greatest gift that can be, His Very Self.

Our sin prevented the receiving of that gift of His Love, but in Christ we are free to receive.

I find our thinking seems so much of the time wrapped up in guilt and fear, when God in Christ reconciled us to His so we can be free of those things, fully immersed into His love.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How am I demonstrating daily that I really love God and how does that reflect in my relationships with everyone.

That is THE question for the day!

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Love was why God created the heavens and the earth, I think! That God created us for the purpose of receiving from Himself the greatest gift that can be, His Very Self.

Our sin prevented the receiving of that gift of His Love, but in Christ we are free to receive.

I find our thinking seems so much of the time wrapped up in guilt and fear, when God in Christ reconciled us to His so we can be free of those things, fully immersed into His love.

Much love!

Amen

 

[bbyrd009]

Not a lot. As I analyze the Crucifixion, I ask whether it was necessary for forgiveness of our sins. If it wasn't, and was just God's chosen means from among other alternative ways to forgive our sins, why would He choose this one? And if it WAS the only available alternative, what does that say about Him and His power to forgive?

you do get that Furthermore, the Father judges no one…right

 

[bbyrd009]

Why does shedding of blood equate to forgiveness. I know sacrifices was the custom and tradition, but I can't see how logically the act of killing something, an act of violence (or death if u don't see it as violent). What is the reasoning behind the act causing forgiveness.

For under the law nearly every sin requires blood

nice catch imo
you are at a very important “secret” now,
I detest your sacrifices
true sacrifice is _______
I desire mercy, not sacrifice
on and on

The necessity for Jesus' death and resurrection is that in sharing this

or iow people needed it, not Yah, as is made plain in the Esau/Jacob cycle

 

[marks]

BUT, in Him we take on His anointing to take on His holiness and righteousness.

We are also to be inwardly conformed to Christ in character and maturity. This is the "Christ in you" the hope of glory.

2 Corinthians 3:18 LITV
But we all with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord Spirit.

Much love!

 

[Windmillcharge]

I don't see the context as restricting the disciples' forgiveness of sins to sinners who already believe. Maybe you can identify that contextual limitation for us.

Shifting from the forgiver to the forgivee for a moment -- Would you say the same about Matt. 6:14? Is forgiving others, without more, enough to avoid judgment – or more precisely, enough to be judged positively on Judgment Day and have our own sins forgiven regardless of being in the "sinner who knows Jesus" category?

Forgiveness is always conditional on repentance.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Ah con text. The text does not say what your con text is suggesting

Through out thebible forgiveness is linked conditionally to repentance.
The disciples as devout Jews would be used to the ritual of offering sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins. They knew unless the acted in repentance their sins could not be forgiven.

How else would you understand this verse?

 

[Wrangler]

Love was why God created ...

True but not the point of this thread.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son

Do you realize the impossibility of God being Jesus in this sentence? NOTE: It does not say God gave himself or God became incarnate.

It is a matter of basic reading comprehension. There are subjects of a sentence and objects of a sentence. The subject is the one doing the action. The object is passively being acted upon. Consider:

Christophany gave his last dollar.
S = Christophany
O = last dollar.
C. Last dollar ≠ Christophany.
​

The same with John 3:16:

S = God
O = only begotten Son.
C. 'only begotten Son' ≠ God
​

I do love the thread subject 'For those who think Jesus is God - Why is that important?' but have not read a coherent answer related to Scripture.

 

[ChristisGod]

True but not the point of this thread.



Do you realize the impossibility of God being Jesus in this sentence? NOTE: It does not say God gave himself or God became incarnate.

It is a matter of basic reading comprehension. There are subjects of a sentence and objects of a sentence. The subject is the one doing the action. The object is passively being acted upon. Consider:

Christophany gave his last dollar.
S = Christophany
O = last dollar.
C. Last dollar ≠ Christophany.
​

The same with John 3:16:

S = God
O = only begotten Son.
C. 'only begotten Son' ≠ God
​

I do love the thread subject 'For those who think Jesus is God - Why is that important?' but have not read a coherent answer related to Scripture.

typical of those who reject the truth of who the Scripture calls God on numerous occasions- the Son.

 

[Wrangler]

typical of those who reject the truth of who the Scripture calls God on numerous occasions- the Son.

Not once is this true and rather than admit, you resort to some kind of personal attack.

Christophany. The son of Christophany. Not the same being. If you are interpreting them as the same, it is your reading comprehension rather than what Scripture actually says.

Owner (God). Property owned (Jesus). Not the same. Christophany so loved the world that he gave his last dollar. Silly to conclude the object of the sentence (only begotten Son) is the subject of the sentence. (God, in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature).

typical of those who reject the truth of who the Scripture calls God on numerous occasions- the Father.

 

[ChristisGod]

Not once is this true and rather than admit, you resort to some kind of personal attack.

Christophany. The son of Christophany. Not the same being. If you are interpreting them as the same, it is your reading comprehension rather than what Scripture actually says.

Owner (God). Property owned (Jesus). Not the same. Christophany so loved the world that he gave his last dollar. Silly to conclude the object of the sentence (only begotten Son) is the subject of the sentence. (God, in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature).

typical of those who reject the truth of who the Scripture calls God on numerous occasions- the Father.

Wrong again.

The son of man means having the nature of a man, a human, a human nature. That is the definition in the OT from Ezekiel and Daniel.

The Son of God means having the nature of God, a Divine nature. That is the Definition in the N.T.

Its why He is called both man and God throughout Scripture because He has 2 natures.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Its why He is called both man and God throughout Scripture because He has 2 natures.

You are adding your doctrine to what Scripture says. Math is not your strong suit in suggesting 2 natures. Such mystical dualism is how trinitarianism seeks to escape logic.

The Bible repeatedly says Jesus is a man. Not one time does Scripture say half his nature is man Not one time does Scripture say Jesus is God or God The Son. But it does say God The Father.

What is missing should mean something to you.

 

[ChristisGod]

You are adding your doctrine to what Scripture says. Math is not your strong suit in suggesting 2 natures. Such mystical dualism is how trinitarianism seeks to escape logic.

The Bible repeatedly says Jesus is a man. Not one time does Scripture say half his nature is man Not one time does Scripture say Jesus is God or God The Son. But it does say God The Father.

What is missing should mean something to you.

rofl God is not a "math" equation and is UNIQUE with NOTHING in creation to compare.

Bible 101- you seem to have missed that memo.

but hey back to your god math stuff