Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[Eternally Grateful]

Answer the question or not.

God had ths good grace to allow salvation in spite of ourselves, now prove to him you are serios about it and either be obedient and do good, or don't.

God does not need proof, he knows my heart, that’s why ALL who have true faith have works, because he knows who has true faith, he chose them before the foundation of the world, based on the fact he knows them

Maybe your God needs proof?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Except that is not what Christ said in the scripture....you are making things up again. Show me where in that scripture he says that?

You keep mk3ing things up, especially when it comes to what Christ said, I will keep calling you on it.

Wow

Nope

jesus did not say whoever believes and does all these works are not condemned, but he who does not believe or believes but has no works is condemned already

I added nothing, you on the other hand can’t get out of your own way and let he who began a good work complete it. Because you have no faith he will complete it like he promised

 

[TheslightestID]

then again Jesus did Not say do good then you go to heaven.

Of course he did.

He said, and I repeat:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

What, pray tell, do you think "rise to live" means, as opposed to rise to be condemned? It means rise to go to heaven.

This is plain english, and you really think you are going to convince these folks the bible doesn't say something that it does? It's not so complicated you can twist it into something it is not.

 

[TheslightestID]

God does not need proof, he knows my heart, that’s why ALL who have true faith have works, because he knows who has true faith, he chose them before the foundation of the world, based on the fact he knows them

Maybe your God needs proof?

What???

You are still dancing around not answering. Most here already know you can't answer, so not sure why you keep drawing attention to that fact.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course he did.

He said, and I repeat:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

What, pray tell, do you think "rise to live" means, as opposed to rise to be condemned? It means rise to go to heaven.

This is plain english, and you really think you are going to convince these folks the bible doesn't say something that it does? It's not so complicated you can twist it into something it is not.

Once again

he did NT say if you do good, you g to heaven, he said those who have done good

we do good because we have faith, a child of god can’t sin, if we are not living in sin we are doing good

it’s descriptive not prescriptive

John did not contradict himself, neither did jesus

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What???

You are still dancing around not answering. Most here already know you can't answer, so not sure why you keep drawing attention to that fact.

Dude, your arrogance is deep

you refuse to admit you work for salvation even though you have said it numerous times.

and I have answered your question multiple times now. Just because you do not like me answer does not mean I have not answered,

your are bordering on being deemed a troll

 

[TheslightestID]

jesus did not say whoever believes and does all these works are not condemned,

Im satisfied you are very confused, and are having a very hard time understanding plain english, and you have a huge tendency to just make things up when you are on the losing end.

I have done my best to help you, to no avail.

 

[kcnalp]

see, there yu go being sarcastic again.

Why is it you can not answer a simple question?

How should I take it when you are given questions that are simple. and all you can do is come back with a mocking answer?

It's quite amusing watching OSASers judge NON OSASers as unsaved. Sad, but amusing.

 

[TheslightestID]

Once again

he did NT say if you do good, you g to heaven, he said those who have done good

LOL!

Hopeless

 

[TheslightestID]

Just because you do not like me answer does not mean I have not answered,

Nope, because you have not answered means you have not answered.

 

[mailmandan]

I was just confused.

Dead faith, is that not the same as no faith?

I call it mere belief. even demons believe yet tremble.

A dead faith does not work because it has no trust.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

 

[mailmandan]

So your denying you said “We do both faith and works for salvation.“

please Let Me know if you deny you said it so I can move on

We do both faith and works FOR salvation is clearly teaching we are saved by both faith AND works in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture (those who have done good - John 5:29) with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture (He who believes in Him is not condemned - John 3:18).

So in John 5:29, we notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (Matthew 7:17) We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture or else we end up with works salvation/works righteousness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Amen brother. It’s sad how people misapply James and demand James is speaking about earning salvation by works, when he is not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Im satisfied you are very confused, and are having a very hard time understanding plain english, and you have a huge tendency to just make things up when you are on the losing end.

I have done my best to help you, to no avail.

And I am satisfied you are some person who does not understand biblical truth. Even though many here have tried to show you your pride is to deep.

I have made nothing up, yu on the other hand are stuck on one verse,,well good luck

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's quite amusing watching OSASers judge NON OSASers as unsaved. Sad, but amusing.

No even worth responding to this mocking statement anymore

when you want to actually talk and not judge look me up, I would love to have a conversation with you,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL!

Hopeless

Yeah you appear to be just that..

It’s funny, I said it must be of grace or works it can’t be both, you asked me to show you, I did, you ignored it

you keep bringing up one passage, I should yu many other passages that say the opposite, yu do not even acknowledge them. You keep badgering and mocking based on one passage, which when taking you way causes Jesus to contradict himself, but you could care less. Let’s just mock the one who disagrees with you, make everything think he does not know anything so you can puff yourself up,,

news flash my friend, people will not buy it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, because you have not answered means you have not answered.

Well I did multiple times

funny how you even asked me to show where you claimed you try to earn your salvation and when I made it so you could no longer deny it anymore, you stopped responding to that line of reasoning,

and here you want to try to mock me

I am sick of your childish behavior, so when your ready to talk like grown adults let me know

 

[mailmandan]

I don't recall anyone here saying they are saved by works..

How about now? "We do both faith and works for salvation" says it all. The same poster also said, "..salvation is obtained by faith, as in believing in God, plus works.." Clear case of salvation by faith and works.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How about now? "We do both faith and works for salvation" says it all. The same poster also said, "..salvation is obtained by faith, as in believing in God, plus works.." Clear case of salvation by faith and works.

Got to love it

person A. We are saved by faith plus wrks

person B. You teach salvation by works

person A. I never said such a thing

 

[mailmandan]

Got to love it

person A. We are saved by faith plus wrks

person B. You teach salvation by works

person A. I never said such a thing

That's exactly right! Such people may try to dance around that by saying, "well I don't teach salvation by works alone" or we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. I will never forget a conversation that I once had with a Roman Catholic in which I stated to him that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and the Roman Catholic claimed to agree with me and he even stated that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works. Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic contracted himself and interpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such: We are saved by grace through faith "infused" with works (good works/works of obedience etc..) just not by specific works of the law. Saved by faith + "these" works (good works/works of obedience etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the law) is what that Roman Catholic was teaching.

I discovered the root of the problem of the Roman Catholic misinterpretation. That Roman Catholic also made this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about the Roman Catholic church not teaching salvation by works, then contradicting himself afterwards by saying that faith is "defined as" and "INCLUDES" these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation by faith (his version of faith) + works. Others are basically saying the same thing when they make statements like this below:

We are not saved by works, but we must do works to be saved...it is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit...salvation is obtained by faith, plus works...doing good is part of salvation...commandments are kept as part of faith...faith includes works.

Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. We are saved through faith apart from the merit of works, yet authentic faith in Christ that is unto salvation does not remain apart from the presence of works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; James 2:14-26)