Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[Eternally Grateful]

That's exactly right! Such people may try to dance around that by saying, "well I don't teach salvation by works alone" or we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. I will never forget a conversation that I once had with a Roman Catholic in which I stated to him that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and the Roman Catholic claimed to agree with me and he even stated that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works. Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic contracted himself and interpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such: We are saved by grace through faith "infused" with works (good works/works of obedience etc..) just not by specific works of the law. Saved by faith + "these" works (good works/works of obedience etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the law) is what that Roman Catholic was teaching.

I discovered the root of the problem of the Roman Catholic misinterpretation. That Roman Catholic also made this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about the Roman Catholic church not teaching salvation by works, then contradicting himself afterwards by saying that faith is "defined as" and "INCLUDES" these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation by faith (his version of faith) + works. Others are basically saying the same thing when they make statements like this below:

We are not saved by works, but we must do works to be saved...it is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit...salvation is obtained by faith, plus works...doing good is part of salvation...commandments are kept as part of faith...faith includes works.

Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. We are saved through faith apart from the merit of works, yet authentic faith in Christ that is unto salvation does not remain apart from the presence of works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; James 2:14-26)

Anyway satan can infuse works into the gospel he will. Yet mankind continues to fall for it after thousands of years of examples where it has nit worked out

sadly we keep making the same
Mistake while excusing it as we are not the same. Yet in reality all works based salvation is the same. Especially in Gods eyes

 

[kcnalp]

No even worth responding to this mocking statement anymore

when you want to actually talk and not judge look me up, I would love to have a conversation with you,

You know as well as I do that anyone who disagrees with OSAS is judged as unsaved by OSASers! The implication is nearly always there! That's called judging others! OSASers love to judge others as unsaved to "prove" their unBiblical OSAS doctrine!

 

[mailmandan]

Anyway satan can infuse works into the gospel he will. Yet mankind continues to fall for it after thousands of years of examples where it has nit worked out

sadly we keep making the same
Mistake while excusing it as we are not the same. Yet in reality all works based salvation is the same. Especially in Gods eyes

There may be a difference in style in various forms of works based salvation, but it's the same in substance - "works based false gospel." Trying to "infuse" works into the gospel is trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.

 

[kcnalp]

How about now? "We do both faith and works for salvation" says it all. The same poster also said, "..salvation is obtained by faith, as in believing in God, plus works.." Clear case of salvation by faith and works.

If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You know as well as I do that anyone who disagrees with OSAS is judged as unsaved by OSASers! The implication is nearly always there! That's called judging others! OSASers love to judge others as unsaved to "prove" their unBiblical OSAS doctrine!

I could care less about this

I want to talk about what the word says. Not that fact you are offended what some people might say. I am offended you wish to add works to salvation, but that’s beside the point, let’s talk about the word. If you do not want to. That’s fine. I will not discuss it with you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian.

Yet we are not saved by works

period!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Works are not a part of the gospel, they are the result of the gospel

 

[mailmandan]

If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian.

Christian works are the evidence of being a Christian, but are not the cause of becoming a Christian.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yet we are not saved by works

period!

Everyone knows this. But what few know is if you don't act on your faith, you won't be saved when Jesus comes back. Because not acting on your faith is nothing more than a rejection of that faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Christian works are the evidence of being a Christian, but are not the cause of becoming a Christian.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, I mean apart from the few fringe denominations that say your works earn your salvation. I can't think of any names right off hand. What Christians don't understand is choosing not to put your faith to work in obedience to God's commands is the equivalent of turning your back on Christ. In effect, choosing not to believe. The scary part being that person thinks they are believing in Christ. That's not a works gospel but many people erroneously say it is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Christian works are the evidence of being a Christian, but are not the cause of becoming a Christian.

And I don't think he's saying that at all. I think we are all in agreement that works do not earn salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, I mean apart from the few fringe denominations that say your works earn your salvation. I can't think of any names right off hand. What Christians don't understand is choosing not to put your faith to work in obedience to God's commands is the equivalent of turning your back on Christ. In effect, choosing not to believe. The scary part being that person thinks they are believing in Christ. That's not a works gospel but many people erroneously say it is.

There are those who have an empty profession of faith/dead faith that lacks resulting evidential works (James 2:14) yet there are also those who clearly teach we are saved by BOTH faith AND works, yet will try to claim that is not earning salvation. There are some dangerous unbalanced doctrines out there!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There are those who have an empty profession of faith/dead faith that lacks resulting evidential works (James 2:14) yet there are also those who clearly teach we are saved by BOTH faith AND works, yet will try to claim that is not earning salvation. There are some dangerous unbalanced doctrines out there!

Honestly, I think it's mostly a failure to understand what they mean because the Bible does talk about being saved by what you do. Not made righteous (justified) by what you do, but saved by what you do. That means something, but surely it doesn't mean a person earns their salvation by doing works.

 

[tsr]

In return for such forgiveness, Christians are then to forgive others who sin just as deliberately against them, yet repent ( Matthew 6:14-15; Luke 17:3-4 ). They are also not to regard God's grace and mercy to them as permission or a license for them to sin ( Romans 6:1-2 ).

 

[kcnalp]

Christian works are the evidence of being a Christian, but are not the cause of becoming a Christian.

Well that's what I'm saying. Even OSAS is a works religion. So why do OSASers keep pointing out others "works" religion like it's heresy?

 

[kcnalp]

Works are not a part of the gospel, they are the result of the gospel

They sure are!

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[mailmandan]

Well that's what I'm saying. Even OSAS is a works religion. So why do OSASers keep pointing out others "works" religion like it's heresy?

There is a big difference between saved FOR good works and saved BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Salvation “by” works is heresy.

 

[kcnalp]

There is a big difference between saved FOR good works and saved BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Salvation “by” works is heresy.

There is a big difference between saved FOR good works and saved BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Salvation “by” works is heresy.

You think you're saved without "works"? You're wrong.

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[mailmandan]

They sure are!

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

 

[mailmandan]

You think you're saved without "works"? You're wrong.

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We are saved apart from the merit of works, (Romans 4:2-6) yet authentic faith does not remain alone from the presence of works. (James 2:14-26)