Forgiveness vs Atonement

[Episkopos]

All sins are remitted by "the one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus'. because "God hath made Jesus to be sin...for us".

Here, @Episkopos .... let the NT correct your Theology.....Again

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Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

LOL. If you could read with ANY honesty you would see that in each case remission is Aphesis...remission...being made free of sin, made pure. Not forgiveness. This is about an eternal life trumping a temporal one. One law giving us the power to overcome a lower law...so that we walk as Jesus walked. Same life, same power.

But you will continue on in your usual blindness.

 

[Behold]

LOL. If you could read with ANY honesty you would see that in each case remission is Aphesis...remission...being made free of sin, made pure.

You are not the one to be instructing anyone regarding "honesty".
Does not the Book Of Mormon, tell you so?

Listen..

Paul was "blameless in the Law"..

You can't be more self righteous then that one..

He said that his own righteousness, that was BLAMELESS in the Law........(didnt break any)........was "DUNG".

Philippians 3

Why?
Its because the Righteousness of God, is so far beyond that.......that as compared.......Paul's self righteous works, "blameless in the law" is as DUNG as compared to God's Righteousness.
That is why Paul only teaches "Christ's Righteousness" as "The Righteousness of God in Christ".
Salvation, is God giving the Believer, HIS OWN Righteousness, as without this, God can't accept anyone.

To be SAVED........is to be BORN AGAIN....as a "new creation" "In Christ"....as "THE.... Righteousness of GOD" "In Christ".

 

[Lizbeth]

Reading Samuel, he had to make sacrifices to Yahava. The priests in those days who were from the tribe of Levite, had to perform certain duties while some did right in the sight of Yahava, some did wrong in his sight and were killed for it. Every year, there was a sacrifice for the sins of Israel, and because of this the people's sins they had committed in that year were all forgiven. People would shout and give glory to Yahava, and shout praises towards him. They had been forgiven of their sins because of the atonement that was made by the sacrifice. Jesus fulfilled all those laws and requirements, in order to be able to have those Old Testament commandments given to them fulfilled, in order that all people may have access to Yahava by and through faith. It is amazing, Jesus said, "Eat my of flesh, and to Drink my blood" and he is the tree of life that was hung on the cross, however never did he stay there, he was risen back up by his Father. You keep on reading your bible and trusting God and looking towards his word. Today I believe that Jesus has had the victory, and people are all forgiven - it's now just upon them to make the choice to either serve themselves or serve Yahava. Because in the end all people will be resurrected, good and bad, faithful and faithless and all will given their spiritual body which will be rewarded by the Lord God Almighty, and they will either be able to enter the Kingdom or they will be unable to due to non-faith, non-love, and rightly judged by Him. I could be wrong but it is something that is believed personally by me myself, and no one should ever trust me.

To my understanding, the forgiveness that Israel received under the Law had to do with temporal curses being removed and temporal blessings being granted. But it was not a way to receive eternal life.......the Law only foreshadowed the salvation of eternal life. Temporal blessings foreshadowed the spiritual/eternal blessings we have under the new covenant. Only those OT saints who had FAITH would inherit eternal life.

 

[Lizbeth]

False. Why can you forgive others without any blood being spilled? Are you more merciful than God? Is your god that legalistic and unmerciful. So you are speaking a GREAT falsehood....that prevents you from any kind of deeper truth.

It's funny how you ignore the bible at every turn to promote falsehoods.




You "go back on His word" all the time based on your ignorance of God and His ways. Only those verses that fit your ideology do you see as "His word". Why is it not God's word in the bible if you ignore it?

So you are self-deceived...following your own carnal mind. But your dishonesty is well rehearsed.


No. There is no holiness or freedom from sin without the shedding of blood...a life for a life. The life is in the blood. Unless we lose our lives we cannot enter into Christ and experience His resurrection life.

So WE give up our life to GET HIS life. A life for a life.


It's more than that. It's about holiness...sanctification...making pure as God is pure. I know you like changing the meaning of words to suit a religious ideology. No life there.


A sacrifice has to be given...and accepted...think Abel.

News flash...Jesus did not sacrifice Himself to us to be accepted or not. He sacrificed Himself to His Father and to the evil powers of this world. What the wicked principalities thought was a sacrifice to their own temporal power, God transformed into a source of eternal grace.

Religious posturing...no power or life. This just encourages religious kooks to claim self-righteousness based on ideological beliefs. God is not in it...quite the opposite. Judgment is coming. .

The atonement was for all believers, not just "you who are spiritual." We are not our own because we were bought with a price. ie, redeemed, ransomed.

Forgiveness in the sense of not judging others. God will judge in the end. I believe we can forgive specific sins and thus turn away temporal curses (consequences) from the person having to do with this life (pray for our enemies), but not to the extent of granting eternal life to someone apart from them receiving the Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

To my understanding, the forgiveness that Israel received under the Law had to do with temporal curses being removed and temporal blessings being granted. But it was not a way to receive eternal life.......the Law only foreshadowed the salvation of eternal life. Temporal blessings foreshadowed the spiritual/eternal blessings we have under the new covenant. Only those OT saints who had FAITH would inherit eternal life.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Lizbeth]

The atonement was for all believers, not just "you who are spiritual." We are not our own because we were bought with a price. ie, redeemed, ransomed.

Forgiveness in the sense of not judging others. God will judge in the end. I believe we can forgive specific sins and thus turn away temporal curses (consequences) from the person having to do with this life (pray for our enemies), but not to the extent of granting eternal life to someone apart from them receiving the Lord.

Bible says no one can come to Christ except the Father draws them. And it is in His hands to harden or draw a soul, as scripture also says. How can we forgive someone their overall state of sin? God is judge, to either judge or exonerate/justify a soul, not we. And He has set forth the conditions for exoneration....one must be joined to Him via the new covenant in His blood.

 

[Episkopos]

Bible says no one can come to Christ except the Father draws them. And it is in His hands to harden or draw a soul, as scripture also says. How can we forgive someone their overall state of sin? God is judge, to either judge or exonerate/justify a soul, not we. And He has set forth the conditions for exoneration....one must be joined to Him via the new covenant in His blood.

How can we forgive others? That whole way of seeing shows that you have no idea about what God is looking for. And it reveals a carnal motivation.

What about...How can we not forgive people their sins?

You want an excuse to have mercy. Because you are basically a judgmental person. The bible reveals us even we we think we are interpreting it.

 

[Cassandra]

Because you are basically a judgmental person.

Here pot, here kettle.

 

[Lizbeth]

How can we forgive others? That whole way of seeing shows that you have no idea about what God is looking for. And it reveals a carnal motivation.

What about...How can we not forgive people their sins?

You want an excuse to have mercy. Because you are basically a judgmental person. The bible reveals us even we we think we are interpreting it.

As usual you have no scriptures or anything edifying to bring so you resort to ad hominem attacks. Scripture teaches we are to forgive others when they sin against us. And that we are not to judge others when they sin generally - God will do the judging in the end. You and your followers are not reading my posts very well, or maybe I'm not saying things very well. Nowhere is it stated or implied in God's word that believers can forgive sin to the point of granting eternal life to a soul - it's beyond the pale to believe such a thing, if that is what you believe.

That the Lord is setting aside judgment for now, and having us do the same, is because it's a way of holding the door of grace open for now for souls to find salvation in Christ if they are willing - as Jesus came not to judge but to save. But as the bible also teaches, that door will close at some point and judgment will ensue then. Are you going to accuse the Lord of being judgmental and unforgiving then? Who are you o man? (or any of us) Doesn't the Potter have the right to create different vessels for different purposes? There is a way in which man in his self-righteousness thinks too highly of man and in so doing accuses God of being unrighteous. Remember Lucifer exalts his throne "above" God. Why did Jesus say if you love your father mother brothers sisters or your children more than me you are not worthy of me?

 

[Episkopos]

Scripture teaches we are to forgive others when they sin against us. And that we are not to judge others because God will do the judging in the end. You and your followers are not reading my posts very well I guess.

My followers? You mean Jesus followers. What you are promoting comes from Luther...not Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

False. Why can you forgive others without any blood being spilled? Are you more merciful than God? Is your god that legalistic and unmerciful. So you are speaking a GREAT falsehood....that prevents you from any kind of deeper truth.

1. She is not God
2. God demanded punishment for sin
3. God demanded that punishment is death
4. God can not go against his own perfect justice

It's funny how you ignore the bible at every turn to promote falsehoods.

Like you do?

You "go back on His word" all the time based on your ignorance of God and His ways. Only those verses that fit your ideology do you see as "His word". Why is it not God's word in the bible if you ignore it?

So you are self-deceived...following your own carnal mind. But your dishonesty is well rehearsed.


No. There is no holiness or freedom from sin without the shedding of blood...a life for a life. The life is in the blood. Unless we lose our lives we cannot enter into Christ and experience His resurrection life.

So WE give up our life to GET HIS life. A life for a life.

it does not work that way. We can not pay for our own sin. Because we are guilty.

thats why the lamb had to be without spot (innocent) or it was not received as a sacrifice for sin

It's more than that. It's about holiness...sanctification...making pure as God is pure. I know you like changing the meaning of words to suit a religious ideology. No life there.


A sacrifice has to be given...and accepted...think Abel.

News flash...Jesus did not sacrifice Himself to us to be accepted or not. He sacrificed Himself to His Father and to the evil powers of this world. What the wicked principalities thought was a sacrifice to their own temporal power, God transformed into a source of eternal grace.

Religious posturing...no power or life. This just encourages religious kooks to claim self-righteousness based on ideological beliefs. God is not in it...quite the opposite. Judgment is coming. .

News flash.

Jesus was the lamb of God who took away the sin of the world.

He died so we could be forgiven..

not so we can reject his sacrifice and try to do it on our own

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As false as can be. Remission means its power is no longer functioning. Like a cancer in remission. The gospel is freedom (aphesis) from sin...not just forgiveness. Forgiveness is implied if you are now walking above sin.

The gospel cited in the OT says freedom, liberty from sin...Is. 61:1

H1865
דּרור
derôr
der-ore'
From an unused root (meaning to move rapidly); freedom; hence spontaneity of outflow, and so clear: - liberty, pure.

Jesus didn't come to forgive the prisoners in jail...He came to set them free...free from sin INTO His life, His holiness, His peace, His love, His joy. These are ALL missing from those who are looking to be justified in their carnal condition. What a waste. These are just looking for forgiveness for sins they can't stop doing.


Forgiveness is also required IF we sin AFTER we have been made holy. As such we have an Advocate, Jesus Christ, to plead our case. Perhaps the Lord will let us back into the higher walk...IF we repent and learn from our mistakes.

remission in the OT was when someone purchased the freedom of a slave.

it had nothing to do with power.

 

[Behold]

LOL. If you could read with ANY honesty you would see that in each case remission is Aphesis...remission...being made free of sin, made pure. Not forgiveness.

There is no forgiveness unless the believer is made free from sin.

Its the same thing...

Salvation is not complex, and you try to make it read like a PH.D chemistry test.
That Book of Mormon is one dark passage, fella.
Believe it.

Listen,

Its this,...>"The SIMPLICITY that is IN CHRIST"... Paul told you..

Adam sinned.
We are of the blood of Adam, and are born with a Adamic nature. = By one man's SIN< WE, are all made sinners.

We sin.
You sinned.
Done deal.

That unforgiven SIN, separates us from God.
If that SIN is not dealt with by God before you die.., Jesus says "you'll die IN YOUR Sins".

1.) "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN for us"

2.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME.... ETERNAL.... Sacrifice for Sin"

THAT's THE CROSS.


So, if that has not been applied to you by God, then Hell is the beginning of your eternal end result.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Right without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin- Hebrews 9:22 and many places in the O.T. Even Jesus said the same that His blood was given for the forgiveness of sin. Matthew 26:28- the blood of the New Covenant that provided the forgivenes of our sins that we are reminded of every-time we take communion.

If they understood the law. and the purpose for the sacrifices on the day of atonement they would get this..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL. If you could read with ANY honesty you would see that in each case remission is Aphesis...remission...being made free of sin, made pure. Not forgiveness. This is about an eternal life trumping a temporal one. One law giving us the power to overcome a lower law...so that we walk as Jesus walked. Same life, same power.

But you will continue on in your usual blindness.

there is no forgiveness without remission

if your sins were not remitted or atoned for. your still dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How can we forgive others? That whole way of seeing shows that you have no idea about what God is looking for. And it reveals a carnal motivation.

What about...How can we not forgive people their sins?

You want an excuse to have mercy. Because you are basically a judgmental person. The bible reveals us even we we think we are interpreting it.

we forgive because God forgave us, and offered himself as a ransom for us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

My followers? You mean Jesus followers. What you are promoting comes from Luther...not Jesus.

what you are promoting is from who?

it is certainly Not God..

 

[Episkopos]

what you are promoting is from who?

it is certainly Not God..

If you understood the bible you would understand what I say. But you are indoctrinated into a human version of a religion of an afterlife...rather than understanding what eternal life is.

 

[Behold]

If you understood the bible you would understand what I say. But you are indoctrinated into a human version of a religion of an afterlife...rather than understanding what eternal life is.

Joseph Smith understands you, but real believers, are going to find your "higher walk in Zion" Book of Mormon, to be "what is that stuff".

As its not NT Truth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you understood the bible you would understand what I say. But you are indoctrinated into a human version of a religion of an afterlife...rather than understanding what eternal life is.

I understand the bible.

If anyone here is indoctrinated it is you.

You do not understand the law

You do not understand redemption

You do not understand what it means to be born again.

Leave Rome, they have misled you