Forgiveness vs Atonement

[amigo de christo]

False...of course, and everyone knows this. My version is from the bible...AND from experience. Being born again by the Spirit gives a person an eternal consciousness of who God is and the kind of love and peace He gives to those who walk in Him.

That initial experience of grace is a sample, that the new believer can go to God with and get the full measure of a walk that is ALWAYS in His power, peace, and love.

Now the flesh will react against this... of course.


False. You like to make false claims.


There is only one verse in the bible that says one can believe "on" (epi) Jesus...all the rest are about believing "into" (eis) Christ. The fact that you have no idea about that shows the superficiality of all your statements. You like to judge...but that is your ego looking for some affirmation from all the active religious egos here.




That's called having enough intelligence to make sense.


I think you mean that I withstood the simple.


You don't know of what you speak...whether it is simple or not.


Everything you do is grandstanding for the purpose of virtue signalling...and judging others who are not as "simple" as you are.

I call you out for what you do. It's the same thing over and over. And that gives you the same religious carnal rush. It's like a drug for you.


You need help and a LOT of instruction. In DIRE NEED of instruction. What I see is you crying out in need. But people here will keep giving you what you think you need....more ego fixes.


Gee, that's nice to know. So you wouldn't want to condemn me to death as some here? Or is that just more virtue signalling?


Just dangerous for the carnal religious outer man sin nature.


What's with all the "on" Him??? Jesus is the Saviour of all men...especially those who believe.


That's what you are doing...a do-it-yourself religion. Just open a bible and start naming and claiming whatever your ego desires.


Exactly.

So many indeed have believed in vain. The demons also believe in Jesus...and they tremble.

Epi you lie and accuse a lot my friend . I aint the only one that sees it either . You try and falsey accuse us .
YET YOU have SAID those things and others know you have .

 

[L.A.M.B.]

So now i am gonna ask us before all , The very question a jailor once asked to paul and to silas
SIRS what must i DO to be SAVED . I bet we gonna hear the WORD BELEIVE YE ON JESUS CHRIST in there .
As i know my dear sister lamb does FULLY agree . Sirs what must i do to be saved ........................
And that is what i shall continually remind all they must do and that nothing else CAN Save them .
Now raise those hands up dear sister . The time is late the hour grows very late indeed .
ONE DAY ALL lambs will be HOME and gathered at the FEET OF HE WHO SAVED US .
Thus the message shall remain , TILL that day or our last breath . BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS . BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS
and then learn HIM well in the bible and all sound doctrine .

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Episkopos]

Epi you lie and accuse a lot my friend . I aint the only one that sees it either . You try and falsey accuse us .
YET YOU have SAID those things and others know you have .

I don't lie...I endure all the false accusations from pretenders such as yourself.

After so many years some here should be ready for something beyond the first baby step. But the spoiled ones begin throwing their rattles and rubber duckys at me at ANY suggestion of moving forward in the race. Is it because these know nothing of the Christian walk...or are they just stuck in the first baby step of that walk??? The verdict has not yet come in yet. I think it's a bit of both.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't lie...I endure all the false accusations from pretenders such as yourself.

After so many years some here should be ready for something beyond the first baby step. But the spoiled ones begin throwing their rattles and rubber duckys at me at ANY suggestion of moving forward in the race. Is it because these know nothing of the Christian walk...or are they just stuck in the first baby step of that walk??? The verdict has not yet come in yet. I think it's a bit of both.

talk about self righteousness

yu have been caught in so many lies we have lost count.

when you can not admit your own sin.. you should not be judging others.

 

[Azim]

Can you name someone who says this?

In general, I was thinking about a those who have shared Episkopos is incorrect about his teaching of the "initial grace" which we need to take back to God, to get the "full measure". I was also thinking if his statement is true, is it shown in the life of a believer in Christ? So here was a thought, that resulted in my original sharing about "works".

Lets say we meet someone at a coffee shop, who is not a believer in Christ. Maybe they heard the name of Jesus, and even that this person is the Son of God. However, they never read the Bible before. So we share the gospel and the love of God to them, and the Holy Spirit convicts their heart, leading them to repent and believe in Christ. You give them some advice how to proceed on their new journey, and part ways.

At this point, they've been made known to God's grace for them, which is the result of God's love for all of us. However, how much does God love them? As much as their mother? Or even more? How can it be measured? At this point, doesn't this new believer have to take action and do something? A "work"? They could simply decide professing Jesus Christ is their Lord was enough, and go about their life, never getting a bible or stepping foot in a church. Or, they could start with getting a Bible, reading the gospels for themselves, and going to God to know Him truly. In doing so, God shows them more, and more of His love for them, as they begin to understand the reality the Bible has to show, especially with how fallen we once were.

The above is trying to understand Episkopos' teaching on the most basic level I can, lol. I'm sure there is correction to be made on what I have to share, so looking forward to them.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ephesians 4

King James Version

​

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[Episkopos]

talk about self righteousness

yu have been caught in so many lies we have lost count.

when you can not admit your own sin.. you should not be judging others.

Don't judge me as if I was you. I'm not you and I have nothing in common with you. I'm an unknown quantity with people such as yourself. You refuse to engage in actual bible discussion...and only look for what props up your religious outer man. You have zero interest in either learning anything or engaging in any kind of sound bible exegesis.

All you do is come onto my threads and attack me, and accuse me for preaching Christ. Because I'm not edifying your flesh, as some do here...you say I'm the liar.

The nerve of some people's children.

 

[Ritajanice]

Don't judge me as if I was you. I'm not you and I have nothing in common with you. I'm an unknown quantity with people such as yourself. You refuse to engage in actual bible discussion...and only look for what props up your religious outer man. You have zero interest in either learning anything or engaging in any kind of sound bible exegesis.

All you do is come onto my threads and attack me, and accuse me for preaching Christ. Because I'm not edifying your flesh, as some do here...you say I'm the liar.

The nerve of some people's children.

Look at these words from the Lord, then look at yours....note to myself also, so I’m not singling you out.....I need to take note also....as do a few others, imo/ belief.....

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you

 

[ChristisGod]

Oh right...so you don’t teach, that we must be Born Again, to have that living relationship with God through the Holy Spirit?

notice how that essential part of salvation was bypassed.

 

[Episkopos]

In general, I was thinking about a those who have shared Episkopos is incorrect about his teaching of the "initial grace" which we need to take back to God, to get the "full measure". I was also thinking if his statement is true, is it shown in the life of a believer in Christ? So here was a thought, that resulted in my original sharing about "works".

Lets say we meet someone at a coffee shop, who is not a believer in Christ. Maybe they heard the name of Jesus, and even that this person is the Son of God. However, they never read the Bible before. So we share the gospel and the love of God to them, and the Holy Spirit convicts their heart, leading them to repent and believe in Christ. You give them some advice how to proceed on their new journey, and part ways.

At this point, they've been made known to God's grace for them, which is the result of God's love for all of us. However, how much does God love them? As much as their mother? Or even more? How can it be measured? At this point, doesn't this new believer have to take action and do something? A "work"? They could simply decide professing Jesus Christ is their Lord was enough, and go about their life, never getting a bible or stepping foot in a church. Or, they could start with getting a Bible, reading the gospels for themselves, and going to God to know Him truly. In doing so, God shows them more, and more of His love for them, as they begin to understand the reality the Bible has to show, especially with how fallen we once were.

The above is trying to understand Episkopos' teaching on the most basic level I can, lol. I'm sure there is correction to be made on what I have to share, so looking forward to them.

There is a church culture whereby if one person is advancing, the others get angry and begin accusing that person of not being like them anymore as in...you think you're too good for us now...really the lowest common denominator of carnal men.

In a union, the ones who work harder are often targeted by the majority since they make them look bad by comparison. That is a toxic environment for a believer in Christ..as are many churches.

Joseph was thrown into a well by his brothers...and Jeremiah was too. One should expect that carnal men will resist the Spirit.

I have gone to the trouble of writing a book, and have done a number of podcasts...so that what the Lord has taught me is CLEARLY laid out. The only thing that has been laid out by my accusers is their indoctrination...no exegesis.

PS..My book was rated by a professional rating service specializing in the bible. They said that although my doctrine was not so orthodox...(as in no mention of LGBTQ issues) that my bible exegesis was sound. When I bring those teachings here..it's as if I have to join a noisy, uninformed, opinionated, and generally pessimistic environment that is only looking for self-affirmation...not truth.

 

[marks]

Ephesians 4​

​

King James Version​

​

​

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

If only we would all learn and follow this passage!!

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In general, I was thinking about a those who have shared Episkopos is incorrect about his teaching of the "initial grace" which we need to take back to God, to get the "full measure". I was also thinking if his statement is true, is it shown in the life of a believer in Christ? So here was a thought, that resulted in my original sharing about "works".

Lets say we meet someone at a coffee shop, who is not a believer in Christ. Maybe they heard the name of Jesus, and even that this person is the Son of God. However, they never read the Bible before. So we share the gospel and the love of God to them, and the Holy Spirit convicts their heart, leading them to repent and believe in Christ. You give them some advice how to proceed on their new journey, and part ways.

At this point, they've been made known to God's grace for them, which is the result of God's love for all of us. However, how much does God love them? As much as their mother? Or even more? How can it be measured? At this point, doesn't this new believer have to take action and do something? A "work"? They could simply decide professing Jesus Christ is their Lord was enough, and go about their life, never getting a bible or stepping foot in a church. Or, they could start with getting a Bible, reading the gospels for themselves, and going to God to know Him truly. In doing so, God shows them more, and more of His love for them, as they begin to understand the reality the Bible has to show, especially with how fallen we once were.

The above is trying to understand Episkopos' teaching on the most basic level I can, lol. I'm sure there is correction to be made on what I have to share, so looking forward to them.

the problem with this, is it assumes one MUST do those works, or get to know Jesus in a better way if they want to make it to heaven.

If they truly believed in Jesus and truly recieved his grace,

1. they were given the power to become a child of God (john 1: 12)

2. They have been born again (john 3) in which case, they have Gods promise they will never perish, and they have eternal life

3. They, who were dead, have been made alive in Christ, and given EVERY spiritual blessing under heaven

4. They have been justified freely

5. They have been perfected forever (heb 10: 14)

6. They have overcome the world (1 John 5: 4)

7. They have been baptized into Christ and his death (rom 6 and gal 3) they have been baptized into his body (1 cor 12)

I can go on and on.. these are things the bible says he would have, if he truly had faith

now it is up to the person to allow God to sanctify him, to grow him to become more like christ. and produce fruit.. he will earn reward if he does this

but he does not do work to maintain or gain his salvation like epi is trying to say.. that is the same as putting them under law.. there really is no difference.

 

[Lizbeth]

Amen. I hope you are seeing how a deposit in our spirits...a sample of grace...is meant to take us to God in order to WIN Christ in our souls. We are to work out our own (soul) salvation with fear and trembling. I think most indoctrinated people HATE the idea of fearing God, seeking God, beseeching God...just look at all the comments of people when I suggest that the first step in a race doesn't qualify a person as a finisher of the race...or even running in it.

We are to receive instruction in righteousness to the saving of the soul.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


Amen. We are to taste of the Lord's goodness..AND GO TO Him...for His fulness of grace. To be filled with His fullness.

Why I am spoken against here is because some people hate the idea that all sufficiency is NOT found IN THEM...but rather in God (where that fullness belongs) People hate seeking God...that's the truth of it. But we are saved to do that very thing... to know God and walk with Him and in Him.

So then people will NOT go to God but rather claim to be rich and in need of nothing...based on an overblown sample experience that people claim justifies them. As in...I already ate as much as I could from the sample tray. But to actually be known of God and be with Him....is the furthest thing from their hearts and minds. To sell all to possess the field? No way, Jose.

I can't agree with your "overblown sample" analogy. That is downplaying and scoffing at the power of God unto salvation. Someone who has come to faith and received the earnest of the Spirit, were they to die just seconds later without any opportunity to do anything about it, would be saved and inherit eternal life. Thief on the cross, for example, had no time to produce any fruits, other than repentance.

 

[Episkopos]

To my detractors... Find a verse in the bible that sounds something like this "If any man comes to you telling you that a born again person should seek the Lord for a full measure of grace at the throne of grace, let him be anathema"

That's what some here are basically saying to me. If you can't find your motivation in the bible...then get off my case! Look to your own carnal nature getting in the way of any kind of growth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't judge me as if I was you. I'm not you and I have nothing in common with you. I'm an unknown quantity with people such as yourself. You refuse to engage in actual bible discussion...and only look for what props up your religious outer man. You have zero interest in either learning anything or engaging in any kind of sound bible exegesis.

All you do is come onto my threads and attack me, and accuse me for preaching Christ. Because I'm not edifying your flesh, as some do here...you say I'm the liar.

The nerve of some people's children.

Lol

discuss john 3 with us

You do not discuss the word.. nonsense.

And you laid about people almost every day and refuse to repent even though you have been show your lies about them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To my detractors... Find a verse in the bible that sounds something like this "If any man comes to you telling you that a born again person should seek the Lord for a full measure of grace at the throne of grace, let him be anathema"

That's what some here are basically saying to me. If you can't find your motivation in the bible...then get off my case! Look to your own carnal nature getting in the way of any kind of growth.

Show me one verse where Jesus or paul said those words.

Paul said anyone who does not teach his gospel should be anathema..

so by practice. He said just as you claim.

 

[Episkopos]

Lol

discuss john 3 with us

You do not discuss the word.. nonsense.

And you laid about people almost every day and refuse to repent even though you have been show your lies about them.

OK. Let's do that. I'll start a thread...on John 3: An exegesis...that must be explained in a scholarly way....no indoctrination or vain repetitions, grandstanding, or hypnotic suggestions to get religious carnal agreements from indoctrinated people.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK. Let's do that. I'll start a thread...on John 3: An exegesis...that must be explained in a scholarly way....no indoctrination or vain repetitions, grandstanding, or hypnotic suggestions to get religious carnal agreements from indoctrinated people.

You mean after all these years. Your finally going to do it?

ps indoctrination? I just read what is written and take it for what it says.. nothign else..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK. Let's do that. I'll start a thread...on John 3: An exegesis...that must be explained in a scholarly way....no indoctrination or vain repetitions, grandstanding, or hypnotic suggestions to get religious carnal agreements from indoctrinated people.

Ps. No video. Write the passage down, and explain in your own words what it means..