Forgiveness

[Pet]

I'm thinking that sometimes, being forgiven first triggers the change of heart. And a change of heart triggers a change of behavior.

Definitely. Cyclical-A divine exchange.

 

[Pet]

The word used in the NT that's translated " to repent", μετανοέω, literally means "to change your mind". Or your heart.

What does "repent" mean to you in the context of forgiving and being forgiven?

Turn about. Stop doing it. And sorry goes a long way ;)

 

[Pet]

:/

 

[Lambano]

Turn about. Stop doing it.

There's actually a different word for that. In Greek ἐπιστρέφω, "epistrepho"; in Hebrew, שׁוּב "shub". The latter carries the sense of "return", like sheep that have wandered off.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I think the prayer itself shows that He did.

No the pray shows that he loved them, yes he wanted them saved but they had to repent, just as you and I had to repent before we could be forgiven.

 

[Lambano]

No the pray shows that he loved them, yes he wanted them saved but they had to repent, just as you and I had to repent before we could be forgiven.

Sigh. Do you stay repented-up on every trespass you do against God? Every lustful thought, every hint of pride and self-righteousness, every bit of covetousness, every time you passed up a chance to do good for others, every time you were self-centered, every time you failed to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength? If you miss one trespass, does that break the relationship with God and you're going to Hell? I've heard people advocating this. That's neurotic.

Should we treat others like that? Keep score, and break off the relationship each time until they say, "sorry" and make amends?

 

[Windmill Charge]

Sigh. Do you stay repented-up on every trespass you do against God? Every lustful thought, every hint of pride and self-righteousness, every bit of covetousness, every time you passed up a chance to do good for others, every time you were self-centered, every time you failed to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength? If you miss one trespass, does that break the relationship with God and you're going to Hell? I've heard people advocating this. That's neurotic.

Should we treat others like that? Keep score, and break off the relationship each time until they say, "sorry" and make amends?

Why such a child like simple approach.
Jesus forgave All your sins and All my sins and yes when I pray I will acknowledge that I still sin and need forgiveness.

As for dealing with people. Luke 17:3 tells us to tell the person who has offended us, and if they repent forgive them.

The next accusation that usually follows is about staying bitter because they didn't repent.
Well one deals with that just as Jesus did on the cross.
One prays for them, telling God about it, about them, about ones feelings etc and one submits to God for him to deal with the offender and to deal with ones feelings as one continues to pray for there good.

 

[Lambano]

Jesus forgave All your sins and All my sins

 

[Dash RipRock]

Elevation worship

Man, they sure have some false doctrine tucked away in otherwise nice sounding "worship" songs.

 

[Pet]

Sigh. Do you stay repented-up on every trespass you do against God? Every lustful thought, every hint of pride and self-righteousness, every bit of covetousness, every time you passed up a chance to do good for others, every time you were self-centered, every time you failed to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength? If you miss one trespass, does that break the relationship with God and you're going to Hell? I've heard people advocating this. That's neurotic.

Should we treat others like that? Keep score, and break off the relationship each time until they say, "sorry" and make amends?

The trespasses against God lessen ( should), and yes, we repent, right up until we're delivered of them.
What does repent mean to you?

 

[Lambano]

What does repent mean to you?

If you don't pent right the first time, you have to re-pent.

(That was the punch line of a really stupid joke most of you have already heard.)

 

[Lambano]

What does repent mean to you?

The word literally means "to change your mind". Or to have a change of heart.

Consistent with this meaning, KJV translates the Hebrew נָחַם ("nacham") as "repent" in Exodus 32:14 ("And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people") and Genesis 6:6 ("And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart"). God repented????? It's disconcerting enough to hear that He changed His mind.

From a human standpoint, a change of mind or change of heart eventually shows up in a change of behavior. So, as John the Methodist (excuse me, Baptist) says, "Therefore produce fruit consistent with repentance." -Matthew 3:8 NASB.

 

[Lambano]

"Repentance isn't change; it's God's methodology for changing YOU. Repentance is agreeing with God about who God is, who you are, what you've done, and what needs to change." -Steve Brown

I'm not sure I agree with this definition. The author comes from the Calvinist position (though he's more kind-hearted and reasonable than what I usually see on internet forums). Believing in "Total Depravity", the position assumes that we cannot change ourselves; God has to change us. But I see us changing ourselves at times in the arena of human interpersonal relationships (per the OP), so who's responsible for changing what? But it's thought provoking.

 

[Dash RipRock]

The word literally means "to change your mind". Or to have a change of heart.

And IF one changes their mind they stop engaging in sinful behavior

As in they lay down the crack pipe

 

[Seeding Loving]

.

The Greek word - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ means literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,

to fully, completely Pardon as to Absolve, Exonerate, Forgive “ fully give freedom. “ and the truth is, this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is only used 17 total times in the entire manuscripts of the N.T.

yet, we notice in the K.J.V translation the word forgive is used 69 total times
and we notice in the Catholic D.R.B. translation the word forgive is used 62 total times

forgive _____ 28 times, K.J.V / 26 times Catholic D.R.B.
forgiven _____ 24 K.J.V times, / 25 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgave _____ 8 K.J.V times, / 4 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiveness _____ 6 K.J.V times, / 3 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiving _____ 2 K.J.V times, / 3 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiveth _____ 1 K.J.V times, / 1 times, Catholic D.R.B.


FORGIVE = 69 total times - K.J.V / 62 total times - Catholic D.R.B.

In the Greek manuscripts - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ is only used 17 total times,

the question is why and what does this mean in context and what are the other Greek words used that the translators are using - as
“ forgive “ ?...................... In fact, this his Greek word - “” “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ “” never, ever, ever APPLIES nor APPEARS in the manuscripts - under any other circumstances in all of the approX other 50 verses where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations

in the manuscripts…. after we repent and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we receive FORGIVENESS, PARDONING, ABSOLVING, EXONERATION of sins. God whom has already fully forgiven and pardoned, PARDONED our sins, this pardon and forgiveness was already done 2000 years ago on the cross by shedding his blood.

It is ONLY in this context that this Greek word is used

and ALSO in the applied anointing to the context of the broken and repentant sinner believing as a sinner in repentance and receiving the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins that was already given and completed 2000 years ago on the cross by the blood sacrifice……

this pardon and forgiveness was already done 2000 years ago by shedding of blood on the cross, once we receive this knowledge and repent we are ….. sanctified by faith in his offering of salvation and receive “ aphiēmi - ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Never is this Greek word used in the manuscripts outside of the context of God forgiving sins by the mentioning of his shed blood on the cross and the Spirit Holy. water, spirit, blood

NEVER ONCE

Then another Greek word is used where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations

this word is - - Χαρίζομαι - charizomai - meaning = To grant as a favor, that is, gratuitously, in kindness, pardon or rescue: - deliver, (frankly) forgive, (freely) give, grant

- This Greek word - “ Χαρίζομαι “ forgive “ in the Bible - is only applied to mankind receiving forgiveness from other mankind - ------ forgiveness as - mankind to mankind –not from God

Χαρίζομαι - charizomai is not a word that is used as God forgiving but only used in the context of man forgiving man.

The third Greek word in the manuscripts is only used as referring to sin as - to put sin away - to give up or let sin go
ἀφίημι - aphiēmi - meaning = To send forth - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, put away. yield up sin or to let go - or put away -

meaning = Gods forgiveness through the water, spirit and blood on the cross - a finished work - is - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ used only 17 total times in the manuscripts to refer to God forgiving sins through the Spirit, Water and the Blood.

The rest of the other instance where we see forgive in the manuscripts are not the same meaning nor the same word.

Roman Catholics simply do not have manuscripts for their claims nor faith concerning a priest absolving sins- this Greek word is not the same word as forgiveness from God but it is the Greek word meaning ---- to put sin away - to give up or let sin go ἀφίημι - aphiēmi - meaning = To send forth - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, put away. yield up sin or to let go - or put away -

it is also used to say put away your husband or wife - or Jesus put away or gave up his spirit -

- also used to say Peter “ let go the nets / loosened the nets while fishing

it is never ever referring to God forgiving sins - not even one single time.

concerning a priest or another brother or sister absolving sins- this Greek word is ---- to put sin away - to stop sinning - to give up or let sin go. we assist in helping other " put away " - " let loose " - " yield up " our sins... but only God forgives...
ἀφίημι - aphiēmi -

THIS IS NOT “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / “ meaning literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,

never is another man given any ability to “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / “ any sin in the manuscripts.

 

[quietthinker]

.

The Greek word - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ means literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,

to fully, completely Pardon as to Absolve, Exonerate, Forgive “ fully give freedom. “ and the truth is, this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is only used 17 total times in the entire manuscripts of the N.T.

yet, we notice in the K.J.V translation the word forgive is used 69 total times
and we notice in the Catholic D.R.B. translation the word forgive is used 62 total times

forgive _____ 28 times, K.J.V / 26 times Catholic D.R.B.
forgiven _____ 24 K.J.V times, / 25 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgave _____ 8 K.J.V times, / 4 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiveness _____ 6 K.J.V times, / 3 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiving _____ 2 K.J.V times, / 3 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiveth _____ 1 K.J.V times, / 1 times, Catholic D.R.B.


FORGIVE = 69 total times - K.J.V / 62 total times - Catholic D.R.B.

In the Greek manuscripts - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ is only used 17 total times,

the question is why and what does this mean in context and what are the other Greek words used that the translators are using - as
“ forgive “ ?...................... In fact, this his Greek word - “” “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ “” never, ever, ever APPLIES nor APPEARS in the manuscripts - under any other circumstances in all of the approX other 50 verses where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations

in the manuscripts…. after we repent and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we receive FORGIVENESS, PARDONING, ABSOLVING, EXONERATION of sins. God whom has already fully forgiven and pardoned, PARDONED our sins, this pardon and forgiveness was already done 2000 years ago on the cross by shedding his blood.

It is ONLY in this context that this Greek word is used

and ALSO in the applied anointing to the context of the broken and repentant sinner believing as a sinner in repentance and receiving the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins that was already given and completed 2000 years ago on the cross by the blood sacrifice……

this pardon and forgiveness was already done 2000 years ago by shedding of blood on the cross, once we receive this knowledge and repent we are ….. sanctified by faith in his offering of salvation and receive “ aphiēmi - ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Never is this Greek word used in the manuscripts outside of the context of God forgiving sins by the mentioning of his shed blood on the cross and the Spirit Holy. water, spirit, blood

NEVER ONCE

Then another Greek word is used where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations

this word is - - Χαρίζομαι - charizomai - meaning = To grant as a favor, that is, gratuitously, in kindness, pardon or rescue: - deliver, (frankly) forgive, (freely) give, grant

- This Greek word - “ Χαρίζομαι “ forgive “ in the Bible - is only applied to mankind receiving forgiveness from other mankind - ------ forgiveness as - mankind to mankind –not from God

Χαρίζομαι - charizomai is not a word that is used as God forgiving but only used in the context of man forgiving man.

The third Greek word in the manuscripts is only used as referring to sin as - to put sin away - to give up or let sin go
ἀφίημι - aphiēmi - meaning = To send forth - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, put away. yield up sin or to let go - or put away -

meaning = Gods forgiveness through the water, spirit and blood on the cross - a finished work - is - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ used only 17 total times in the manuscripts to refer to God forgiving sins through the Spirit, Water and the Blood.

The rest of the other instance where we see forgive in the manuscripts are not the same meaning nor the same word.

Roman Catholics simply do not have manuscripts for their claims nor faith concerning a priest absolving sins- this Greek word is not the same word as forgiveness from God but it is the Greek word meaning ---- to put sin away - to give up or let sin go ἀφίημι - aphiēmi - meaning = To send forth - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, put away. yield up sin or to let go - or put away -

it is also used to say put away your husband or wife - or Jesus put away or gave up his spirit -

- also used to say Peter “ let go the nets / loosened the nets while fishing

it is never ever referring to God forgiving sins - not even one single time.

concerning a priest or another brother or sister absolving sins- this Greek word is ---- to put sin away - to stop sinning - to give up or let sin go. we assist in helping other " put away " - " let loose " - " yield up " our sins... but only God forgives...
ἀφίημι - aphiēmi -

THIS IS NOT “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / “ meaning literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,

never is another man given any ability to “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / “ any sin in the manuscripts.

 

[Seeding Loving]

.

Just to fully explain and demonstrate with evidence directly from the Manuscripts

- “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ means literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,

to fully, completely Pardon as to Absolve, Exonerate, Forgive “ fully give freedom. “ this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is only used 17 total times in the entire manuscripts of the New Testament


Here are the 17 total times this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is used in the manuscripts,


Mat 26:28 my blood of the new testament, ….. is shed for many, for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Mar 1:4 John preached…….. baptism of repentance for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Mar 3:29 blaspheme the Spirit Of The Holy never has “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ in danger of eternal damnation:

Luk 1:77 Jesus gives………. knowledge of salvation ……… by the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of their sins;

Luk 3:3 { John the Baptist } ……… preaching the baptism of repentance for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Luk 4:18 to preach “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ to the captives - to set at “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ the broken

Luk 24:47 ……. repentance and “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins should be preached in his name

Act 2:38 Repent, and be baptized ……in the name of Jesus Christ for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Act 5:31 Jesus . …… Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Act 10:43 whosoever believeth in him shall receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Act 13:38 { Jesus } ……. this man is preached unto you the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins:

Act 26:18 that they may receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins; and inheritance ….. sanctified by faith that is in me.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins

Col 1:14 { in Jesus } we have redemption through his blood, even the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Heb 9:22 and without shedding of blood is no “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Heb 10:18 Now where “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins; of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

all of these passages are ONLY - ONLY centered around Gods shed blood and the work of God through repentance and the repentant sinner. This Greek word never, ever - never APPLIES nor APPEARS in the manuscripts - under any other circumstances in all of the approximately other 50 + verses where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations


The Roman Catholic Church has applied the Greek word “ ἀφίημι - aphiēmi “ to the idea of a Priest forgiving sin

but the Greek word “ ἀφίημι - aphiēmi “ means= To send forth, to put away - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, yield up sin........ God has already Pardoned and Forgiven, Absolved, Exonerated “ ἄφεσις - aphesis \ forgiveness “ of sins.

17 total times this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is used in the manuscripts and never is this word used to indicate a human forgiveness - nor a human assisting another human in forgiveness.

Here is the Original message of the Greek manuscript for - Joh 20:23

:23

αν IF - τινων WHOM - αφητε YEILDING UP / PUTING AWAY - τας THAT

- αμαρτιας OF SIN - αφιενται IS PUT AWAY / IS YEILDED UP - αυτοις UNTO THEM -

αν IF - τινων WHOM - κρατητε KEEPS / HOLDS - κεκρατηνται ARE KEPT / ARE HELD


IF WHOM YEILDING UP / PUTING AWAY THAT OF SIN IS PUT AWAY / IS YEILDED UP UNTO THEM -

IF WHOM KEEPS / HOLDS ARE KEPT / HELD​

 

[Dan Clarkston]

What does repent mean to you?

 

[GodsGrace]

.

Just to fully explain and demonstrate with evidence directly from the Manuscripts

- “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ means literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,

to fully, completely Pardon as to Absolve, Exonerate, Forgive “ fully give freedom. “ this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is only used 17 total times in the entire manuscripts of the New Testament


Here are the 17 total times this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is used in the manuscripts,


Mat 26:28 my blood of the new testament, ….. is shed for many, for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Mar 1:4 John preached…….. baptism of repentance for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Mar 3:29 blaspheme the Spirit Of The Holy never has “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ in danger of eternal damnation:

Luk 1:77 Jesus gives………. knowledge of salvation ……… by the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of their sins;

Luk 3:3 { John the Baptist } ……… preaching the baptism of repentance for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Luk 4:18 to preach “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ to the captives - to set at “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ the broken

Luk 24:47 ……. repentance and “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins should be preached in his name

Act 2:38 Repent, and be baptized ……in the name of Jesus Christ for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Act 5:31 Jesus . …… Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Act 10:43 whosoever believeth in him shall receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Act 13:38 { Jesus } ……. this man is preached unto you the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins:

Act 26:18 that they may receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins; and inheritance ….. sanctified by faith that is in me.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins

Col 1:14 { in Jesus } we have redemption through his blood, even the “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins.

Heb 9:22 and without shedding of blood is no “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins;

Heb 10:18 Now where “ ἄφεσις \ forgivness “ of sins; of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

all of these passages are ONLY - ONLY centered around Gods shed blood and the work of God through repentance and the repentant sinner. This Greek word never, ever - never APPLIES nor APPEARS in the manuscripts - under any other circumstances in all of the approximately other 50 + verses where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations


The Roman Catholic Church has applied the Greek word “ ἀφίημι - aphiēmi “ to the idea of a Priest forgiving sin

but the Greek word “ ἀφίημι - aphiēmi “ means= To send forth, to put away - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, yield up sin........ God has already Pardoned and Forgiven, Absolved, Exonerated “ ἄφεσις - aphesis \ forgiveness “ of sins.

17 total times this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is used in the manuscripts and never is this word used to indicate a human forgiveness - nor a human assisting another human in forgiveness.

Here is the Original message of the Greek manuscript for - Joh 20:23

:23

αν IF - τινων WHOM - αφητε YEILDING UP / PUTING AWAY - τας THAT

- αμαρτιας OF SIN - αφιενται IS PUT AWAY / IS YEILDED UP - αυτοις UNTO THEM -

αν IF - τινων WHOM - κρατητε KEEPS / HOLDS - κεκρατηνται ARE KEPT / ARE HELD


IF WHOM YEILDING UP / PUTING AWAY THAT OF SIN IS PUT AWAY / IS YEILDED UP UNTO THEM -

IF WHOM KEEPS / HOLDS ARE KEPT / HELD​

John 20:23 has always interested me.
As you might know,,,,confessing to a priest does no imply that the priest is forgiving the sin.
He is just stating that the sin is absolved - forgiven.

At times a priest may refuse to forgive a sin, or I should say, declare it to be unforgiven...,but this is because
he knows that the person is not truly sorry - or - has the intent to commit it again.

Would you care to post John 20:23 in a way that is more understandable but still from the Greek?