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Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by BOWnQUIVER, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. BOWnQUIVER

    BOWnQUIVER Active Member

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    There ya go again. The guy never asked about being saved. He asked about attaining eternal life
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    What's the difference?
     
  3. BOWnQUIVER

    BOWnQUIVER Active Member

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    GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

    Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

    ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

    Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

    REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

    Faith and the commandments. “Many” will say you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14
     
  4. BOWnQUIVER

    BOWnQUIVER Active Member

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    MATTHEW 19 [16]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Please dont tell me Jesus lied to him to make a point
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Once faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    We don't any longer look to a set of do's and don'ts and attempt to keep them, in order to obtain, or even maintain, our salvation.

    We have received the Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14) and the fruit of the Spirit is love; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23). So we cannot violate any just law as long as we abide in Christ and bear the fruit of the Spirit.

    Thus, there is a righteousness of God apart from the law for those who believe; that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

    We do not obtain this righteousness by attempting to obey the requirement; but we obtain it in a roundabout way....by placing our faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14), by receiving His love (Romans 5:5) and by walking according to it. For love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

    We obtain this righteousness by bearing it as fruit; not by self-effort.

    Have you ever seen a tree striving to bear fruit? Going, "aargghh! I've gotta bear fruit..."

    No. A tree bears fruit simply by being connected to the ground wherein resides nutrients that are drawn up from the roots into the branches so that fruit is produced naturally through a process of distributing the nutrients.

    We are branches in the vine; Jesus is the vine. We bear fruit; that is, we live righteously, by staying connected to the vine.

    It is not hard. His yoke is easy, and His burden is light (Matthew 11:30).
     
  6. theophilus

    theophilus Well-Known Member

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    There are some who profess to be saved when they are not. Perhaps this servant was one of them.

    Being saved and having eternal life are the same thing. A person who is saved will show that salvation in what he does. That is the point Jesus was making in what he said to him.
     
  7. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE="BOWnQUIVER, post: 800486, member: 8904"]MATTHEW 19 [16]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Please dont tell me Jesus lied to him to make a point[/QUOTE

    I've asked many "Christians" if they would DO what JESUS SAYS TO DO - "Will YOU OBEY JESUS"....

    So far, almost no one says yes, and almost all say no.
     
  8. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    I don't believe that Joseph....almost no one says yes? And almost all say no?
    Even if they believe they are obeying Jesus then that is between them and the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth.
    I really don't care for the way you continuously claim that there are hardly any true Christians....for one the origin of the word christian was meant to slander Jesus followers back in the day. It means a slave to Christ....and it did not refer to a servant as Jesus spoke of....
    But what we truly should be known as is children of God. Once saved we are born again and by adoption through the blood of Jesus we become sons and daughters and joint heirs to the throne of God.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  9. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    You are not required to believe that.
     
  10. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Glad you agree....and as you know I am not shy when I read something I perceive as a false exaggeration of reality. :rolleyes:
    Have a blessed day.:)
     
  11. BOWnQUIVER

    BOWnQUIVER Active Member

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    Whats the Word say?

    LUKE 12 [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.[32] FEAR NOT, LITTLE FLOCK; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

    only a little flock will enter the kingdom {saved}

    MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

    few there be that find it

    MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] MANY WILL SAY to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

    In footnotes of the KJB, iniquity equals lawlessness. You can find this in 2 THES. 2 verse 7. And the many have come in the name of JESUS saying we need not keep GODS 10 commandments.

    LUKE 13 [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: FOR MANY, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

    Jesus himself tells us that “the many” will not enter the Kingdom. And he explains why. They are workers of iniquity. They do not keep Gods law. HIS 10 commandments.

    ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, BROKEN THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, AND FEW MEN LEFT.

    Well, here we are. The BOTTOM LINE. The DAY OF THE LORD (when Christ returns) and again the Word says that only a few will be saved to the kingdom.

    LEV.24 [8] EVERY SABBATH he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by AN EVERLASTING COVENANT.

    Is this the everlasting covenant that they broke?

    JEREMIAH 16 [19] O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, THE GENTILES shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

    In Jeremiah we find what will happen to most gentiles when Jesus returns.
     
  12. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Two thirds of mankind will fall, so that leaves a third who will enter heaven.
    To quote scripture two thirds of mankind will perish...and one third will remain with Him. So to use the message that Jesus was telling His disciples is true but broaden your horizon....there are currently almost 10 billion people on the earth today. The earth cannot sustain this many inhabitants at this rate. So what is one third of nearly 10 billion?
    Zechariah 13:8 And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it.
    The Shepherd Struck, the Sheep Scattered
    7Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the man who is My Companion, declares the LORD of Hosts. Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn My hand against the little ones. 8And in all the land,” declares the LORD, “two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’”…
    Zechariah 11:6-9
    For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them
    Pulpit Commentary
    Verse 8. - In all the land; i.e. Palestine, the country in which the good Shepherd tended his flock (ch. 11.), and which is a figure of the kingdom of God (comp. Zechariah 12:12; Zechariah 14:9, 10). Two parts therein shall be cut off and die; literally, the mouth, i.e. the portion of two, as Deuteronomy 21:17; 2 Kings 2:9, where it denotes the double portion inherited by the firstborn. The inheritance is divided into three portions, of which two parts are given over to death. Compare a similar allotment in the case of the Moabites (2 Samuel 8:2). The doomed portion is supposed to represent the multitudes who perished at the siege of Jerusalem. This may be; but by analogy it stands for those who shall not accept the Messiah or be purified by suffering, even as Christ said, "Many are called, but few chosen" (Matthew 20:16; comp. Matthew 3:12). The third. This third part represents the faithful among the Jews (Romans 11:5), and the Christian Church gathered out of all nations (comp. Isaiah 6:13; and especially Ezekiel 5:2, 12).
     
  13. BOWnQUIVER

    BOWnQUIVER Active Member

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    Could you show me scripture that says they go to heaven?

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    JOHN 7 [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

    I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there
     
  14. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    After the 1000 year millennium and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit and Jesus establishes a new heaven and a new earth.
    But if you read the scriptures in the commentary and cross reference them you will get the message.
     
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  15. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    In ... Scripture, where is it written we go to the very THRONE OF GRACE to receive HELP TODAY, in any time of need?
    I don't remember the context, or the specifics.
     
  16. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    I don't have time right but you can look it up can't you?
    I will try to get back with you later on it.
     
  17. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    That is what being saved is all about...we are saved from the curse of sin and death and eternal damnation.
     
  18. BOWnQUIVER

    BOWnQUIVER Active Member

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    We are "saved" to the kingdom. The 1000yr period of rest

    Revelation 12:9-10 (KJV)
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    Then at the Great White. Not saved, but judged by their works

    JOHN 5 [28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; AND THEY THAT HAVE DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION. [30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
     
  19. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Saved from destruction, saved from peril,
    Saved for purpose, saved for future blessing.
     
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  20. theophilus

    theophilus Well-Known Member

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    We are saved for all eternity. The thousand year kingdom is the first part, then we live eternally on the new earth. The Great White Throne judgment is only for those who are not saved.

    Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
    Revelation 20:11-15 ESV

    It is only the dead who will be judged. Those who are saved will not be dead for two reasons. The first is that our bodies will have been resurrected before this event takes place. The second is before we are saved we are spiritually dead but at salvation we become spiritually alive.

    Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
    John 5:24 ESV

    When the judgment takes place the saved will be alive both spiritually and physically. Those who are judged will have died physically and in the lake of fire they will experience the second death.

    (There is one exception to that last statement. When Christ returns the beast and the false prophet will experience the second death without undergoing the first.

    And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
    Revelation 19:20 ESV

    In this sense they are like the believers who are alive when the rapture takes place.)
     
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